Saddam's Execution...

[green 6]

Wasn't the UN formed BECAUSE of Hitler?

Yep, that is what I was saying in my overly wordy fashion. *blush*

[Carlene 12]

Even though no weapons of mass destruction were found, there is a huge amount of evidence that they were removed following 9/11 and before we attacked Iraq.

Perhaps this might be of interest...

On Feb 24,2001 in Cairo, Secretary of State Colin Powell, speaking of Saddam Hussein, declared, "He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."

My goodness....he almost made Saddam sound like a harmless pussy cat, didn't he? What happened in the next few months to change the official US position on Iraq? Well...there was the 9/11 attack, of course. Except that even George Bush couldn't figure out a way to tie his arch-enemy, Saddam Hussein, to the bombing of the WTC. Instead, he repeatedly referred to the guilty parties simply as "terrorists" - a label he applied at the same time to Saddam Hussein. Just in case anyone WANTED to assume they were one and the same, which they most certainly were NOT. As EVERYONE knows (or should know), the WTC bombings were master-minded by Osama bin Laden, a Saudi religious zealot who had only one thing in common with George Bush: both of them hated Saddam Hussein.

In order to sell the American public on his plan to invade Iraq - a country, by the way, less than the size of California - George Bush (along with his advisors) invented the WMD myth. But all that aside, there is no escaping the fact that no WMD were ever found in Iraq. Not a trace of a single one. And don't think Bush didn't have the every available soldier looking for them, because he did. And obviously, since none were found, our "mission", which was predicated on the presence of these terrible weapons, should have ended right then and there. Instead we're still there.

At some point, the White House stopped talking about weapons and started talking "liberation". Now that Saddam Hussein is dead and the Iraqis have (supposedly) elected a new leader, Bush says we're there to keep the peace and transition the new government as it takes over. HA! We're there to salvage what's left of Bush's pride. He will never pull our troops out of Iraq because he doesn't want to be remembered as the president who lost this war. Is that a good enough reason for YOUR sons and daughters to die?

[wootsie73 0]

I have to say, this is a very interestng subject and discussion indead. We all have diffrences of opinion on these subjects, which makes the bantering back and forth more fun. I have to say though, no one has said they were sorry Hussein was executed, just the manner in which it was done. So, at least we all agree on something. The most important point is that each of have our own beliefs and that will not change. There is respectable evidence on all sides of this issue. If you are a Bush supporter, the evidence was there to go to war. If you aren't a Bush supporter, there is equal evidence that we should not have gone to war. We are all friends here and we are never going to agree on political issues. If you are a Republican, your beliefs are goiing to be totally different than a Democrats opinion. Personally, I agree with Tired_Old_Man about the decrease in Christian values due to the liberalism in our own country. Our morals have gone down the tubes in the past few decades, IMO. These are also issues that should also be causing an uproar by all Americans. Although we have lost 3,000 + troups in Iraq, it is so many less than any other war fought by this country. Regardless of how you feel about the war in Iraq, we are there and I don't see any president, not even a Democrat, going in and pulling the troops out immediately. It is indead a very sad situation all the way around.

Anyone up for a debate on the Kennedy assination or the war in Vietnam? Those are truely very interesting subjects as well, and I'm sure there are many differences of opinion on them to.

It's been fun, but what's done is done and none of us can change what is happening, not even by electing a new president. So, I'm out of here for now. Ya'll continue to have fun!

[Carlene 12]

Regardless of how you feel about the war in Iraq, we are there and I don't see any president, not even a Democrat, going in and pulling the troops out immediately.

Nor do I, but George Bush wants to INCREASE the number of troops in Iraq. WHY? Saddam Hussein is dead, his government is just as dead, and there is no evidence of WMD. There is no threat to US soil or Americans outside the borders of Iraq. Our presence now is merely propping up one Muslim faction as it dukes it out with the other. It is a religious war, and religious wars are notoriously and historically unwinnable. It's also an area that we have no business sticking our noses into. It would make just about as much sense for us to send troops into Ireland to support the Catholics against the Protestants.

