BJean

As for the government workers making more and having better benefits than in the private sector, that is a blanket statement that is not true across the board. I can give you lots of examples of jobs in the private sector pay a whole lot more money and provide bonuses and perks that are absolutely not available for a job requiring the same skills and education in the government.

Elder care and child care businesses are probably the most regulated businesses we have. And for very good reason. Bad people were abusing old folks and children. They were not feeding them properly. Not keeping them clean. Physically hurting them. Not carrying adequate insurance. And other things that are too numerous to mention. Having lots of regulations on those types of businesses is absolutely mandatory. And obviously if those are the businesses you've been in you have reason to complain about all the red tape. But it is necessary and although you seem to think people would be fine without so many regulations on those businesses, the opposite is true. Restaurants can kill people with the improper handling of food so it is important that they have regulations to prevent that. Restaurants must have lots of oversight because people's health is at stake. But many small businesses have virtually no government regulations to speak of. You should think about getting into another line of work if you believe that you're over-regulated by the government. The government oversight to protect the public from bad people with bad business practices is necessary, right and good. With the population of this country and the mindset that anything goes as long as you're making money, we're likely to need more regulations, not less.

patty: "You just don't get how important it is that the government doesn't continue to have more and more control over everything." You just don't get how irrational that is. patty: "But I did recieve WIC when my kids were young, and energy assistance, and I was once on welfare for 2 years or so when I was 19. I was one who took advantage of these programs simply because I could. It was a huge waste of federal funds." Good grief!! No wonder you think everyone who accepts help from government programs is taking advantage and they don't really have a need. You're admitting the kind of person you are and it is very telling indeed. I know you'll back peddle and say I "put words in your mouth" and all that. And you'll say that was before you found Christ and you would never do that today... But you reveal your true self in so many ways. No wonder you can't understand the thought process of someone who is more progressive and left leaning. You think every American is on the take from the government. It must really suck to be you and to harbor so many negative feelings about your government. No wonder you have become such an extremist. No wonder you think what we did to American Indians was fine and that the Indians brought it on themselves. Yeppers you're a Republican all right. Through and through.

A fine example of what corporations will do is the tobacco industry. They created cigarettes that are more addictive than plain tobacco cigarettes would be. They advertized to lure kids into smoking because it looked cool. And the list goes on for them. And they're probably no different than most other corporations. If you think that corporations just provide a product and then wait to see if it is going to be popular and consumed in massive quantities, you're fooling yourself. The lenders that did such creative financing that they were able to lure people into buying homes they really couldn't afford is another example. patty will say that's the person's fault who was suckered into becoming addicted to cigarettes or the one who bought a home that is now in foreclosure. Or the person who signed up for a credit card at one interest rate but then found out that if they happened to miss a payment, not only would they be charged a late fee but the original interest rate would be go up drastically for any outstanding balance. I disagree that customers are responsible for corporate fraud and misleading business practices. I think corporations should be made to adhere to fair trade practices. The government is able to help protect Americans from companies that misrepresent their products and it should regulate them and keep an eye on them if they want to do business in this country.

patty I don't always have time to go to the link. YOU are the one posting the information and it is encumbent upon YOU to cite your sources. Otherwise it appears that YOU are the one writing the article. And in some circles you can get in trouble for that.

You don't think that patty authored that rant, do you?

I would be willing to wager that if there were a contest to see who is more popular, you or Leigha, here at LBT you, patty, would not win.

Am I the only one who is curious about where patty found that post about calorie counts being mandated? I'm going to start posting stuff that my kids write. They have as much credibility. Leigha, have you ever eaten at a Red Robin? We go there for lunch sometimes. I thought I was doing okay with my choices until I saw some of the calorie counts of their meals. They're worse than I could have imagined! I have a feeling you shouldn't eat anything there. And what about Long John Silver? You never hear much about the calories in their foods but do they have anything at all that isn't dripping in grease? I get indigestion just thinking about it. I love the idea of public eateries having to post their nutritional values and calorie counts. I also would dearly love for the health department to post the scores for food handling on every restaurant door. We were shocked at the number of demerits our local Red, Hot & Blue got from the health department.

Leigha, patty has been ignoring every question I ask. And usually all I'm asking for is clarification of something she's posted. I have a feeling she doesn't always read what she's posted and doesn't realize the ambiguity of some of her posts. She's in a pi$$ing contest and all that matters is that she wins for posting the longest stuff. It doesn't have to have any legitimacy or basis in truth, it just has to be long and very right wing.

"If we don't help the least among us, we cease being the great country we are and we become morally bankrupt." says Cleo's But Cleo's you need to take into account that the right wing doesn't think that it matters if they are morally bankrupt. They've been saved. They've accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior. They are not expected to be perfect or even strive for perfection. They are expected to sin - that's why Christ died on the cross. God knew humans couldn't go without sinning or perhaps even being morally bankrupt. So all they have to do is keep on keepin' on so long as they accept Jesus as their savior. By golly, they're going to heaven and afterall, that's what it's all about. Right Alfie? Sorry I couldn't resist. Patty is so hell bent on making assumptions when anyone who doesn't agree with her posts anything. Turn about is fair play. Um kay?

good grief, patty. I'd think you'd be embarrassed to talk about lying by our president. The right wing lies if their lips are moving.

