Why is banding so frowned upon?

[kgloverii 0]

I'm glad to see the Aussies jump onto this topic. I truly was waiting to get flamed for my comments about it being surgeon skill along with the diet differences. So many people on the board get bent on every morsel they eat, and I just KNEW I was going to be told that my anti-diet mentality had to go, and that I was going to wither away to some sagging skin and breaking bones cause I don't take Protein bullets. :confused_smile:

Thanks for the true Australian perspective! I truly believe that your perspective is one that needs to be taken note of...

[Jachut 487]

Lol, yeah join all us hairless muscleless wonders downunder! Apparently if you eat carbs, you'll never lose weight! Someone forgot to tell my body!

I'm off to do some pathetic waste of time muscle wasting running now...

Bottom line is calories in, calories out. What is healthy and what is not is entirely debatable, differs for different people and is supported by a mix of scientific theory and credible evidence and some complete bullshit too. On both sides.

[SillyGoose 0]

Thank you so much everyone for your comments - it is much appreciated!

Jachut - I have to say that I do like the idea of eating the way you do. You're right about the processed foods here too - it's outrageous!

Again, I have not met with my surgeon yet, but I have heard that after your healing period, he no longer wants us on shakes of any kind (yay!) but he does want you on a strict Protein only diet for the first month or two! I couldn't believe it when I heard this! I've done low carb before - and I tried it again recently. I just can't stick to it!

I need a variety of healthy foods to keep me satisfied and sane!

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

There you go! If 85% of all patients are losing 60% of their excess weight at a minimum, that's some success rate for WLS if you ask me,

I think the slippage rates here are 1%, and erosion less than 1% here in Australia. I wonder if it's to do with surgeon skill.

I don't know about the rest of the world but it seems that there are a LOT of new doctors that want a piece of the banding pie. I think many see it as easy money. So there are inexperienced doctors going through their learning curve on the band. I think this holds true in the US especially and Mexico, too.

I have a real concern when doctors (such as one in Phoenix) who are so busy doing surgery they don't have time for fills. A friend of mine was banded and she had to wait four months for a fill because the doc was so busy that was the soonest appt. Another one in Phoenix is trying to make people believe he is the revision guru such as band over bypassed stomachs. He's just not that great and revisions are much harder to do that a straight band. Another Phoenix doc quit doing anything but bands. He can do 10 bands a day but can only do a 3-4 sleeves, bypass, etc. in a day. Then he doesn't do any of the follow up, his staff do. He rarely sees the patient again after surgery. Banding makes them more money, it's like an assembly line for some of these guys.

Then there is one doc in AZ that has people on a couple of days of full liquids, a few days of soft foods and a first fill at 3 weeks. No wonder our slip stats are over double compared to doctors in other countries. It's not fair, many (most?) of these people are self pay and they are taking out loans, refinancing their homes, etc. just to get this surgery and then they will slip or lose their bands in the future. It's just not fair.

[WASaBubbleButt 41]

Lol, yeah join all us hairless muscleless wonders downunder! Apparently if you eat carbs, you'll never lose weight! Someone forgot to tell my body!

I'm off to do some pathetic waste of time muscle wasting running now...

Bottom line is calories in, calories out. What is healthy and what is not is entirely debatable, differs for different people and is supported by a mix of scientific theory and credible evidence and some complete bullshit too. On both sides.

I don't think most people are anti carb because it's a carb, I know I am anti-white carb. For a great many of us white carbs are a trigger food. If I eat bread I crave bread to an extreme and can't quit, I lose control. Yet sugar... I can take it or leave it. There is nothing in flour or sugar that we need. It's a waste of calories, not good for you, and for a great many of us a huge trigger for carb cravings. I know I didn't get fat eating broccoli, I got fat eating white carbs.

I looked at this as a life style change. I did that, I don't eat a great deal of garbage food anymore. It doesn't do anything positive for my body, garbage food makes me gain weight, and the more I eat the more I crave. I think you'll find that there are a huge number of people in the same boat as me.