[lisah25 3]

I Personally, I agree with Tired_Old_Man about the decrease in Christian values due to the liberalism in our own country. Our morals have gone down the tubes in the past few decades, IMO.

It's been fun, but what's done is done and none of us can change what is happening, not even by electing a new president. So, I'm out of here for now. Ya'll continue to have fun!

What about liberalism do you think leads to a decrease in Christian values? I'm liberal, and a Christian, and when I read statements like yours I have to wonder about all those upstanding conservative Christians who get caught in really bad scandals.

You are right about what is done being done, but what we do from here on out is up to our leaders.

[wootsie73 0]

What about liberalism do you think leads to a decrease in Christian values? I'm liberal, and a Christian, and when I read statements like yours I have to wonder about all those upstanding conservative Christians who get caught in really bad scandals.

You are right about what is done being done, but what we do from here on out is up to our leaders.

Very good question and I do have some answers and possibly thought provoking ideas about it. I'm obviously from a very conserative Christian back ground and am totally honest about it. Personally, I believe the morals in this country are going to hell in a hand basket, which will eventually be the demise of the USA. I'll explain why I feel that way, so you may possibly understand where I'm coming from when I say that. You may not agree with me and I'm not asking you to, I'm just explaining why I believe what I do.

I agree that there are many "conservative Christians" who end up in huge scandals. However, they are definitely not the majority. Unfortunately, they give all of us a bad name. However, one of my major issues right now is the gay marriage issue. I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own homes at all, but I don't believe they should have the same rights as heterosexual couples. The Bible strictly states in several books, such as Leviticus, Romans, and I believe II Corinithians, that homosexuality is an abomination before God. If God had these scriptures put into the Bible, I don't believe it is genetic. Animals don't choose to be homosexual, just humans.

Another huge liberal issue is abortion rights. I know it is believed by most liberals that it is the woman's right to choose, but did that baby have a choice rather it was conceived or not? No, it didn't. Abortion is just being used as birth control, which they make all kinds of that can be used to prevent pregnancy. There is also much controversity about when a baby becomes a human being. Well, as a nurse, I can assure you that by the time most women find out they are pregnant, the fetus already has a brain, a spinal cord and nervous system, plus it's heart. So, it can feel pain! Watch a video of the egg being fertilized and you will see that it immediately starts growing and separating into many cells. So, I believe it is a human being from the moment of conseption. I know many feel differently, but there are websites about abortion that the general public would be horrified at if they took the time to view them. Even Roe, in the Roe vs Wade case is totally against abortion now.

Another very liberal idea that I totally disagree with is the right to disipline your children. I do not advocate child abuse in any way form or fashion, but the government has way to much control over how parents are allowed to disipline their children. The Bible states that those who spare the rod, spoil the child. No corpral punishment is allowed in our school system or at home in todays society. Children are taught in kindergarten that if their parent spanks them, they can be turned in to CPS and removed from the home. Well, I'm sorry, but children need disipline to learn the rules of society and how to be decent human beings as adults. As I said, I do not advocate child abuse in any form, but most of the children today have no respect for their elders, no respect for their teachers and run around acting like brats disturbing everyone around them and being rude. Therefore, we have more crimes and school shootings, etc than ever before. There need to be standards every child has to follow in school, and those have basically been thrown out the window with the law suits over dress codes, hair length, etc. by parents who think their child should be able to do whatever they want to. Prayer has been taken out of school, the Ten Commandments have been removed from public display, and many liberals believe that everything having to do with God or religion should be taken out of our society in general, especially our schools. People are even wanting to take In God we Trust off of our money. Our forefathers based the Constitution on Christian values that are being taken out of our society completely. I don't believe saying a prayer at a football game is harmful to others. If they are not Christians, they have that right; however, the majority of this country claim to be Christians, so the manority should not rule how everyone is treated and what they should be able to do. Liberals have introduced those ideas into our society and into legislation. Even a moment of silence so everyone could pray in their own way would work. And, don't even let me get started on the Christmas issue. No Natavity scenes on public display in the city, but other religions have the right to display theirs. Holiday tree instead of Christmas tree, Winter Holiday instead of Christmas. The list goes on and on.