"Assault on capitalism" really? The progressives have a broad "plan" to turn America into a European style socialist system? You can't get very far into the article before you realize it is somebody's conjecture and this somebody is not being even-handed in his rant. It sounds like one of my rants except for the right instead of the left. I'm underwhelmed.

In my post above I was referring to this post: #525 by patty

What the heck? Who wrote this? Where was it published? Is it a reliable source? Did YOU write it?

Well Chris some churches are not motivated by goodness and they are do not contribute to the overall good of mankind. See Leigh's post about the scrambling the church is doing trying to divert attention away from the Pope's behavior before he became Pope. If they made a clean brest of things and offered up the perps for prosecution and made restitution to the individuals who were abused, then they would be contributing to the overall good. Oh yeah, and if they made absolutely sure none of their priests ever abused children again that would help.

Good post, Cleo's

patty: "1/3 are government temporary jobs and 1/3 or so are Census hires that are temporary. They end in a month or so, then we're right back to unemployment. The only jobs that count are private secter permanent jobs." What? Back to unemployment? That would presume that the 9.7% unemployment rate right now doesn't represent unemployed people. Makes no sense.

Who is John Ellis, quoted in post 1143? Where was it published originally?

WELL SAID, KARTMAN! :thumbup:

You sure could be right, Leigha about people preferring to work for small businesses rather than large corporations. But I don't think that is why this became an issue that the right wing glommed onto. It is simply one more thing that they can do to put fear in middle class Americans. But the gambit comes from large corporate entities that simply do not want the regulation or subsidies that the left wing wants to put on them. They've enjoyed a long run with having free reign to do business pretty much however they want to in America. They've realized billions by having governmental support to do it. In the past, the theory they used to sell capitalistic greed to the middle class was that if the large corporations do well, it will trickle down to all of the middle and lower income folks. Well, it has been long enough now for Americans to realize, for sure, that trickle down doesn't work. So the powers that be (big money) had to find a different way to incentivize Americans to keep them as big and powerful and lucrative as they have been. So that's why this hype about health care reform harming small businesses is such a core part of their campaign. Get the American middle class to support the idea of a free capitalistic society because it is unAmerican to put regulations on them. Get the middle class to embrace the idea that reigning in the insurance companies, for instance, will harm small businesses. Put out all kinds of false and misleading information to support their claims so as to scare the owners of mom and pop businesses enough to make them join in demonstrations and carry placards. That's is what the tea party is about. It has come about by big business people using lots and lots of corporate money and organization ahead of the movement so that middle income Americans will fall in step with the slogans and ideas that they put forth, which will influence more and more Americans to think that there really is substance behind the hype. One would have to be an idiot to think that all those professionally made signs and demonstrations were really organized and funded by mom and pop small business owners. Sorry, I got a little carried away with my rant.

I have been thinking the same thing. Wouldn't it be interesting if they lost seats and governorships rather than gained. It won't happen. But I do hope that people who are sick and tired of this will get out and vote and not just stay home because they become apathetic. Or feel overwhelmed by it all.

Well it isn't unconstitutional if it is done to ensure the rights that other Americans have to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Relevant word being "life." Same with car insurance, as I said before that someone pooh-poohed. When we learn through human behavior, that people need to have rules to protect themselves and others, we have seen fit to enact legislation or pass local laws to do it. Helmet laws are similar and nut balls everywhere, who ride motorcycles without helmets are still up in arms about that one. Live free or die, eh? Well if your motorcycle slams into my SUV, and gets blood all my ride, that just ain't right. Duh, Bubba.

Well I don't know that this incident with Mitt Romney's dog is necessarily an indication of the man's capacity for cruelty. He sure doesn't seem like the brightest bulb on the porch and he may intellectually be more like the Chevy Chase character in "Vacation" than anyone wants to admit. But that being said, it certainly doesn't preclude the thought that he is a person who has the capacity to be inhuman to other human beings either.

Well I'm not sure who you're talking about but he would probably be surprised to know that millions of Americans feel like you and I do. You know what they say about denial... I hope you and Leisha will keep bringing good information to the attention of everyone here even for those who just lurk but don't post.

patty it's really not wise to accuse someone else of commiting the same behavior of which you yourself are guilty. Because Cleo's can back up her statements. She cites the source of her information. She doesn't post sound bytes she's heard from some crazy left wing idiot. We know that she's a passionate progressive who believes in the Democratic ideals. But we also know she's smart enough to tell people her sources and let them read for themselves who said it and where it was published. She isn't just posting her feelings - like I mostly do. She's posting factual information. It's folly to pick on her.