green

Well, from my perspective the two acts are different. You see, the rapist is perpetrating his act upon an adult or a child who is fully cognisant of the willful malice that is being done. Now, as you may know, I have a different concept as to when life begins. I believe that life begins once the foetus is able to live outside the womb. And thus I believe that aborting a foetus is not at all similar to raping, torturing, or killing an adult or a child. The foetus is certainly genetically unique but it is not really here; it is without its own thoughts, imagination, or personality. Its destruction is not going to damage the emotional fabric of those around it the way the death of child or an adult will hurt those people who lose him. And certainly the rape or torture of a child or an adult will not only smash the psychological structure of the individual who has been damaged but will also affect those people who are close, who love the ruined individual. And in the case of a ruined child society may also end up suffering as well. The issue of abortion is much more complicated than that of rape. Yes, it can be argued that, depending on your definition as to when life begins, there are two victims here. And certainly no sane woman is going to say, "Yippee! Here's a chance for me to have an abortion! I've been dying to have one for ages and now here is my opportunity!" It is a well known fact that I am one of the atheists on this site. I would, however, like to posit that if there is a God, a personal God, then surely He is not going to allow the souls of those aborted foetuses languish in some sort of eternal rubbish heap. He, if He does exist, is fully aware of the array of reasons which drive women to have abortions and He may find some of these forgivable. My hunch is that the Christian cris35 has much the same idea and it is for this reason that she is advising you to attend to the beam in your own eye instead of obsessing on the mote in your brother's eye in her delicate and discreet manner. Of course I may be wrong and cris35 should jump on in and give me a verbal smack if I am.

I think that this is a thoughtful and generous post. It is God's business to do the judging, is it not?

I used to have a pretty good friend who was a little bit older than I am. He was black and married to a white woman. Their relationship was a long one and a very happy one. They were both terrific people but my friend was absolutely obsessed by race issues and could talk of little else. I was very patient with him because I have had to deal with anti-Semitism and, because I was one of the first women to get a job working on the floor building aircraft, male chauvinism. He did, however, alienate himself from everyone of my other friends who happened to meet him including a much younger black man. They found him to be obsessive and a horrible bore It turns out that my friend and his sister were the product of an interracial marriage which took place in the 1940s. His father was a black man who came up to Canada from Alabama and his mother was a Canadian white woman. His father died while the family was quite young leaving the white mother to fend for herself and her interracial children. Needless to say, his mother was treated badly and so were her children, that is to say my friend and his sister. He remembers his sister being so sick that his mother grabbed up the pair of them and took them to the nearest hospital. The doctor on call took one look at this family and refused to treat the child. A nurse reluctantly helped the child. I guess I am inclined to cut Lee4 some slack with respect to the race themes which do constantly appear in his posts because I find myself thinking about my friend. (He has moved away from the city and despite our best efforts we have since lost touch, by the way.) I do believe that when you belong you take those areas of your life where you are never, ever challenged for granted. How can you not? An example: beautiful thin people are used to getting great customer service wherever they go. They don't have to think about it and they assume that this is the norm for everyone. It is the people who don't belong who will see the inequities, the differences, and they may carry wounds and these wounds may fester. Thus to non-racist white people all this chat on the part of Lee4 about race just seems weird; race is invisible to us. It is not invisible to a bigot of course, nor is it invisible to someone who has been characterised as different or as an outsider by virtue of something which is outside of his control. Fat is an issue which is not dissimilar.

That photo of your dog and kitten is so sweet! I am glad that you have got it tied in with your signature. It puts a smile on my face everytime I see it.