So for me personally I am not anti carb, but I'm mega anti-WHITE carb.

[kgloverii 0]

So for me personally I am not anti carb, but I'm mega anti-WHITE carb.

I think Jachut feels the same way too. In an earlier post I referred to someone who asked how much of a tuna sandwich they should be able to eat, and they got an earful from dieters claiming HOW DARE THEY THINK OF EATING A TUNA SANDWICH! All carbs are not the same and there are worse things out there than a tuna sandwich, lol.

I personally stay away from white carbs because they are nutritionally deficient and personally, post-surgery, I crave the GOOD for you stuff. Fibrous foods, fresh veggies, etc. But you know what? My favorite dessert is carrot cake. And if I happen upon some every once in awhile, I eat a bit. Are there better choices? God Yes. But do I disallow anything? No. I just don't eat the whole damn cake anymore! :confused_smile:

[Jodi_620 37]

I had two similar experiences with bypass people. Both were not people I knew personally rather came through my MIL. One was a lady that she worked with who had already lost most of her weight with bypass and when she heard I was going to get the band she told my MIL that the band is a ripoff, I will only lose a little weight and I will be on a liquid diet most of the time. And that I would have to keep going back for the rest of my life for adjustments. Then MIL's sister told her about a neighbor who had bypass and lost a lot of weight. She told her neighbor about me getting banded and she guaranteed that I would not lose weight and would probably gain.

My MIL didn't say much but I knew that she didn't have much confidence in what my outcome would be. Seven months later she now sees that these people were wrong. The real revelation came on Thanksgiving when I had on new clothes that actually fit me and she saw me in my size 8 jeans. She was amazed. She said that not only was my weight loss as good as her co-workers but I look healthier...apparently here coworker is pale and her face looks sunken all the time. She is also out sick a lot.

So from my experience it does seem like some bypass patients tend to look down on Lap Band.

Edited December 15, 2008 by Jodi_620

[AMJOHNSON 0]

I was approved for by-pass back when I was in the 300's and chickened out. I was not to keen on re-arranging my insides and I never had major surgery in my life so I chickened out. When I decided on the lap-band I heard all negativity from the 5 or 6 woman at my office where I worked who had gotten the by-pass. They all said I was making a mistake and the band was not a good choice. So on and so forth. I held to what I knew I wanted and that was the band. My younger sisters friend had the by-pass and swore if she could do it again she would get the band because of all the problems she had with the by-pass. Everybody is different. at least with the band if it ends up that it did not work for you, it is reversible. In all honesty the by-pass worked for my fellow co-workers who got it. I do know for me the band was the answer I was looking for. Basically, do what you are comfortable with or neither option will work if you keep second guessing it. Look at it this way people will go in for bo-tox injetions every other month to keep wrinkles away or go in for a flu shot when needed. fills are just that, injections. I for one will be happy to get a injection to help me through platues as that is always my weakest thing in dieting is platues.

Edited December 15, 2008 by AMJOHNSON

[gentylwind 1]

I just want to thank everyone for talking about this here and giving their opinions. This is very valuable information to process for those of us who are graduating into the "real world" of "regular food" now.

[HeatherO 7]

You have to choose what is best for your own personal situation. Really, it doesn't matter what you choose whether it be banding, R&Y, traditional dieting, medications, or anything else. There will always be people that are very vocal about being scandalized by your choice. Life is just that way.

If you look at your health, your eating habits, your commitment level and circumstances in your life . . . the choice becomes more clear. Just remember to take other peoples opinions with a grain of salt.

[Mississippi Gurl 0]

Being from Australia, I have an opinion about why the band works so well here - and that's all it is, an opinion.

