Okay, here's the story. My DH has been friends with a certain Mr. P for over 40 years. Mr. P married a woman 14 years older than himself and they have been wed for 35+ years. He is a wonderful husband. Several years ago, Mrs. P developed Parkinson's Disease, which gets progressively worse as time goes on and ravages not only the body, but the mind, as well.

Mrs. P cannot be left alone, so for the last couple of years, Mr P has engaged the services of a caretaker on a daily basis. The caretaker is a nice lady - long since divorced and reasonably attractive.

Mr P feels that the time is very near when he must consider putting his wife in a nursing home. He gets little rest at night, due to her erratic sleep patterns and basically has no life of his own, other than getting out during the day when the caretaker is on duty.

The doctors and the nursing home Mr P is considering have told him that Mrs P is "no longer his wife". I have a problem with that.

To further muddy the waters, Mr P made the remark to my DH recently that he and the caretaker would probably "end up together", whatever that means.

Here is my dilemma. I told my DH this morning that when Mr P puts his wife away, we should invite him out to dinner, etc so that he does not get mired down in grief and guilt. Unless, I said, it includes L (the caretaker). I would never judge Mr P, but I am not prepared to socialize with him and his "girlfriend", knowing he has a wife in a nursing home.

My DH is very upset with my stance. He said that Mr P has been too good a friend for too long and he cannot refuse to go out to dinner with him, just because he wants to bring L along.

I believe in "until death do us part". I believe, as much as I like Mr P, that a sexual relationship with L would be adultery. I would never "preach" at him or against him for making that choice, but I am not comfortable with endorsing it.

My DH could go out with them alone, but eventually he would have to explain my continued absence. He doesn't want to have to do that. He wants me to go along "for him" and be pleasant and keep my mouth shut.

What do ya'll think?

Carlene I think you have a good heart and a strong mind. You should do and say what you are comfortable with and don't compromise your principles. This is a touchy subject with DH and one where you need to tread lightly. He needs to understand your deep moral dilema and not you just being "stubborn" or other adjectives. Somehow you need him to understand your views and let it go at that. He doesn't need to make excuses for your absence. He just needs to respect your opinion. That being said I hope you find a way that this stops driving a wedge between you and your DH. That would be a shame to ruin your relationship over the doings of Mr. P.

Good luck to you as you proceed.

My DH could go out with them alone, but eventually he would have to explain my continued absence. He doesn't want to have to do that. He wants me to go along "for him" and be pleasant and keep my mouth shut.

What do ya'll think?

Well, here's what I think. Were I in your shoes, I would do as my conscience dictates, and would worry not one whit what anyone else thinks.

Your hubby may want you to go "for him", but you've gotta do what's right "for you." That doesn't mean that you hafta speak up and voice your disapproval. It just means that you want no part in it. And it just means that you hafta do what's right for YOU.

After all, you've gotta live with yourself.

...that makes him (DH) very unhappy with me. Moreover, he has declared that should the occasion arise...he will be going to dinner, movies, etc with the happy couple, if that's the way I am going to be.

Do I understand your statement correctly? Are you saying that your husband is saying, "Well, since you're going to 'be that way', I'm going to go out with Mr. P and cohort as much as possilbe." Because, if so, that sounds like your hubby is levelling some sort of punishment on you since you won't "do as he says".

That's just WRONG.

He will simply tell them I am sick....or busy...or something. I, on the other hand, would prefer that he say something (to Mr P) along the lines of....

Tell it to Mr. P yourself. Don't allow hubby to speak on your behalf. Let the chips fall where they may.

Just my two cents..........

I have a total of 176 PM's. I think 100 of them were from people wanting to know what happened to Mrs. P.

She is still in the very nice care facility, although Mr P will have to pay $4200 per month to keep her there, after the first 90 days. We'll see what happens on that score. She may not live long enough for it to matter. She has lost 30 pounds since she was "admitted". Mr P has advised the staff that she is DNR and told her doctor he may not feed her via feeding tube or place a breathing tube, in which case, the doctor said, she will "fade very quickly".

Mr P moved the former caregiver into his and Mrs P's house the same week he moved his wife out. She (the caregiver) visited Mrs P several times but Mr P has only gone once. A night nurse called him and gave him a royal rip, up one side and down the other, for not coming to see her. Most of the staff did not even realize she was married. According to Mr P, she recognized him and called him by name but is confused as to whose husband he is - hers or the caregiver's.

I asked my DH to suggest to Mr P that he have a priest visit and give Mrs P the anointing of the sick (last rites). He said that was "a good idea", but I don't think he's done it yet.

My DH finally told Mr P that "Carlene is not very accepting of your relationship" with L. What a tactful guy!

Actually, he didn't have much choice. Mr P had mentioned, "I hope WE get to see you guys before Christmas," (emphasis mine) and I told DH just let me know when they are coming and I will arrange to be conveniently "tied up" somewhere else. Mr P's response was, "Well...I'm sorry to hear that."

