BJean

Great points to ponder Wheet because that's exactly where a lawyer would go with this until he finally reached the Supreme Court with one argument or other. TOM: I don't have a short temper. I do have strong thoughts on this subject. I never drink and drive, but I did once. I was with my two best friends and we went to dinner at a fun Mexican restaurant. One was visiting with me from Orlando, the other from Denver. We started off with a couple of margaritas over dinner. Then another one after dinner. Then the restaurant said we'd had enough margaritas. So we ordered beers. We were having such a fantastic reunion, and everything was so hilarious. The next thing we knew, the restaurant was closing. We'd started this little party at 6 PM and it was now 11:00. We had no choice but to take the party home and continue our catching up on the good times we'd been missing. I drove us home over the back roads and we reached my house safe and sound, but I have no idea how I did it. I have no memory of the drive at all. I could very easily have run into a tree or a ditch or another car or a house, for that matter. If I had killed or injured one of those women, I couldn't have lived with the pain. It was absolutely not the restaurant or waiters fault that I drank and drove. They were not responsible for my irresponsibility! All I would have had to do was call my husband and he would have come to get us. People are so quick to blame everyone else when something goes wrong in their lives. You should have been more responsible and not have agreed to a third drink and the ones that followed. There are bad bartenders, no doubt about that. You should realize that before ever ordering the first drink, but if we pass a law that says that the bartender is responsible for your bad behavior, what is the motivation for you to take the responsiblity for yourself when you're sitting at a bar? Blame it on the bartender because he forced you to buy drinks? Really? I never said that the bartender shouldn't be taught to learn when a person has had too much to drink. They should learn it and they should get into trouble (lose their liquor license, pay a stiff fine, etc.) if they knowingly serve someone who is drunk. But we are responsible for our own behavior, we shouldn't expect anyone else to take the blame for our own supidity and weaknesses. I am glad that Mother's Against Drunk Driving and others have brought the problem of drunk drivers to an awareness that may prevent people from drinking and driving. Better enforcement of the laws about driving while intoxicated is vital in the process of people being more responsible public drinkers. The whole concept of having a designated driver has caught on with much of the younger generation. Strike one for the MADD organization! Sorry you were taken advantage of by an unscrupulous bartender, but you did learn a lesson and I'll bet you won't make that mistake again. Fortunately, you didn't harm anyone in the process. But if you had hurt someone, it wouldn't have mattered to you very much if the bartender had been punished. Your life would have probably been ruined, and that of the person you harmed.

Frankly I'd like to give him his Christmas goose early!

I continue to be amazed at how many Americans still think Bush and his administration are nice, smart, well-intended people. Meanwhile our basic rights in this country are being taken away, bit by bit. I haven't read a lot of books on how things unfolded in Germany in the beginning when Hitler first started getting the Germans to agree with his actions, but it had to have seemed like he was a good and decent man for him to have gained the German citizens' trust like Bush has gained the trust of some Americans. I am sure some of you will consider me an alarmist. You'd be right. I am not a young idealistic person. I've seen a lot in my lifetime and we should be very afraid of Bush and his backers. We can no longer suspect that he is the bad guy, he has proven himself to be the bad guy.

I agree with BubbleButt on this one. Bartenders should be charged with the task of not serving alcoholic drinks to a person whom he believes has had too many drinks already, but it shouldn't be lesgislated. If you make the bartender responsible for people who over-imbibe, we may as well tell people that they can go into a bar and not worry about getting drunk because the bartender is going to make that decision for them. That takes the responsibility off the shoulders of the person who is doing the drinking (and possible driving) where it should be. Unless you want bartenders to have the job of being law enforcers, instead of law followers, it just isn't right to blame them for someone leaving their bar and getting in a car and driving while drunk. First of all, how and when and by what standards are you going to train all bartenders to make the determination of whether a person has had too many drinks? What kind of weapon will a bartender be able to use when someone becomes unruly and decides to challenge the bartender? Law enforcement is what police are charged with - not bar owners. Police are trained to handle people who break the law. Bartenders are not and I don't want them to be. A person should be able to open a business, operate within the current laws and have reasonable business practices without having to become a law enforcer. Anyone who drinks and drives should be responsible for breaking the law.

lethea g: That is simply wonderful! What a huge and important step for you to take in your life. It couldn't have been the easiest thing you ever did, but I know you are so thankful that you took that step.

P.S.S. You are not the only gay person posting at LB Talk. Not the only Born Again either. You might be the only 40-something born again gay man, raising 2 teenagers, whose better half is also 40-something and now sporting a band. I'm not sure about that either though.