Those are just a few of my feelings about current issues and I know differ from the majority of liberals. But, they do represent how MOST conserative Christians feel. My brother is a minister, so I'm very much aware of the differences between conserative and liberal ideas. I just wanted to explain why I said what I did.

[Carlene 12]

Children are taught in kindergarten that if their parent spanks them, they can be turned in to CPS and removed from the home.

Again....where do you get this stuff?????? Please provide ONE shred of evidence that any school district teaches such idiocy, or any documentation of a single state removing a child from his/her home because the parents spanked them.

There is a HUGE difference between spanking and abuse. If you think it's okay for a parent, in the name of discipline, to beat his/her child black and blue, then I guess you have a point. Otherwise, you are way off base. My DIL is a kindergarten teacher. Most teachers would not dream of "turning in" a parent for spanking. In fact, they wish more parents would spank their kids. Maybe then they would have a little respect for adults in general.

[Sunta 4]

Animals don't choose to be homosexual, just humans.

Male big horn sheep live in what are often called "homosexual societies." They bond through genital licking and anal intercourse, which often ends in ejaculation. If a male sheep chooses to not have gay sex, it becomes a social outcast.

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in "penis fencing," which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

Bisexuality is the norm among male chimps (check out Jane Goodall's books). Effectively a male chimp forms a long-term partnership with another male (which includes sex at times). When the higher-ranking of the pair challenges for leadership of the troupe, the backing of sidekick is essential. If successful, they then become nos 1 and 2 respectively in the pecking order of the troupe for access to the females, as well as food etc. But their closest relationship is with each other.

Among swans and flamingos there have been cases of two females living together using sexual contact with males purely to reproduce.

Almost a quarter of black swan families are parented by homosexual couples. Male couples sometimes mate with a female just to have a baby. Once she lays the egg, they chase her away, hatch the egg, and raise a family on their own.

Male lions also have sex with each other to ensure loyalty and bonding. Five percent of geese and ducks are homosexual.

Homosexuality has been observed for more than 1,500 animal species and is well documented for 500 of them.

[piercedqt78 658]

Again....where do you get this stuff?????? Please provide ONE shred of evidence that any school district teaches such idiocy, or any documentation of a single state removing a child from his/her home because the parents spanked them.

There is a HUGE difference between spanking and abuse. If you think it's okay for a parent, in the name of discipline, to beat his/her child black and blue, then I guess you have a point. Otherwise, you are way off base. My DIL is a kindergarten teacher. Most teachers would not dream of "turning in" a parent for spanking. In fact, they wish more parents would spank their kids. Maybe then they would have a little respect for adults in general.

I agree, I work in a kindergarten class 2 days a week and the teacher is always saying you can tell the kids that have some structure/discipline at home, and those that can do whatever they want. The school my nephew attends has a waiver that parents can sign and the principle will paddle your kid. This is a public school, no teacher is calling abuse there and no state agency is getting involved. ~Mandy

[piercedqt78 658]

Animals don't choose to be homosexual, just humans.

There are several pair of homosexual penguins in a zoo that were on the news recently. Animals are quite by nature also homosexual. We have gay friends that will tell you it ain't easy being gay, they would have rather been born straight, but it just didn't work that way for them. They face, hate, discrination, bigots, and close minded assholes everyday. Life would be easier for them to have a wife, and kids and live like Joe Normal, but they love who they love and that's that. My 5 year old gets it, why can't the rest of the world? ~Mandy

*I am in my asbestos underware so please flame away...*

[anonemouse 1]

Male big horn sheep live in what are often called "homosexual societies." They bond through genital licking and anal intercourse, which often ends in ejaculation. If a male sheep chooses to not have gay sex, it becomes a social outcast.

