BJean

You make extreme comments and then when someone goes off on a tangent in a reply, you feign innocence. Yeah, you're innocent of everything I've accused you of. Okay let's start over. You hate paying taxes, but only when it's for something you like. Did I get that right? You don't like George Bush, you didn't vote for him, but you're beholding to him for keeping your body from being blown away by a terrorist. Did I get that right? You think it is fair to call the current bill that has been passed "Obamacare" and you equate it to socialism. Am I wrong about that? You voted to keep gay marriage legal in your state but we shouldn't think badly of you because you have gays in your family. Is that about it? I'm curious, in light of what loserbob just said. If you were passing out food to people who thought they needed food, but one of them was smoking a cigarette, would you deny them that food? Just curious... P.S. I'm pretty sure you called it "obamacare" on more than one occasion but I am not willing to spend my time tracking it down. So you can score one for you, if you think that it's not what you said.

I've been saying for a long time that we have more to fear from the right wing extremists in this country than the terrorists from other countries.

"Socialized insurance administration? Well if the government pays the ins. and the ins. pays the doctors, then in turn, the government is paying the doctors, so.... socialized medicine again. Maybe not complete socialized medicine, because most hospitals are government ran yet, but it's still pretty much socialized medicine. Your calling Medicare socialized medicine, and your advocating for medicare for all, doesn't that mean socialized medicine for all?" ariscus See what I'm saying kartman? It's a fraud perpetrated on Americans to their detriment. I just want to yell, "Snap out of it!" and get them to listen to reason. But I gotta tell ya, Limbaugh, Palin, Beck and those buggers who keep the fear alive and well-fed, are way more convincing than you or I.

I'm glad you like California livin' airiscus. Some of my best friends are Californians. They're not gay though, god forbid. And to be truthful I am pretty shocked that you voted to keep gay marriages legal. Nothing like having one in the family to sway one's opinion, right? You are one of the ones who has made it personal by calling it "Obamacare" and your hyprocisy is showing. Damn and I said I wasn't going to engage with you anymore. My bad. You're real good at getting me to rant. So if you're tired of my long-winded tirades, don't address your comments to me, um kay?

kartman it may not be the plan that most Americans want, but it is the plan that they need. Most Americans seem to still believe the stigma that was planted in their brains for years about "socialized" medicine. Most of them don't understand the possibilities that a universal health care system represents. All they know is what they've been told and they've been told nothing but horror stories. People generally are opposed to change. They like to keep the status quo. It's what is familiar to them, they understand it and it takes no work on their part. But most Americans know that the system we've had for so long, sucks eggs. And now they're scared of the new plan coming out of Washington because they don't understand it. They think it will take work on their part. They think that it is going to force them to pay lots more taxes. They just fear change, period. And with the right wing extremists yelling death panels and the rest, they're running around like chickens with their heads cut off. (Or chicken Little screaming "the sky is falling") But the thing that is the most horrible is how they've made this personal. It's the right wing against the president. President Obama is evil incarnate. There has not been one president in my lifetime, which is considerable, who has done more to cross party lines and try to be a fair and moderate representative of the people. But the Republican crazies, the extremists, the birthers and Sarah Palin all still hate Obama and blame him and perhaps the Speaker of the House for things that have not happened and will never happen. And they scream it at the top of their lungs. It is just plain disgusting and embarrassing. Oh and stupid. Did I mention stupid? Very, very stupid.

airbus: "California does have state taxes, and we also pay property tax. So things are little different tax wise here, believe it or not." I've lived in Arizona where we were taxed up the wazoo and Virginia where we had similar tax and red tape and Montreal where, by golly, we had excellent health care, and Florida where the taxes weren't too bad but the state government sucked, and Oklahoma that turned out to just be posers with high insurance, Texas well, we all know about Texas and their main politician who thinks it's clever to speak of cessation from the union (reminds me of the Quebequois) and other places that have helped form my experience and knowledge base about taxes and the benefits from paying taxes. You choose to live in California, right? How's that working for ya? Are you one of those friendly folks who voted to stop gay marriage?

I'm not arguing, you understand. But you are wrong about my role in politics and government. And you are wrong about a lot of things. You speak of my use of "talking points" but your use of them is what prompted my anti-tax rant. So I understand now. If YOU think it is important, you don't mind paying taxes for it. But since YOU have a good health care plan (for why else would you be arguing the way you have been against what is it you call it? "Obamacare") since YOU have a decent health plan, YOU don't think that the system needs to be changed. How very open-minded, thoughtful and generous of spirit. Not.