MsDad: Glad to have you aboard. There are only one or two actual bashers here. They are very passionate about certain topics. You need to be aware that this area is labeled Rants and Raves and we all feel free to rave on... and on and on sometimes. It is refreshing to be able to vent and argue and still be friends. After all blest be the tie that binds. The bands being the tie that binds. Pun intended. :mad: So you didn't ask, but my advice is, don't take any of us too seriously. We really aren't mean, just opinionated and vocal because this is just the forum for it. Besides, we are all probably struggling a little with the fact that we can't turn to food when we get all "het up." Good luck on your journey to bandland. P.S. I am glad you settled the question of chance or choice!

laurend: I have no idea what the stats are and I believe they would be difficult to get. But my experiences tell me that while there are many churches that do very good work and that are not governed by greed and power, there are many churches that have become so obsessed with their power, they do not practice the basic teachings of Jesus. Some of them may not have physical churches but there are many televangelists who bear this out. In fact, I would probably venture to say that all televangelists are obsessed with material things and power. They are quite different from a church that is supported by, and for the most part run by, the people in the community it serves, presumably as in the case of lethea g's church.

lethea g: That is a beautiful story about your experiences within your church! It sounds like you are surrounded by many good, loving people. I am sure that they are thankful that you are in their lives as well. I completely agree that it can be a very personal thing to attend church and worship God. That was one of the things I appreciated so much in the Catholic Church. It was a very spiritual setting compared to the other churches I had been a member of earlier in my life (Methodist, First Christian and Southern Baptist, which were all much more social than spiritual.) I love to witness churches that actually go out into the community and help others with their work, time and money, like yours does. Too many churches collect money and use it to build bigger churches, buy more elaborate pews and more expensive choir robes. My Dad used to rail about our church always raising money for a bigger and more elaborate church. He thought the money should go to helping people in need. Our large church already sat vacant almost all of 6 days out of 7. That was an enormously expensive bit of real estate to maintain just to have it sit there not being used, when there were people in our community who were destitute without electricity and running Water. I saw his point. It is very heart warming to learn what a great personal relationship you share with the other members of your church. I am very happy for you.

HoneyLin: Great that you are doing well and happy with your band!

karey: I read on another thread that you were going to do the Thermage and I remembered that when you got back you posted that it was painful. Then later I read another post from someone else who also said that it was painful. I believe you also said you might do it again and that you're happy with the results. I don't remember the name of the subsequent treatment similar to Thermage that is now being done that is not supposed to be so painful. Do you know the name of that one? I can't remember which thread that was on. I am glad to know that you are getting good results from your treatment. Do they predict how long the effects are supposed to last? Best wishes for your TT and B-lift. Will you have them done at the same time? Cool that your son is enjoying Montreal!! There's so much about it that feels exotic and French and historical. Will he plan to work for Cirque de Soliel when he is finished? How long is that course? We were there for only 2 years + a little bit. My husband was doing some consulting work for a company in St. Jean sur Richlieu, which is very French. I'm not sure I would have survived as well if we had lived there. We lived in the Anglo part of Montreal (on the west side) on the 18th floor of a high rise overlooking the mountain and beautiful old houses on the hillside. Do you plan another visit before your son comes back to the states?

Aaaaahhhh. The truth comes out. Green is no novice at this beauty business! Good show, darlin'!

Green I appreciate you pointing out to me that being small has its benefits too. I usually buy the smallest size they have of a particular shoe and it is usually the one that is on display. I don't even have to wait for a clerk to help me when I see a pair I like. :welldoneclap:

TOM: you ARE just using pornography to illustrate a point, aren't you? Not that there's anything wrong with that.... I'm just sayin' s all... :welldoneclap:

Smart man, that husband of yours! Mine said that after I lose weight, if I still want one, he'll go for it. Yeah, a small car is right! But I've looked tired for quite a while. I don't want the grimace mouth or deer in headlights eyes, just something to make me look like I think I look. Until I see myself in photos, that is. Have you heard of Thermage? I'd be up for that except that everyone who has had it talks about how painful it is. You will only be uncomfortable for a little while with the lift, right? It can't be as bad as a friend of mine who had a very extensive chemical peel. It wound up leaving scars. Her husband has more money than God, so I never understood how she wound up with such a stupid doctor. She was prettier before the peel than after. :cry

Sorry Wheet. You're not getting any sympathy from the likes of my 5'1" small-boned frame. You have lots of hair, curly even. Mine is straighter than if you flat-ironed it, fine as a wisp of wind, and started thinning after 4 months post-op. It isn't even growing well yet. I'm eating my protein! When I gained weight, no one noticed my small frame anymore. Until they saw my little bitty feet. They started commenting on them, asking how I don't fall over, and I began to tell them that when I was a baby my mother bound my feet, hoping they wouldn't notice that my wrists and hands are tiny too. You sound healthy and attractive and so does your DH. My Dad's father was Welsh and his mother was Cherokee. Maybe you and I are related.

