BJean

Glad you asked that TOM. I've never heard the word "intersexed" before.

Carlene: Believe it or not that was the point of my post! I just put the part in about my friend to titillate and to brag a little.

mini me: Sorry if I made you (or anyone here) uncomfortable. But good effort in getting us back to the important stuff! I give up... I have absolutely no idea who said that or in which movie it was said. Tell us please!!!

It isn't a choice and they shouldn't be crucified for it.

Yes indeedy. I will be completely honest here. I had often wondered if homosexuality was a choice, as so many around me had argued from time to time. Once I actually started exploring the idea, reading, listening, talking to gay people I knew, observing, reading more, delving into the possible genetic possibilities that there might just be an extra little sumthin' sumthin' that is present or lacking, it just made no sense whatsoever to believe that true homosexuals are gay by choice. I do think that in my case, for instance, if I had decided to exeriment with my friend, just to see what it was about, I could have done so without being gay. Yup I believe that people can choose to do things that go against their natural instincts. But for those whose natural instincts are homosexual rather than heterosexual, it isn't a choice.

Carlene: I remember distinctly when I realized I was a heterosexual woman. It hit me in the head like a sharp rock. Bam! I knew!!! For Sure!!!! It was when a very dear friend of mine with 2 children, married to an extremely successful and attractive man, who is a 5'10" natural blond beauty (drop dead gorgeous, the kind of woman who when she walks into a room all the talk stops for a few moments and you hear audible gasps while they take in her beauty), hit on me by kissing me on the lips one night as she was leaving my house and then paused to ask (as I was sputtering in shock) if I would please consider going to bed with her. That was it. If I ever had any doubts before, there were never any doubts after that. My answer was a resounding NO! And please do not put me in such an uncomfortable, awkward situation again! GAG!

P.S. If you believe that I think that some of the clergy mentioned above are the only people who are greedy and hateful, you would be incorrect. I was merely pointing out how shocking and abhorrent it is if done by someone who is considered to be deeply religious.

Yes indeed, all manner of people can be mean and greedy. And it is never a good thing. You must admit however that for someone who claims to live in the light of Jesus the Lord and our Savior, and who speaks from a position of great influence by representing their church and its doctrine of loving the Lord and spreading the word of the Bible, greed and meanness are truly abhorrent.

Oh Karen, I am so very sorry about your dad. Please know that I am sending good thoughts your way. I have been through cancer with my mother and sister and it is a tough road. My heart goes out to you and your entire family.

Good. I like that analogy Carlene. It makes perfect sense.

How is leaving off the phrase "In God We Trust" threatening anyone's rights? I can understand how some people find it distasteful to make that kind of change, especially nowadays when there is such a right-wing movement to fight against anything that doesn't pledge that God is part of the United States Government. But I don't understand how it does anything to abridge anyone's rights. I thought this was all settled and everyone knew that it was an error that has resulted in a recall of those coins? I have one of these new dollar coins and it clearly has "In God We Trust" on it.

The threat will turn from orange to red. Security will again be tightened in airports. People will probably start getting personally frisked - maybe even xrayed, and they'll definitely panic and march right along like good little Christian soldiers.

Karen: I have to tell you that I am very impressed with your posts. Very. It isn't easy for one to not be judgmental about someone with such polar opposite opinions as one's own. But it is important if we are to ever reach some compromises that work for the greater good for the people of the U.S.A. I have Jewish friends who are terribly frightened about the way Bush and his administration have made many decisions during their tenure, and how they continue to manipulate and use their power to get more power and make themselves richer than ever. My Jewish friends are some of the first to tell me that we shouldn't be so sure that what happened in Germany can't happen here. Perhaps not involving Jews specifically, but against people who do not share this administration's right-wing religious and political beliefs. I want you to know how much I appreciate your son's service to this country. What is his job now in Iraq? I have seen several reports on TV about people in Iraq who appreciate our presence there. (Those reporters weren't even working for the Fox network!) I do know that blood and mahem get more viewers than showing nice things. It has always been that way. I'm not so sure that the media homes in on the bad stuff because of politics. I think it has much more to do with grabbing the most viewers. The one thing I definitely wanted to say though is that I congratulate you for your soft, considerate and well thought out posts

My bags aren't packed yet, but I have them down from the attic.

They turned tragedy into victory - but not victory for this country, that is for darned sure - personal victory for themselves. And because of politics, and supposed patriotism, the public joined in and marched to their tune. The way their tune has been played, constantly since 9-11, the people are finally understanding, thank God.

Are you as reliable as Kevin? Have you built your ark?

