Susanne

Spirited discussion about this going on right now in this thread: http://www.verticalsleevetalk.com/topic/12289-how-is-1200-calories-enough/ Lots of great information (and I am too lazy to rewrite)

Can someone write a "Stall in week 3" thread and make it sticky? Seems like everyone (and that includes me) has this question and one collective thread may be a good idea

That is a great article and it explains why going below BMR during weightloss works for the obese. But it also says that "normal" people do burn lean mass when eating too little calories, and I thought that was what the OP was asking - how come most guidelines recommend 1200 calories after reaching goal? According to the article, if you eat 1200 calories at goal, you are losing lean mass which to me means we should eat more (like you do)

Wow, I am hearing the wildest things here - severe calorie restriction is GOOD for you, starvation mode is a myth? Anyone to back up their claims with any links or supporting evidence? Yeah, the BMR can adjust, but that should by no means be desirable or even acceptable long term. I still believe that for many people here, 1200 or a little above is at least initially really the BMR. I believe this is mainly since most of us have yoyo'ed for the last decades and forced our BMR to such low values. (http://books.google.com/books?id=RwMBD5TSMawC&lpg=PA335&ots=aWT6ibnxJd&dq=yoyo%20bmr%20reduced&pg=PA335#v=onepage&q&f=false). In addition, most of us are fairly sedentary which certainly doesn't help. I have an office job and I am probably at the very low range of "natural calorie burning" and do like to supplement this with exercise (well, not like, try to/have to). Like I said, I don't believe I am much higher than 1200 right now having gone through starvation, grapefruit, and cabbage diets, lemon cleanses and other idiotic things that got me to the point where I needed surgery to help me lose weight. I do hope to get up to a better BMR over time. I believe the 1200 you have read about may only be a guideline too. As you can see with Tiffikins, who is a fairly petite woman (from what I understand) and she takes in 1200 to 2000 a day and that is what I am hoping for myself.

I am with you - it goes against everything that I have ever learned about nutrition - just because I am/was fat doesn't mean I didn't know how the body works. I am 10 weeks out, and I am at 900 calories. I think one of the big differences is that you first and foremost eat Protein protein protein and did I mention? PROTEIN. I too feel good on my 900 calories and I am surprised by that. I exercise every evening for about 40 minutes (and this is restricted by time I can spend and not energy). If you plan on hiking and burning an excessive amount of calories, then you should certainly add calories in. In my mind - and I believe that this is the case for me - is that my BMR is just lower. I have been tracking calories on and off for a few years now and I can tell you for a fact, if I eat 2000 calories a day, I'll blow up like a balloon. 1500 is borderline maintenance for me. I sometimes feel that they are consistently telling us a little lower calorie goals with the though that "the fatty/ex-fatty is going to cheat" and even if that is not it, I believe even with thorough tracking, there are always some calories that go over. It's just me maybe, but I may not track the Ritz cracker (singular) that I stole from my husband, I don't track the splash of milk I use in my coffee, I don't track the stick of gum or the gummy bear I thoughtlessly stuffed into my mouth so if I am striving for 1200 I am probably getting 1300? Again, I am with you and wondering myself - I actually posted something to that regard myself in my post surgery phase where I was around 400 calories: http://www.verticalsleevetalk.com/topic/10573-post-op-diet-not-enough-calories/

LOL, same here - I got in even earlier and was sleeved on 11/2 - the day after BCBS of MI approved it. I was scared during surgery thinking "What if it was a mistake and they don't cover it??" But they did....

Globetrotter, my nutritionist said the same, but I think this is just a trade-off because reaching the Protein goal is VERY important and the only way many can get there is with a Protein shake. But I think that was kinda my point - taking my protein is a little bit akin to taking a Vitamin pill or so - I know I have to do it but I don't want this "chore" to add to my calories. If you have a problem taking in your calorie goal to start with, as Armstrong explained, it is probably OK. I generally have no problem eating my 800-900 calories with healthy, satisfying foods so to me (me personally, we are all different), it seemed like an excessive amount of calories. I am actually mentally doing protein ratios or what I consider the "protein density" - protein grams per calorie. My Wheybolic protein shake has 30g for 140 calories which is a ratio of 0.214. The hot chocolate Protein Drink is 32g for 360 calories which is 0.089. My favorite Breakfast (an over easy egg on top of a slice of lean ham or chicken) is 32g for 190 calories so 0.168. My Fage 2% yogurt is 17g for 130 calories so 0.131. I am always trying to get a fairly high protein density in my foods - that doesn't mean I don't have a cookie or a scoop of ice cream, but if I am going for a protein supplement, I try to get the most protein out of the smallest amount of calories. Did I mention that I am slightly OCD and ADD? Anyways...just thought I'd mention it :-) PS: if you are focusing on carbs more than calories, it may be interesting for you to calculate the protein per carb ratio instead of protein per calorie

Chilo, that is probably true, but I just wanted to note that yeah - it probably tastes great but it also has more calories than anything else I take in as a single item. I am pretty sure that most people would be very hesitant to spend 360 calories on a cup of hot cocoa. And I also think it is not a good "new addiction" as Armstrong called it for someone who is still in the middle of the losing process. You say your shake has 250 calories and you use it to replace a meal. 360 is almost 50% more than your shake! Once the nutritional values are mention, everyone is of course free to drink it or not and I'll be the last to tell anyone they can't have it.