Easy to say that you aren't a big fan of Bush now that the proof of his disasterous presidency has become so public. That and after the disasterous elections that took the Republicans out of control of not only the presidency but the House and Senate. When Bush was president the Republicans had control most of the time. The current political climate and bad economy and housing bubble that burst and all the rest happened because of that 8 years. You just can't change that. Even when you say you didn't support it, that doesn't change it. I don't feel sorry for Republicans at all. They are reaping what they have sown. And the constant effort to re-write history makes them vulnerable in November. How much do you think Americans can take? The Democratic party isn't perfect. They certainly have their stinkers that deserve scorn. But as a whole, the Replicans do not have the best interests of the United States in their hearts. There is no room in their hearts because of the self-love that consumes them. Sorry, but after the many years I've spent in politics, that's the way I see it. You can stay delusional as long as you want. It won't affect me and I'm done with arguing with you. It is a worthless waste of my time.

ariscus so now you want to bring up state taxes and bitch about that? Bitching about the United States government and the Internal Revenue Service isn't enough for you? Would you feel a whole lot better about yourself if we did away with public schools (yeah, you probably home school), the police department, the health department, the fire department, the water department, city government, help for funding colleges, and each and everything that makes this country the best country on earth? Why don't you live in the U.K. where you'd be paying a heckofa lot more in taxes? Or a South African country where you might not have clean water? Where do you want to start cutting - oh yeah - it's medical care, right? You like the system we had that politicians and intelligent people have been trying to change for 50 years because it is so lousy. Great. We keep that. What's next? Public schools?

They've proven over and over that nothing is beneath them. They're in a frenzy and they're out of control. I've lived when there was anarchy and riots and killing and mayhem. I sure don't want that for the United States, but they're sure pushing the cap off the bottle that has kept the boiling turmoil within this country from bursting forth. We need to march on the Limbaugh compound and Fox news and Rupert Murdoch's place until they stop the "inciting to riot" rehtoric. coffee talk anyone?

Once again Leisha, you pop up with relevant information. Thanks.

ariscus "medical wasteland"? You're a stitch! At this point I just have to laugh. Yeah, I thought George was your boy. You speak in Bushisms. The thoughts you post are line by line what the Bushyheads have fed you. If you didn't vote for him it's probably because you didn't vote. But I don't expect you to admit that. Or you brilliantly voted Independent, which was a non-vote in its' own way. But the fact that you are so consumed with taxes and big government and you're vocal about it NOW and not when Bush was in office should really tell you something. It tells me a lot.

missdiva, I agree with you, but to think that doctors are still called to medicine to help people is probably folly. Nearly everybody in America seems to want nothing more than to be wealthy and own more and bigger luxury merchandise. If someone who was thinking of going into medicine can't get the kind of wealth they want, it's no big deal to make a change and do something else that will. With that kind of greed-driven mindset, it's no wonder that all we hear from those folks has to do with what they are expected to pay to keep our government strong. They expect everybody else to take care of their needs - roads, bridges, police, firemen, their ailing grandparents... but oh no, they sure don't want any of their salary going to the government. The government is the boogy man. The goverment in America is socialism. Only problem with that is they NEED what the government takes care of, but they don't think that THEY personally should be required to pay for those things. They want to keep every red cent they earn in wages. And for a long time, most rich people did keep most of what they earned. But now that a more honest, fairer adinistration is in place, they're feeling very threatened! And they should. They've been able to build their portfolios on the backs of hard working middle class Americans. How do I know this you might ask? Because my portfolio grew by leaps and bounds when there were more and more loop holes for the rich. And now it's time to pay the piper. I am more than willing to do my part and always was, but Georgie boy and his cronies saw to it that I didn't have to. I am glad they're gone and I hope that November (the threat that ariscus made) doesn't bring out a bunch of voters with short term memory loss, because if they do elect a majority of Republicans to Congress, as a country we are really in for it!

This is a losing argument on both sides. You're blinded by the light and I am tired of your same lame, inane line of thinking. Why don't you stop trying to debate me and I'll do you the same favor.

ariscus, thanks for bringing my words back to light for all to see. I appreciate it. They are brilliant enough to show again, I agree. :-) And as for your friend's words, who's surprised that he doesn't want to be a doctor with the health care system that we've had. Doctors haven't been given a fair shake by the insurance companies either. They have their decisions monitored by insurance companies, who have wedged themselves between the patient and doctor. They have a tremendous amount of paperwork that they have to deal with because of insurance companies. And as my doctor said... several years ago, the U.S. is no longer able to recruit the best and brightest young Americans to become doctors. Now we have thousands of doctors who have been schooled in foreign countries, who have English as a second language and there wasn't been any promise of it turning around during the Bush administration. In fact, year by year it got worse! You hear what you want to hear. We all do of course, but you really need to stop jumping to conclusions when you read something bad. Stop assuming that it is because of this president that bad things have happened. We haven't been recruiting the best and brightest for medicine long before President Obama was elected and took office. You all are trying to re-write history but too many of us know the truth. We freakin' had to live through that crap that your guy brought down on our shoulders.