I think its the diet. The emphasis is on a normal diet here, not Protein first. Protein first has several disadvantages to my way of thinking. Firstly, we dont all get 80 to 100 grams of protein a day and we're not all losing our hair and failing to lose weight and ending up all fat no muscle, so that debunks that theory completely.

Secondly, I dont believe protein DOES fill the stomach like the doctors say it does. I have had this discussion on Australian boards and there's general consensus that its the fibrous foods that fill the band and make you very satisfied - fruit, vegetables and grain foods (not WHITE carbs mind you). Eat a meal of mainly protein and you ingest a LOT more calories than a meal spaced out with plenty of salad and some bread!). Also it will be a much higher fat meal.

Now mind you, I am not saying that the old traditional food pyramid is the way to go. I think reducing carbs from a ridiculously carb overload diet is a sensible thing for weight loss and I agree our bodies need protein. But cutting out carbs and fruit and veg to the extent that many Americans do is also detrimental - you only need read the What Did You Eat today threads to realise that people are woefully falling short of healthy levels of fresh food, and living on protein foods.

To keep your calories low enough to be happy with 800 to 1000 calories of mainly protein foods a day (something no Australian doctor would recommend) you need a TIGHT band. Which in turn often leads to ingestion of slider foods not the healthy foods it was intended to encourage. And of course it leads to far more problems with the band.

In addition, Australians in general simply do not eat the amount of processed foods that Americans do. Protein shakes and bars are not food, they are processed, full of artificial sweetener and more designed to supplement athletes trying to build muscle, not the average person trying to lose weight. I cant for the life of me understand why you would have surgery to improve your health and then live on stuff like that.

And of course, like a previous poster mentioned, eating normally like that (well its normal to Australians) blows that whole diet mentality away. I dont know ANYONE here who thinks so much about what they eat, weighs, counts and measures it like Americans do. It really is just eat normally but less and to my mind, that works. Our surgeons dont give us rules and regulations, and we dont fear going back for fills and having to present food diaries or report that we've eaten bread once or any of that.

That's why the band is the gold standard WLS here. When you approach it from that perspective, its actually a very easy, non problematic surgery to live with, of COURSE people have problems here too, I met a lady the other day who's had since her surgery a flipped port, an infection at the port, port replacement of course, and no fill for 12 weeks while all that is worked out, and I know people who've slipped etc.

The PRIME reason for the success with the band here though is our medical system. Medical care is much more easily accessed, unless you live in a very isolated place, the idea of having to fly in for your fills is patently ridiculous here, as is leaving the country for surgery. You drive a few suburbs to your surgeon, that's all. Most people pay a once off fee of a few thousand prior to surgery and all their aftercare is bulk billed so no out of pocket expenses for your fills etc. Putting off a fill or an unfill because its going to cost several hundred dollars just doesnt really happen here.

I dont think the follow up with the band is disadvantage, I think its one of the keys to why it works well! Interestingly they're doing more sleeves in Perth now, for the simple reason that Western Australia is much more rural, and people are coming from isolated areas for WLS and the sleeve doesnt have the follow ups.

Now, those are all just opinions. I'm not stating them as fact. That's how I've worked my band, and its been hugely successful for me and that's the only authority I feel I have to say what I just did. I'm not suggesting I'm 100% right or that everyone should do it my way, and I'm not wanting to start a fight about it as everyone defends their high protein diet so vehemently. Those are the culture differences beween the US and Australia and how I interpret them, that's all.

Hi Jachut! I couldn't agree with you more!! While I know how important protein is, I don't necessarily want to get all of mine from a processed drink. I also think that a well balanced diet is the key to weight loss and maintaining that loss long term.

I am curious as to what you eat on a daily basis and what you ate during the first few weeks after your surgery?? I would really appreciate if you would share with all of us what your eating habits are so that we could get a different prospective on someone elses "diet".. Thanks!!

[Jachut 487]

I've just had a bowl of muesli with some sliced mango and a dollop of greek yogurt for Breakfast (oh and about 3 coffees since I've been up).