Was anybody watching when George W. Bush, the president of the United States of America, was standing before the 9-11 workers who were charged with cleaning out the "rubble" of the disaster? I was and when one of the workers shouted out, "We can't hear you!" and Bush snapped (yes, snapped) back in a very condescending way, "Well I can hear you!" I knew without a doubt that Bush was irritated that someone had interrupted him and yelled out while he was trying to talk. That the media could turn this event around and make it into a positive thing for Bush is only one example of how and why Giuliani has been able to turn 9-11 into a politically positive thing for himself. I remember too. It makes me sick to my stomach, but I remember.

I was gonna say that you better learn to pack a pistol, TommyO, but TOM's suggestion is even better.

L8BlooomR: Thanks for your post. It is so difficult sometimes to know that other people have such opposing views when for the life of you, it doesn't make sense. If we all agreed I suppose we could share peace, love and understanding and reach nirvana one day...the extinction of all desires and passions. But that might just be too boring for some after what we've all been through in this fast-paced, crazy, greed-driven world. As far as George Herbert Walker is concerned, I frankly think he's a much better man than his sons. Maybe I'm wrong and he was just more discreet, or maybe it's all about the checks and balances he had to put up with in Congress during his presidency. The Iran Contra affair should have been a lesson to us about how easily power can be abused. We don't seem to have learned much from any of our past mistakes. Many of us trust our elected officials to do the right thing. Especially when we are assured that they are righteous, church-going people. (I'm getting to the point that when someone goes on and on about what a great Christian they are, I slowly back away.) Not learning from our past mistakes is one of the interesting things about stuff handed down from one generation to another. My children, for instance, are like a lot of young people today who don't understand the two-party system. They claim to vote just for "the man." No matter what I say, they don't understand how important the party's adopted platform can be. They haven't lived and experienced a time when abortion was done in dirty back rooms or in a woman's bathtub with a coat hanger. They haven't lived when we had to line up on certain days of the week to by gasoline. They'e never lived where they were ostracized for having a different or no religious affiliation. They haven't even lived when mortgage interest rates were 17% and many, many people couldn't qualify to own a home. I guess I'm sounding too much like my parents and I should just ramble on down the road to my ultra-convenient laundry room, after which I can jump in my Lexus and go to the market where fabulous foods are prepared for my evening meal and then ramble over to the mall to pick up a few goodies at Nordstrom. After all, I'm very lucky, my DH works for a defense contractor. Life is good. Much better than when the Democrats were in control.

Bitter: Love the moniker. You live up to it here. And who can blame you!! What so many corporations have done in the past 10 to 15 years to their employees is disgraceful. And should be illegal. Greed. Pure and simple. My Dad (a great old political Okie) always preached to his kids about loyalty to ones employers. I in turn have tried to instill that idea into my own kids. But times have changed. The employers are not loyal to their workers and they do not treat them fairly. No wonder kids today have no sense of loyalty to the companies that employ them. They quickly move to the highest bidder without a second thought. The greed factor filters down all through our society.

AMEN! I love this place and I enjoy every thread I have time to read. Please don't ever get rid of Rants and Raves because it is a great learning tool. I wouldn't be nearly as calm and satisfied with my band if it weren't for sharing and comparing notes with all the other September Bandsters on our thread. This is such a well-run forum and the participants and moderators are very sharp people. Thanks!!

Think the Libertarians will split the vote again?

Are you familiar with the Patriot Act? What about what he's done to the prisoners in Guantanamo? He has appointed a couple of people to the Supreme Court who are so far right that it has very scary implications for some of the freedoms that I hold dear. I was around when his dad pulled the Iran Contra thing and believe me if George Herbert Walker is capable of doing illegal things because he decided it was right for the country, then Dubya is capable of them and more. He has had the power of a Republican Congress behind him all the way. That's the main reason he was able to pull off this war. There haven't been any checks and balances and he has more power than any president that I've been aware of. It is frightening! I am sure there are several people (like TOM) who can pull stuff off the 'net and prove my point. I don't use that resource to back up my opinions because I figure that my opinoins are just that... opinions. I suppose if you were to challenge me I might care enough to go find sources, but I am not that invested here. I enjoy this forum a whole lot. I learn a lot every day here. From all sides. But I don't want to get into any p$$$ing contests. I participated in one of those earlier and although I learned a lot there, it was too frustrating. Made my port bulge.

I think Rudy is very vulnerable in a race. I wouldn't mind if they ran him. Maybe they'll run John McCain and Rudy in the VP position. They both have a lot of charisma. Something I wish a couple of the Demos had more of.

TommyO: Was it Jack who said it? I feel like I should know this... darn! And you're a rascal for having fun in the sun! Lucky youse guys!