I think that the alimony thing is complicated. If one partner has voluntarily disabled him or herself by staying out of the workforce for a long time in order to keep the home fires burning, too long to successfully return, then I believe that the other partner is on the hook. I also believe that some assistance or sharing out might be in order when the former couple had been accustomed to living a luxurious lifestyle and one of them now finds him or herself earning mini-money but this would also depend of course upon the division of assets at the time of the divorce. There are two interesting examples of alimony issues in my husband's family. His sister met and fell in love with a Frenchman. She left her career as an apprentice stock trader in a discount investment house in order to live with him in France and have his children. The marriage has ended and they have been locked for some years now in an ugly court battle. At stake is a piece of property which is worth a chunk of money. The children have been born and are being raised in France and their mother does not wish to return to Canada. France has now become her home. At the same time she has been unable to secure anything but menial jobs in France and these have been through the kindness of friends. Eventually she will secure half the money from the marital property but this will only permit her to buy another, more modest home. She will need income assistance for the rest of her life. The second example concerns my husband's brother. He has been working as an investment banker for a Canadian bank in various off-shore locations for some period of time now. His wife quit her job as a personal assistant to a senior executive in order to be with him. Not long ago they returned to Canada and he suddenly asked her for a divorce. He offered to split the money 50-50. She is still looking for a job and has hired a lawyer. She is also in bad shape about being dumped. It seems that he is pissed off that she has taken on a lawyer. It is likely that he will continue to make more money than she will and she has also lost her footing in the labour force because she chose to support the marriage and his career. My husband is kinda pleased that she has got herself a lawyer. I think that alimony may be in order when a woman (or a man) who is in the later stages of her life finds herself single again. It is difficult to find work let alone establish a career when you are in your fifties. I certainly don't believe that alimony should be awarded as a form of punishment to the "bad" spouse and I don't think that it is warranted when the incomes of the two partners are in the same ballpark. The issue then is merely one of child support.

Up here in Canada a lot of the advertising which is allowed south of border is simply not permitted. Much of this which is forbidden has to do with legal and medical services; we also have funny laws covering prescription pharmaceuticals. The way I heard about the lapband and the Toronto Lap Band Centre, the place were I went for my surgery, was through a girlfriend who had seen one of the surgeons interviewed on a local morning show. She had heard me whining about my weight gains for a long time and thought that I might be interested. Before I knew about the lapband I was thinking about extensive lipo but was terrified of the pain. The rest is happy history. :eek:

Yep, Canadians love their donuts. We were so excited about finally getting the fabled Krispy Kreme donut up here that there were line-ups on the opening day of the outlet but the Kremes have since flopped. This is because Tim Horton makes a magnificent donut and there are Tim Hortons everywhere. Now us city types do love Starbucks coffee. :biggrin1: So much better than the stuff available in any Canadian donut shop! As for deep fryers, even my ma finally got herself one sometime in the 1970s although she didn't use it all that often. I think cleaning it was a bit of a chore. Are they not that common south of the border? By the way, her best breakfast when we were kids was to fry up eggs, left over boiled potatoes, and bacon in bacon fat. :hungry: A festival of cholesterol. :omg:

I enjoyed our discussion, Gadget. Thanks, sez Green.

Although I think that I "get" the concept of homeschooling I must admit that I would find myself personally uneasy if the only reason for homeschooling is hinged upon a specific religious/philosophical agenda. This is because I am awfully fond of plurality and believe that it is only by permitting open and respectful debate that we might come to learn more about the world and about each other. And afterall, beliefs which are solid will survive scrutiny, will they not? I can understand the desire to carefully hand rear one's children, to ensure that they will be loving, self-confident, ethically grounded, emotionally generous, thoughtful, and intellectually engaged individuals. To tell you the truth I wish that I had had a little more of this care dished out to me when I was young. Indeed I am quite envious.... But where I find myself getting kind of jumpy is when I think that there may be some parents who will present to their homeschooled kids a kind of biased overview of other folks and indeed of history and current events. Let me explain: there are, for example, any number of private schools in western countries which have been set up to teach Muslim kids, kids who are born in the west, Arabic and knowledge of the Qu'ran. This is entirely understandable but some of these schools also teach an anti-moderate, pro-fanatical approach to Islam. Such an education does teach bias and bigotry. It will teach that those who hold different beliefs are without value. It may lead to acts of terrorism. And so I now find myself feeling a little edgy for it seems that homeschooling can work wonders if those children who are being homeschooled are in the hands of parents who are open and loving, and not racists and bigots. At the same time I recognise that attending school is not a guarantee against learning racism and bigotry. Ugh! This certainly is a complicated issue.