I told DH that this whole thing makes me sad, but more than that, it makes me feel terribly vulnerable. Mr P was the absolute best husband I ever knew. If he is capable of this, then it could happen to any of us. My friend Alan is right....men are pigs. (Present company excluded, of course.) I'm just thankful that Mrs P's state of mental confusion/drug-induced bliss prevents her from knowing what a creep the love of her life has turned out to be.

This is a tragic story.

Carlene I am very sorry to hear that he didnt have enough tact to at least wait until she passed to move the caregiver in. I hope Mrs P really does NOT realize whats going on

oh my I am just so sad that he did that,it heart breaking ! Wether Mrs P is aware or not it just plain wrong ... I dont feel for him at all FOR WHAT HE IS DOING , EVEN ALITTLE BIT OF CONSIDERATION WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE ON HIS PART , WHY RUSH AND MOVE THE CAREGIVER IN...SO SAD

Dont worry Carlene, He will get his at the pearly gates when he sees the message "access denied". Why dont more people think in terms of eternity? So sad for Mrs. P. she sounds precious, Whos husband is He?

She may be in a state of confusion, but I still hear the confliction in her.

Thank God that He will never leave her or forsake her.

Wow! Poor Mrs. P! Men are so weak. Why is it we can think of hundreds of women that stick around until death in their marriage in sickness AND in health, but we can't think of too many men to serve as examples that stay by their wives?

Wow! Poor Mrs. P! Men are so weak. Why is it we can think of hundreds of women that stick around until death in their marriage in sickness AND in health, but we can't think of too many men to serve as examples that stay by their wives?

There is an old saying....women mourn, men remarry.

I don't know what to expect when Mrs P dies. Will he play the grieving husband at her funeral? Will he bring his girlfriend, possibly seating her with the family?

I believe that she needs continued care but Mr. P shouldn't get involved with anyone until the passing of his wife. That is just wrong.

I just finished reading every post in this thread and I now know why there are so many failed marriages. People get married and don't take their vows seriously.

Carlene, I had a similiar situation... We used to hang out with a few couples a few times a month. I found out that some of the couples were Swingers. That is not right in my book, and I felt VERY uncomfortable around them. They had some other moral issues that really bothered me. We don't hang out with them anymore. I never confronted them about why, because that is their business. It just made me uncomfortable being around them.

I completely agree with you on this one. If you feel uncomfortable, then I would not associate with L.

Mr. P came for a brief visit today. First time I've seen him since he put Mrs P away. I made sure I had someplace I had to go and ducked out shortly after his arrival. I did speak to him - pleasantly.

He is having Mrs P moved today to a less expensive facility. I figured this would happen as soon as Medicare opted out, plus he did not expect her to live past the first of the year.

What a jerk he has turned out to be.

Mr. P came for a brief visit today. First time I've seen him since he put Mrs P away. I made sure I had someplace I had to go and ducked out shortly after his arrival. I did speak to him - pleasantly.

He is having Mrs P moved today to a less expensive facility. I figured this would happen as soon as Medicare opted out, plus he did not expect her to live past the first of the year.

What a jerk he has turned out to be.

Have you considered talking to him about this situation and about your feelings? I am unsure as to how valuable his friendship is to your husband and how valuable the continued friendship of your husband and of you yourself is to this man. It does strike me that his love for his wife was genuine and it also strikes me that men - men much more than women - can become unanchored under these circumstances.

As we all know, women can rest in a state of widowhood, go through their time of mourning, and then perhaps remarry. Men tend to leap into a second marriage right away. Indeed, it is true that folks who are widowed may seek a replacement mate much more quickly than those who have gone through a divorce. In a perverse way this may count as a compliment to the departed; this displays that the one who is bereft found the married state to be a wonderful state.

Obviously your boy is jumping the gun and is displaying an unsettling degree of callousness. There is no reason why you should be expected to swallow this! On the other hand, it strikes me that he is an old man and that he is confused, frightened and is behaving very, very badly as a result. He sure as hell can't talk to his new woman about any of his internal, ethical or spiritual conflicts. He can't talk to this woman about his grief, fears, despair or qualms over his current behaviour. Let us assume that he has some. Let us also assume that he may not be able to talk about these issues with your husband....men being what they are. Why don't you corner this guy, tell him what you think, and open the door for him to say anything that he might wish to get off his chest? This might be a good move for both of you.

I've followed this thread for a while and I do have to say I think it is unfortunate that the discussion has morphed from an analysis of one man's bad behavior to a discussion of how bad men are in general. To the extent that has happened it is misguided and unfair, in my opinion. I could certainly take exception to much of what has been said about "men in general," but I won't.

I also have to say that I have come to a point in my life where I am very reluctant to judge anyone. No matter how bad this one individual man's behavior is or seems to be, we are just not in a position to judge. As green points out above, he may be dealing with a lenthy catalogue of demons, fears, insanities and confusions of his own. We just don't really know.

In light of how important this man and his wife have been in your lives in the past, and how significant the issue continues to be in your own family, I agree with green that it could be very valuable to "corner this guy, tell him what you think, and open the door for him to say anything that he might wish to get off his chest." Unless that conversation takes place, and takes place with an open heart an mind, there is no basis for judging anything or anybody, no matter how things may "seem."