Dynamomini: Good plan. If there was a flesh colored duct tape, I'd give it a try. You are in luck if bread is a weakness. Bread is one of the things that the band will discourage you from eating.:cry I've never been a bread lover so my wish was that the band would discourage me from eating ice cream. It tends to like it as much as I do. Aaargh!:welldoneclap:

P.S. Green the bagels we found at a downtown indoor market in Montreal were unbelievable! They made them in front of our eyes and were so fantastic that I used to take them to friends in Orlando when I flew down for visits. I was nearly attacked several times by other airline passengers because of the aroma of warm bagels. These days with airlines no longer feeding passengers, I would no longer take that chance!

Gobble, gobble. Which is pretty funny when I think of it. Just a few months ago I got Synvisc injections in my knees... how appropriate! It's made from rooster comb.

Ok Green, now I'm completely spun up with jealousy. Not only is Green's significant other younger, he has been blessed by the hunky god, or god of hunkiness. As you can tell, BJean is not equal to Green's "smarty pants" intellect or she would not be stuck with a guy who is only 6 months her junior, who is beginning to suffer from some of the same ailments as BJean, i.e., roscea, arthritis, thinning hair, etc. But to be absolutely fair to the DH, all the other girls in the yard still like to chase him. One of BJean's recently single high school classmates was overheard to say at a reunion not so long ago, that BJean's husband should be cloned. :welldoneclap:

Green I am so jealous I am green with envy. 'cuse the expression. Seriously. I have wanted a face lift for several years. Needed one even longer. My neck is disgusting, have jowls like you wouldn't believe and eyes like I just crawled out of bed. Otherwise, I'm quite attractive. :embarassed: If they would lift some of the midrift about 6 inches, I might pass for Pamela - at least in the boob department. You're a blonde so you have more to worry about there... think of it... getting mistaken for her on a nice warm Mexican beach, getting hit on by all those attractive Latin margarita mixers. What's the worry, now that I think about it!? Are you doing this soon? How long since your LB surgery? Weren't you banded in September? I thought we were supposed to wait 2 years before we have any other surgery? I have noticed that there are several September bandsters who are having TTs, etc. Are you getting the full face lift? I'm positively green, Green!

I don't think the pre-op diet is that tough, really. The first few days are a big adjustment but after that it seems to get much easier. You know why it is important, don't you? They want to shrink your liver so that it won't be so vulnerable during surgery. I didn't even know that cutting out sugar, etc., would shrink your liver that fast. They told me I needed to lose from 7 to 10 lbs. I lost 7.

Hey Carlene: As long as it's a fair fight in the voting rituals, I'm all for putting things to a vote. But the problem is that many times the fight isn't fair. Without me having to reiterate what I have earlier argued, you do understand that this is why I have said what I have about clerical influence, corruption in elections (meaning the actual voting process itself), outright lying by politicians and popular media people, lying by elected officials, etc., etc., don't you? By the way, the cannabalistic Indians in Mexico (probably near where Green is going :heh: ) weren't interested in trading their carved animals for my little boy. (Except maybe for supper, but I didn't ask. He would have made a sweet, plump little morsel for their stew!) Green, the carved animals that I'm talking about are not the kind that are painted and made of a somewhat porous wood. They carve them from a very hard (perhaps somewhat petrified) wood that is polished to an extremely smooth, hard finish with no hard edges and no defined details. Look for them while you're down there. They are exquisite. I too suffer in the sun. My natural hair color is mousy, reddish brown and I have the Irish skin of my grandfather instead of the beautiful easy to tan native American Indian skin of my both mother and my father. My white legs would put the eyes out of anyone who might accidentally spot them in the gleaming Mexican sun. I wouldn't be caught dead in shorts or a swimsuit without a spray on tan of some sort. Thinking of the greater good!

Green: I went to a "Fat Farm" in Vermont when we lived in Montreal. They were anti-meat and the menu everyday consisted of high carb content foods. Sugar wasn't on a no-no list with them. Just no far or meat. I didn't gain weight during that month, but I only lost 7 lbs. and had stepped up my exercise by about 60%. For breakfast they served mostly bagels with a tablespoon of natural peanut butter. When I got home I looked up the calorie content and I could have had some scrambled eggs and half a piece of toast for that. I learned a lot at that boot camp they called a spa (HA) and one of the big lessons was that too many carbs are not my friend.

Good point Wheetsin. My point is, if you attend church every Sunday and your pastor interprets the Bible and relates it to daily activities and preaches to the congregation over and over on how they should live their lives, and preaches over and over about what the doctrine of the church says is right, you're pretty well going to know how your church and how your minister expects you to vote on issues and for people. Some preachers stand up and tell you exactly how he thinks you should vote and some are not so obvious. There may be some exceptions, but one can say generally that people do get voting instructions in church. I am continually amazed at the number of people who say they do not.