Again, thanks for taking the time to educate me in this matter, Gadget. :grouphug: :confused: And now I want to ask you yet another question. :help: It is my understanding that no state will allow parents to homeschool their children without insuring that these children meet or exceed the educational standards set by that state. Why then do some states take a dim view of homeschooling? I am, of course, thinking of katt's daughter being disqualified from adopting a child because she homeschools when I ask this question, and I also note that one of the website addresses which you have given me (I haven't visited either of them yet :embarassed: *blush*) is the Homeschool Legal Defense Association. I feel that I should admit that if I were a parent I would be plenty concerned about the quality of education that my children would be receiving in the public school system today. This is because I come from a family background which values academic and creative work over sports and social activities. (And so I have a nerdly set of values, you could say.... :rolleyes ) This means that if I were a parent I would be utterly baffled as to how to proceed with the business of educating my kids. And this is why I am now jamming you up with questions.

I'm with you on this issue. I can't see what harm drinking before your meals is going to do. In fact this is when I will top up my water intake because I know that otherwise I am going to feel thirsty for the next couple of hours. I am one of those sweaty people who needs to drink a lot. :tired It is fortunate that I really love the taste of water. :confused: Less fortunate that I also love the taste of scotch but that is another issue to deal with, I guess. :phanvan

Man, but you are a wonderful writer!!! Perhaps you should think about writing as a career. And, man, does your family sound dysfunctional!!! I am sorry to hear about all the crap that you have gone through. It is bad enough when society treats large people with disrespect and unkindness, it is emotional abuse when our families do. :confused:

Ah, where I live Indian blood is exotic unless the person is from India. In fact when I was a little kid my family was the exotic family in the neighbourhood because my parents had accents - unlike the Canadians who had none! My parents were also ten years older than the parents of all my little school yard buddies. When I was in grade one I was quite embarassed by my mum because she was in her 30s and all the other mums were in their 20s. She was not only foreign, she was old! :grouphug: Toronto was ultra Canadian whitebread in the 1950s. :phanvan As for meeting a Canadian Aboriginal/Indian, well, I don't think I met one until I was in my mid-20s. Even now it is rare to see a native person on the streets of Toronto. By the way, up here they and the Inuit - formerly known as Eskimos - are now officially known as Canada's First Peoples. We are politically correct even though we have sacrificed grammar. :grouphug: LOL As for chicken fried steak, can you get it rare? I likes my steak still mooing. :grouphug: And is it deep fried or pan fried? :confused:

BJean's comments are realistic, I think. Your children are now teenagers and will likely shoulder a split-up between you and their father with more equanimity than you think. Afterall, divorces are very common now and they have likely observed more of your relationship than you think. What is apparent in your posts is that you are dreadfully unhappy and that you presently have little love for yourself and little confidence in yourself, a state which is likely the result of the years of your husband's emotional neglect. And yet you are a good mother and a woman with a career who is about to get the band! These are all things to feel very positive about, are they not? You married a man who is wrong for you is all. You married him when you were very young. People do make mistakes. And you must remember that you weren't the only one who made the mistake when you said yes to this marriage; your husband also made a mistake. You did, however, get 3 kids to love out of this failure and that is a wonderful thing. For what it is worth I believe that it is time for you to move on and to allow your husband to move on as well. You sound like a wonderful woman. There is simply no reason to believe that you will never be loved by someone else.:confused:

Thanks for answering me, Gadget. :confused: I still have a few more questions and these have to do with teaching kids in the higher grades. I could teach a kid history, geography, art, social sciences, French, German, and English, but I would be entirely unable to teach anyone maths, music, physics or chemistry. This is due to those subjects being my weak points. How does a homeschooling parent get around this difficulty? Is there a homeschooling network where a parent who is strong in certain areas, i.e. sciences and maths, takes on a group of kids and the parent who can handle languages and arts will take over the kids for those subjects? Or does the homeschooling parent hire a tutor for those subjects which give him or her difficulty? I have one more question: while I can entirely understand a parent's desire to homeschool children, the modern school environment can be a socially stressful or even dangerous one for children what with gangs, peer pressures, bullying, etc, how do children feel about homeschooling? I can imagine that younger kids are very comfortable with this but what about teenagers? They are so full of anxieties and yet so anxious to belong to peer groups, to have a gang of friends. I guess I find myself asking this last question because I was sent off to a boarding school from the age of 10 and as I was very shy my summers at home were lonely. I had no friends in the neighbourhood, you see. I spent much of my time feeling like an outsider. (This was very good for me intellectually; I spent much of my time reading, doing art and listening to classical music. I also spent a lot of my time with adults. I never did live like a teen until I went to university.)

