green

I believe that this is true. Certainly an examination of history will show that attitudes towards women have been unkind. In fact I have just bought a book on this subject - A Brief History of Misogny. The book is subtitled The World's Oldest Prejudice and it is written by Jack Holland. I haven't had time to read it yet but this is a subject that is close to my heart. I was the eldest kid of three and a tomboy; when I saw my younger brothers getting more respect than myself I was plenty p!ssed off. This was during the 1950s. I saw my father's life as being much freer and more interesting than my mother's life as a housewife and mother and he was the one who received all the respect. I determined that I wanted to live like a man and was furious and heartbroken when I went into an early puberty. I got breasts and my period (and really bad menstrual cramps) when I was 10! Ugh! Most folks are aware of the limitations placed on Muslim women by their men folks; though many of these restrictions are born of traditional practices and not required by the religious precepts, they are still an assault against the equality of women. Some imams teach that it is okay to discipline a fractious wife by smacking her. I have seen these lectures on the internet. Jewish men give thanks to God that they were not born women. Married orthodox Jewish women wear itchy wigs in order not to tempt other men into sexual thoughts by revealing their crowning glory. And women were burnt at the stick accused by the church of being witches. Divorce - the ability to leave an abusive or unsatisfactory marriage - is denied us by many religions. It will be interesting to read what this book has to say on the topic.

That is a cute (and clean) joke and one that has a message: miracles do occur if one has but eyes to see them. Thanks for posting this.

My father was Jewish and most of his family perished in the Holocaust. He was, however, atheist. My mother was very spiritual though she was very loose, very accepting in her beliefs, not at all judgemental. They did have us baptised Anglican - Episcopalian south of the border - because this was during the 1950s and people up here were still concerned about other folk's religious beliefs and activities. Anglican was one of those non-controversial, always in good taste sects, they figured. It was for this reason (the neighbours) that my mum went to church almost every Sunday and sometimes she would drag one of us kids off with her. We never wanted to go. We wanted to hang out at the breakfast table in our pajamas with our dad and aunt. We wanted her to stay home with us, too. Then when I was 10 they sent me away to boarding school. This was run by Anglican nuns and yep, there is such a thing! I briefly got religion and drove my mum mad worrying about my father's eternal soul. This phase lasted about 4-5 months. Then I lapsed into my customary indifference and from there into total disbelief. I was stuck going to that school until I was in my final grade of high school. Then I was expelled for smoking marijuana. I finished off high school at a co-ed school. This was a real culture shock.

Yes, it is my understanding too from my reading of the Bible that God would want us to rejoice in His creation. I am always surprised when some folks have such a joyless take on the wealth of experiences available in this life. It really is pretty amazing, isn't it?

Interesting post. It would be wonderful to learn more about this.

No dancing, no trousers, no make-up, sounds like these churches took the fun out of fundamentalism, eh?

It is very cool and very heartening that everything went off so well in Washington. It seemed from the media coverage that the crowds were dignified and appreciative of being there. That was truly great!

What is the Pentecostal church? Is that the one where people roll around and talk in tongues?

Thanks, folks.

I feel much the same way as you do. I brought up this event for the purposes of debate, in order to show that different folks have different beliefs and that these beliefs can colour their perceptions of the rightness or wrongness of events. Obviously, those crazed fanatics figured that they were going to be sleeping with 72 virgins in paradise right about now. And so do their brother and sister fanatics.

Yes, Green is my family name, too. We do differ in that I am an atheist and thus do not believe in the supernatural. I think all the answers are to be found here on earth. I was raised to be skeptical by my father and this is why I am prone to taking apart and analysing items of received wisdom. I enjoy debate. Though you have been on the receiving end of this, you have not been specifically singled out. What I can say is that you believe that God is Christian and is thus on your side. Those folks who adhere to Islam believe just as fervently that God...Allah is on their side. Who is to say that you are right and the Muslim is wrong? This was my only reason, by the way, for bringing up the events of 9/11. It is only a question of perspective in my view. I must admit that I do find it repellent when the sole survivor of a disaster thanks God for looking out for him. I can only think, oh yeah, buddy, but why you and not all the rest of them? It is far easier to believe in the randomness of luck than to believe in the cruelty of such a super power, I think.