Giraffes have all-male orgies. So do bottlenose dolphins, killer whales, gray whales, and West Indian manatees. Japanese macaques, on the other hand, are ardent lesbians; the females enthusiastically mount each other. Bonobos, one of our closest primate relatives, are similar, except that their lesbian sexual encounters occur every two hours. Male bonobos engage in "penis fencing," which leads, surprisingly enough, to ejaculation. They also give each other genital massages.

Bisexuality is the norm among male chimps (check out Jane Goodall's books). Effectively a male chimp forms a long-term partnership with another male (which includes sex at times). When the higher-ranking of the pair challenges for leadership of the troupe, the backing of sidekick is essential. If successful, they then become nos 1 and 2 respectively in the pecking order of the troupe for access to the females, as well as food etc. But their closest relationship is with each other.

Among swans and flamingos there have been cases of two females living together using sexual contact with males purely to reproduce.

Almost a quarter of black swan families are parented by homosexual couples. Male couples sometimes mate with a female just to have a baby. Once she lays the egg, they chase her away, hatch the egg, and raise a family on their own.

Male lions also have sex with each other to ensure loyalty and bonding. Five percent of geese and ducks are homosexual.

Homosexuality has been observed for more than 1,500 animal species and is well documented for 500 of them.

Exactly. Anyone who says that homosexuality exists only in humans has obviously never researched it.

Our forefathers based the Constitution on Christian values that are being taken out of our society completely.

No, they based the constitution on Deist values, which aren't any more Christian than Jewish values are. If you say, "But wait, they obviously believed in God!", all I can say is that so do Jews, and they aren't Christians, either.

No Natavity scenes on public display in the city, but other religions have the right to display theirs.

There are no Nativity scenes allowed on government property. What part of "separation of church and state" don't you understand? The government CAN NOT favor one religion over another. Hell, it isn't supposed to favor any religion at all.

I don't get how a lot of conservative Christians are all, "Liberals are destroying the world!!!", when THEY are the ones that don't want to obey the laws. Seems to me that the consevatives are the ones destroying everything this country stands for.

[Carlene 12]

We have gay friends that will tell you it ain't easy being gay, they would have rather been born straight, but it just didn't work that way for them.

No kidding.....who would choose to be part of a persecuted minority?

[Carlene 12]

Male big horn sheep live in what are often called "homosexual societies." They bond through genital licking and anal intercourse, which often ends in ejaculation.

Waaaaaay too much information, Sunta.....LOL

[anonemouse 1]

One more thing I wanted to throw in because I think it is sort-of funny.

My home town is a smallish community (<45,000 people) in middle Tennessee. As you can imagine of a town in the bible belt, churches outnumber just about every other type of business. Well, there is a local artist that does large wood carvings out of logs. He carved a Moses standing with his head thrown back and hands raised and the ten commandments at his feet and gave it to the city. Where did the city put it? Smack dab in front of the court house. What made it so funny at the time were the other statues it was grouped with. You know how some cities will have artists make themed statues and auction them off? Well, my town had otters. Five foot tall otters dressed in clothing. They are all over the city, and there happened to be two of them in front of the court house. I think those were the Plumber-Otter and the Insurance-Otter (or lawyer, it was wearing a suit).

Anyway, it gets better, IMO. As you can imagine, there was a lot of fighting about the statue. Honestly, it wasn't a very good carving, because if you looked at it straight-on, it looked more like a chimp or orangutan holding its arms up in the air. That is actually what some people (including me) started calling it: "The Moses Chimp." Finally, the ACLU got involved, and rightfully so. It is ridiculous when an entire town government decides to blatantly break the law and expect to get away with it because they are Christians. Finally, the ACLU got them to remove it because they said that if the city wanted to say that the front of the courthouse was a free demonstration area (the excuse the government was using to keep the statue), then they had to allow everyone else to demonstrate there and put up statuary of their own. THAT made the city take the statue down in a hurry. Wimps.

[Sunta 4]

Waaaaaay too much information, Sunta.....LOL

I know! Even the most liberal/liberated person like me is totally grossed out by that description. Little too graphic for my taste, but hey, when one is frantically researching the latest Gay animal news, who's thinking about censorship? HAHAHAHAH!