ariscus: said when speaking of what George W. Bush did for him: "Protected me and my country from additional terrorist attacks." Yeah, you personally didn't die in a terrorist attack. And Dubya personally saw to that. Brilliant! Because if you think that invading Iraq saved you from terrorist attacks, you're wrong again. The terrorists have become stronger and better funded because of that war. That invasion - shock and awe - as Georgie called it, was a huge mistake and of course, we will pay the price for it. In fact, the humongous debt we have is due in large part to that war. Now what is more important to you, no new taxes or paying off the debt we already have for a war we should never have waged? That your hero, Geo Bush, got us into. And you say that you pay 50% in income tax on a combined salary of $200,000? Dude, you're doing something really wrong. Or perhaps when I scanned your post I didn't understand what you were saying. As for comparing me with Cleo'smom, what a compliment!! Thank you so much. I don't deserve it, but if I in any way can be compared to her, I am humbled and feel a strong sense of pride at the suggestion. And I'm sure that you and patty have such a similar mutual admiration thing going on, eh?

ariscus: "You said the young mean spirited part and she said the wouldn't help my neighbor, part. " Clarify please. I don't know what you're referring to and if you're going to quote me, please quote ME and don't quote someone else and attribute it to me.

I haven't watched Rachel Maddow since the vote but I wouldn't be surprised if she is calling for Limbaugh to put his money where his mouth is and get the heck out of Dodge.

Pure and simple ka-ka-doody. Nice piece of propaganda but sorry, it just doesn't wash. Stand out of the way and let the people who CAN fix America, get the job done. We've had plenty of your kind of thinking and we all know where it brought us. This so reminiscent of when the Republicans had the white house under Reagen and Clinton took office. Just get the hell out of the way and wait your turn to screw it up again, please!

Good grief!!! I cannot believe that someone is still trying to make federal funding for abortion an issue relating to the health care bill. Well I guess I shouldn't be shocked. These are the same people who ranted and raved about the war in Iraq having merit long after we knew, for sure, that the WMD stuff was a load of garbage! As for your insurance company refusing to pay for an abortion, just remember that the folks who run the insurance companies are the same wealthy dudes who have convinced ignorant Americans that there is something in the bill that provides federal funding for abortions. And for them, it really is NOT about the abortion issue. It is REALLY about their greed for the almighty dollar. Not paying for a medical procedure, whatever it is, only makes them richer.

phil, cleo's and Leisha, all making excellent points, as usual. Of course the tea baggers aren't actually bringing up the race card when they do all they can to insult the president and his administration. If they did, they would be seen for what they really are and they can't have that, now can they. Right wing extremists have been a part of America since day one. They've really come out of the woodwork and become even more militant and obnoxious since the Fox network and others have encouraged the kind of thinking that they possess. Now they are even more dangerous and have recruited people who might normally just quietly wait out their opportunity to vote. People like that seem to feel there's safety in numbers. The more they recruit and the more garbage that Limbaugh, Beck and others spew, the stronger they feel they are. I, for one, am sick of it. And I hope that they remember that they aren't the only ones who have a right to bear arms. Because if anything happens to the president, at their hands, Americans are not going to put up with it.

P.S. What I want for Americans is a good universal health care plan that doesn't exclude hard-working, law abiding citizens from having access to the best health care in the world. You know, the thing that so many Americans can't get from the system we have now. Yes! Government run health care, that's right! The demon government in charge of a system that will not discriminate or disenfranchise anyone, just the thing that our country promises. It is the very least we can provide for our people and it actually amounts to the most important thing that we should provide.

Utter complete bull$shite. Greed is what is running them into the ground. And trying to ruin this country too. Most progressives aren't interested in a "nanny" state. But I wouldn't expect you to understand what they do want. I'm sure you don't have time in your mental thought processes to give anything but your own opinions any mental time. This peeing contest is silly. You aren't open to considering an alternative way of solving America's problems and we had 8 years of the way you want things to roll. Those 8 years are proof positive that what you champion doesn't work. So let's give up the silliness, shall we?

Still no real answers, airscus? Just silly sarcasm, eh? Or are you trying to say that this new health care bill is the end of capitalism? Nothing would surprise me. The way some of you think is truly mind boggling.

phil we might as well use humor to deal with the situation. Logic and knowledge doesn't seem to enter the minds of the right wing fanatics. They're too hell-bent (yes, hell-bent) on being obtuse and ugly. Hell-bent, first cousin of the Bent-ley. Har. Lame I know, but anyway, whatever...