I find this comment about Baptists and dancing very amusing for I also heard this when I was growing up which was a long, long time ago. Apparently the argument went that dancing - especially, I guess, slow dancing - could lead to f**king. And thus there was this joke: why don't Baptists approve of f**king while standing? Coz it could lead to dancing. lol I have never met any Baptists so I don't know whether this is true. Perhaps folks on this board could enlighten us.

DC must have been very, very busy over the past few days.

Up here in Canada, Canadians have been super excited about your new president. I saw coverage of local school kids watching the events on TV, holding school made banners. There have been reports of Canadians making the trek down to Washington in order to participate in your big day. And it is easy to buy Obama t-shirts up here. You can find them in any mall, it seems. His election means a great deal to all Canadians but especially so to Canadians of colour. In short, there sure has been a lot of partying up here north of the border. Congratulations on your brand new President!

Aha! I have never been a morning person. This is one of the reasons I switched careers from office work to blue collar. I wanted to work in the afternoons, the kinder, gentler shift. This is one of the many reasons why I chose not to have kiddies. Everyone says that they are early risers until they hit their teen years.... Have fun at the ROM. It is a great place to go and to take the kids.

I prefer to believe in luck, good and bad, for if we are to praise a God for good luck then logic dictates that we must curse this same individual for instances of bad luck. Good luck was the so-called "miracle on the Hudson" and bad luck was that awful, awful day of 9/11. Or do we believe that Allah was watching over the suicide mission on that day???

That is awfully early. I am still in bed at that time.

It works best if the guy is on the small side and if he takes it very slow. Then I have enjoyed it but it is not high on my list of faves. A lot of foreplay is required to make it work.

Me, too. I just don't believe that it was divine intervention.

My understanding of the situation is that God had little to do with this. It was a question of luck: bad luck that the birds were there in the first place, good luck that the pilot who was flying this plane was so well prepared that he could handle an emergency.

It is too bad that God did not have other plans for all those people who have perished in other aircraft disasters.

Beth, with all the greatest respect, you put the fun back into fundamentalism. Thanks, eh. This much appreciated.

With respect to your second paragraph, and your question "how do you propose that God help the prostitute?" I am entirely unable to answer this. I would be far exceeding my talents and my authority if I were even to attempt to answer such a question. A better question would be what ideas do I, as another human being, have that might serve to improve a social problem? Prostitution may be a sin but it is also a social problem, as is gluttony. Folks who overeat fall sick with a huge variety of ailments and they die prematurely. Their weight issues will affect other people by placing a greater strain on the medical system - something which we all pay for through higher premiums and less availability of medical resources in the end - and on their families. It is difficult and painful for an individual's loved ones to watch him or her become chronically ailing or die prematurely due to gluttony. It is not nice for our kids and it is not nice for our mate. What you call sins are in fact complex issues which often do torment us and are not so easily banished by simple belief, prayer and placing a name - that of Sin - on them. Your on-going argument with Gluttony is evidence of that. This is why these subjects merit discussion and sufficient certain tolerance to permit this discussion. One doesn't have to approve of either gluttony or prostitution to want to know more about how such sins or whatever you want to call 'em persist in flourishing amongst us. And, by the way, I am pleased that the belt is working for you. I was a volume eater (glutton) and the belt was the perfect answer for me.

Re the term fundamentalists/ism: I have been told that this term refers to those Christians who believe in the literal truth of the Bible. They do, for example, believe that the world was created exactly as is described in Genesis and that the flood really did cover the entire world, etc. And many of 'em have their bags packed for their immediate departure on the starship known as the Rapture. Many of them also seemed awfully focused on the sins of others and hellfire. These are the individuals whom I think of when I use the term fundamentalists.

I have, personally speaking, grown tired of Pattygreen's continuous bleatings that prostitution is a sin. This is no way serves to solve what is one of society's problems and is thus quite counterproductive. This seems to be the trouble with many who have chosen the fundamentalist path: they have become so focused on the next life that they ignore this earthly one. Pattygreen herself has taken advantage of one of mankind's little innovations, the lapband, in order to deal with the results of her own besetting sin - Gluttony. Is it not hypocritical to choose to refuse to engage in a discussion about what measures might be available to temper, if not the causes, then at least the effects of another sin - Prostitution? By setting up measures which keep the prostitute (and her johns) safe, one permits her (and her johns) to be alive and healthy for a possible future conversion, yes, even to fundamentalism. I am certain that even Pattygreen's sin-obsessed Lord would approve.