Today for lunch, I've got some leftover chicken from the other night (just marinated breast meat which we barbecued) and I'll make a salad to chop that into - lettuce, Tomato, cucumber, red peper, onion and my obsession lately - salad sprinkles (sesame seeds and nuts) and lots of avocado. I love avocados, live on them.

I'm doing a circuit in a little while after I've dropped my kids off at school, after a hard workout (I tend to burn 6 or 700 calories at a time) I try to have something with Protein and a high GI carb like a banana smoothie - some skim milk, a banana, some vanilla essence, we've got an entire tray of mangoes at the moment that we need to eat up so I might throw some more in that.

dinner tonight we're having shepherd's pie - that's a mix of leftover roast lamb in a tomato/worcestershire sauce kind of thing, I always chuck in kidney Beans, left over roast veges such as onions, pumpkin and leftover peas, carrots and Beans, then you top it all with mashed potato, sprinkled cheese and bake.

Sometime this afternoon, I'll probably have something a bit naughty like a cookie or two with a cuppa, I usually do.

That's a normal day for me, a couple of types of fruit, a few different veg, Protein at lunch and dinner (I rarely eat protein breakfasts, cant stomach it in the morning, I need a carb hit) a small treat, some exercise.....

Sounds a lot but its all pretty small quantities - no more than about 3/4 of a cup at a time.

[heartfire 4]

SillyGoose, I PMd you back!

For clarification tho, the surgeon that spoke in SillyGoose's (OP) seminar is an excellent BYPASS surgeon. It's what he knows. The facility we are with has just started banding (July) and the new surgeon is the one who will band SG. The new band surgeon is excellent and will be teaching the other 2 surgeons to band.

I completely agree with Jacqui and the Aussie food mentality. It is a much healthier and normal way to eat. The US has become so warped in the way we think about food. We are over-processed and WAY too focused on how much, what, and when to eat. The only thing anyone talks about is what diet they are on, what they've tried, what the next big diet is, etc. No wonder we're a nation of obese people who all happen to be on some diet or another. It's not healthy. We are dieting ourselves fat over here!

I'm newly banded and still trying to figure things out for myself. I'm not eating enough veggies and hardly any fruit. I've gotten on the Protein kick b/c of the surgeon's pot-op diet and I'm trying to get away from that some. I'm having to re-learn everything as I also have a dieter's mentality. It's what I've been doing since I started gaining weight over 20 yrs ago! I am losing copious amounts of hair tho. Maybe it's not Protein at all. Maybe I'm not eating enough veggies! LOL!

[SillyGoose 0]

The US has become so warped in the way we think about food. We are over-processed and WAY too focused on how much, what, and when to eat. The only thing anyone talks about is what diet they are on, what they've tried, what the next big diet is, etc. No wonder we're a nation of obese people who all happen to be on some diet or another. It's not healthy. We are dieting ourselves fat over here!

I'm having to re-learn everything as I also have a dieter's mentality.

No Kidding! I think my current method of trying to lose weight has been a combination of every diet I've ever tried. Everything is so jumbled up inside my head - I can't keep it straight.

I think the name of my current diet is.... ready for this...

Weightwatchers/Slimfast/Cabbagesoup/JennyCraig/Optifast&VitaminBshot/Lowcalorie/Lowfat/Highprotien/Lowcarb/LowGI - NutriSystem/Grapefruit/cottagecheese/lowsodium and everything else you can think of inbetween diet. LOL!

Seriously though - I have definitly dieted my way to being fat!

[HeatherO 7]

What an interesting concept . . . dieting ourselves fat. I guess I would have to say I am guilty.

I was a little overweight in my early 20's, until I decided to do something about it. That is what started the yoyo of deprivation to gluttony that got me to a 40 BMI. I would always lose a little, gain a little more, and repeat repeatedly. Those small increases definitely add up over the years.