Why do you feel this way?

Why do folks homeschool? I have read that this is quite a popular movement in the U.S.

P.S. Congratulations on your weight loss, Peaches. You are doing a fabulous job.

LOL I've had mine since last September and I still find myself playing with it.

My father was born Jewish but didn't believe in God. There are two main branches of Jews, the Sephardim and the Ashkhenazim who are the Eastern European Jews. The Ashkhenazim have a bit of genetic material which identifies them as such and so being a Jew is also a matter of birth as well as religion and culture. A great number of famous Jews were/are atheists: Karl Marx and Noam Chomsky are the only names which spring to my mind at the moment. (It is very early for me and I am usually asleep at this hour but today I have an appointment at 9 AM. ugh! This is why I find myself being blonder than usual. ) Bloodlines are very important to the Jewish people and this is why it is only those people whose mothers are Jews who can truly call themselves Jews. The logic behind this is that one knows who the mother is, the father is questionable. This is an ancient law designed long before modern genetic research. My own mother was Scottish and French and this is why I am only considered Jewish to a racist and, sadly enough, I had encountered quite a number of those through my work when I was building aircraft. :phanvan As you may be aware, the Jews have one of the few religions that is not out there seeking new followers and perhaps my explanation may have helped you understand why. You may be interested to know that many devout Jews are very concerned that so many Jews are now marrying outside of the blood. They feel that it is possible that one day the Jews will disappear. Certainly this has happened in my own family. The few survivors of the Holocaust have mostly married gentiles.

LMAO Yep, me too. :heh:

You have made very good points. Thanks from Green.

Yah, the cat is hard work but I guess I am not feeling as vexed as many of the rest of you are. I do find a number of Lee4's topics to be very interesting. He is curious about the possible correlation of poverty and obesity. He is also curious about the fact that so many very young girls seem to be sporting the signs of sexual maturity. (This was the comment which earned him the epithet of perv, by the way.) And he is wondering why these very young girls are entering into sexual maturity - he wonders whether this might have something to do with the growth hormones which are fed into our food animals. As to his questions concerning male-female relationships, well, I have got to admit that I would have been mightily offended by these before I started working in an all male environment. In those days I was a politickally correct individual and a feminist. For the past 25 years, however, I have been building aircraft and working mainly with men. Men have their own worries and concerns and they are as vulnerable as we are in their own way. I guess I don't find Lee4's questions about women and finding a mate all that disturbing because they are typical of the questions which men have asked me. The way I figure it he is a dude who is raising two young sons on his own and he is also part of the lapband community. By his own account he is getting less than zero support from his own family in his work to lose weight. I think of Lee4 as one of our family.

I gotta agree with Marjon. How blonde can any one adult be???? And isn't there a fundamental disparity between being an individual who is committed to following a lifestyle as exemplified by Jesus and prostituting yourself on TV with a bordello's worth of make-up on your face in order to flog a bunch of cheap crappy razz-ma-tazz Jesus-village time share garbage to a clutch of innocent people who have more faith than money or brains? There is a disparity between talking Jesus and living rich and that was something which Tammy Faye surely must have noticed. I cannot believe that this chick was a complete innocent. At some level she was complicit; she must have liked the lifestyle, she must have like the recognition, she must have liked the make-up. She sure as hell wasn't channelling Mother Theresa, was she?

Wow. That is interesting. In my city the garbage thing is quite elaborate. We have one bin for paper goods, another for glass and plastics, another for used paper tissues, sanitary napkins, diapers, leftover food stuffs including uneaten meat and bones, kitty litter, and then anything not covered by the above is considered unrecyclable and is placed in the garbage. We also have a toxic waste pick-up for unused paints and stains, etc. As you can see, the local approach to garbage is quite elaborate. I had a French friend babysitting the house while we were in Turkey and even though I printed out The Rules he almost had a nervous breakdown. :help: haha