BCBSMI does not do pre-approval, they won't give you anything written that they'll cover it. I am in Grand Rapids, where are you?

Can you all remember to post the starting BMI? 40 pounds for someone who started with a 50 bmi is very different from a 35 bmi

I have to agree with Sheila. Not only was I told to avoid drinking calories, your drink isn't just calories, it is is crazy high in calories, if my math is correct, this should be 60+200+100=360 calories. That is A LOT for 32 grams of Protein. I believe you that it tastes great but I think I rather get my 30g through my Wheybolic Protein shake for 140 calories. It may not taste as nicely, but the difference of 220 calories is basically a whole meal for me or an awesome treat. I can have a cup of Edy's Fun Flavor ice cream which is usually between 190 and 250 depending on flavor. Or I can have a nice glass of wine, or chocolate mousse or...you get my point :-) I was told that I should stay around 900 calories (now 9 weeks out) and I have no problem doing that and not feeling like I am sacrificing. If I would have a cup of hot chocolate with 360 calories, I would get in trouble staying within my limit or have to sacrifice a meal

Starting BMI: 43 6 weeks: 35 pounds 9 weeks: 41 pounds In between we had the holidays which affected the weight loss because I was kinda sloppy with my eating between 12/23 and 1/1 and basically lost a week. I am very happy with this amount of weight loss.

I am horrified by your surgeon's behavior

Same as Eureka-C, all I got was nothing to eat after midnight before surgery day

Looks good! That is one of the things I am so looking forward to...a short haircut. It's not like I have long hair but always kept the chin(s) covered. It always seems to make me looking a lot more homey and boring than I actually am. And I haven't told the hubby, he ain't gonna like it I fear

I think there is little restriction on liquids. It'll all change once you eat solid food items first, but after 9 weeks, I can indeed eat for example 4oz of deli chicken breast. But that's not a lot, it's 120 calories and compared to my preop eating habits it's what I would have had stuck between my teeth after a meal, lol

BCBS of MI does not require this

It's fine during preop, enjoy whole you can. That's what's gone for a while post op

Maybe I am just a putz myself, but I too feel like I have the right to ask my BEST friend if she had surgery. That's the right of a best friend - colleagues and casual acquaintances, no. In all honesty, I just don't care much, what other peeps think. You don't like what I did? Well, get over it or go fcuk yourself (pardon my french). I am not starting to become a liar just because you may or may not support my decision.

To the OP - do it, just do it. I don't know you but I am sure you won't be sorry. Check with another surgeon though. I personally was sleeved on 11/2 and I have not regretted it even for a second since then. I think I am happier than I have ever been in my adult life. As for Myrori, I didn't have the sleep study, the 6 month diet, the lung doc visit or the ultrasound of abdomen. It really seems to depend on surgeon and/or insurance, what you get and what they do. But I certainly wholeheartedly agree - the times where we were sheep and followed whatever a doctor said are over. Thanks to the internet, we can get a lot of information and "second opinions" to make informed decisions.

I tried it but like others said, it lacks intensity and I feel you are much better of at 24 hour fitness, Snap Fitness and similar places that feature better weight machines and some cardio equipment like treadmills and elliptical trainers. Snap has the arc trainer which unlike some elliptical trainers kicks. your. ass. I know a lot of women like the "women only" idea but at least at my Snap I never feel out of place or like I have to swim through a sea of testosterone. Snap offers affordable personal training. I am not affiliated with Snap, I just like it as an affordable yet professional gym environment.

Good luck! I know the excitement, unfortunately I feel I have to warn you that it will wear off but just keep in mind: it's two weeks of preop diet and then the rest of your life start. So, don't think "this is the first day of the rest of your life", think "these are the last two week of your old life"

Well, I just had a thick slice of deli chicken breast with an over easy egg on top for breakfast. 190 calories, 32 grams of protein and 100% yummy. I do use protein powder but you can get a lot of protein with delicious food. It may be less efficient protein, but I like it when it is food and not a supplement. I do like the Archer Farms cereal, but I was always into cinnamon and I guess they have to use something to cover up the stale taste that usually comes with protein.

Oh, and the app is free with a small ad at the bottom. Not much, but I wish there was a pay version

Ok I have been using MFP for a week now and I am very happy with it. There are a few thing I preferred on Livestrong, but the availability of the Android app makes more than up for it. I went and backlogged my food for the year for now, and will go and backlog my weight since surgery. I wish there was a way to import my Livestrong food diary too, maybe i'll suggest that to the programmers at MFG. Thanks for the suggestion, I am glad I asked