Jack

just back from out of town, I haven 't been able to post let alone see ads....message was sent to support re questions. Standing by

While a bit of a surprise, were it "me" in that situation, I'd try to use it as opportunity to "live the Bandster lifestyle" and find ways to modify my eating behavior "as if" Banding had in fact occurred. Exploration of those hidden and often denied behavioral activities relating to our Morbid Obesity have to be accomplished in any event, whether Banded or not, IMHO. Whoever we choose to do surgery, or get it done at all, is less important in the long run, than finding a way to move our spirit along with our body, ever towards the goal we have. "Healthy eating habits" is a difficult goal for any Bandster to achieve. Using the tools we have accumulated is essential in all phases of achieve control of our Belly Beasts. Developing newer and ever-more effective means of accomplishing our goals requires discipline and daily focused effort. Cheers on your journey.

Welcome to LBT Brandon. You raise lots of questions that can be easily surveyed by reviewing nearly any thread in many forums. Sipping calorie filled liquids and eating beyond satiety level, is a change you will welcome if you are serious about the entire WLS program. If you are Morbidly Obese, you will have the opportunity to reprogram and reeducate yourself about a new life style. There is nothing that tastes as good as being thinner feels. I was Morbidly Obese much of the preOp 40 years, despite all my efforts to the contrary. Your use of the term "vomit" suggests involuntary expulsion of stomach contents, with digestive juices and the mess commonly associated with a drunk throwing up in his own back seat....that isn't what usually happens to Bandsters, as most of those episodes are related to the contents of the upper stomach and esophagus above the Band. And most commonly it is self induced by an error of eating caused by the Bandster's own mistake. Keep reading and researching; you'll find a great resource here to help you get some answers. Cheers on your journey.

It is sad to learn of such difficulties old Bandster Buddies are having. So far my own seems to be trundling along with minimal issues other than episodic fickleness and occasion mass gacking for a few days. My Internist recently advised against further fill at this time due to an imaging study 2 years ago showing motility issues and mucosal thickening. Placement seems proper and generally is pretty well behaved. I haven't attempted the 'stress-by-pregnancy' test yet and will avoid such as long as possible.... I'd be most interested in your ongoing seminars on hardware and updated surgical options should you care to share them. I'm convinced there IS a way to dump the remaining 'weight to goal' by at LEAST another 20 # and then retire with ample satisfaction from the ongoing battle. Perhaps I should regard my plateau of the past 3+ years as a GOOD thing. My internist tells me this point may be "as good at it gets". cheers to us all and best wishes for the coming struggles

great post Redhead!!! Our postOp journey takes us through many lands; my own sudden realization of how overeating was related to emotional crisis was quite a surprise. Yes, having a therapist can help in our journey. Seek one out. LBT for me was an incredibly rich resource for learning what others had encountered. I found an interesting conflict in my own binging. The notion of responding to stress/pain/conflict/confusion/anger by overeating, or by just eating without being hungry, was my defense in a hostile world. The odd thing was, while pretending the allure of marvelous food, dragged me unwillingly into overeating, the sense of 'control' while swallowing, justified the act of overeating....although that isn't what I started the binge feeling, that was where I arrived after suffering many episodes. Eventually, that gnawing hunger that never left and was never satisfied regardless of what/how much I crammed down, responded magnificently, to the Band. With the realization that I could respond to emotional crisis without overeating, and that the 'fear' of becoming hungry was not a catastrophe, my postOp journey become a kind of Paradise Regained. We all go through many phases in our journey. Just keep moving the the direction you want to go and don't worry about the small stuff. When you get a rock in your boot, take it out; when you come to an obstacle, remind yourself that Water always makes it to the sea regardless. You can do it. Cheers in your journey

re: "I will remember to remind who ever is doing the fill, that it is a 4cc band. So just a slight fill will do." yes, usually mere .1 or .2cc worked incredibly effectively on my 4cc band. Once they put .25 in during the early phases & it proved to be too much all at once.

54S: congratulations on continuing your Bandster journey despite the obstacles. I have the 4cc Band, which remains in service since 2004. I've had a few episodes of being 'too tight', and some periods where I thought I was "too loose". I had been in the 1.5-1.7cc fill volume, but the last few adjustments my provider has refused to tell me the amounts. 2 years ago I had a serious extended episode that concerned me greatly. Finally imaging demonstrated some issues with mucosal thickening and motility issues. I had recently scheduled a new adjustment-probably tiny fill-but consult with my Internist this very week has advised me to not do such. I remain down a total of over 100#, but of which 'only' 60 can be attributed to the Band. Intended goal was down to 225, which we all now consider an unrealistic idealized goal. I believe I can loose another 20, even though at plateau these past few years. I remain at less weight than graduating high school during the JFK administration, so I am not entirely unhappy. Relatively few issues worth complaining about. After 15 years on insulin injections twice daily and CPAP 10 years, I remain on oral meds and no nose hose. My recent blood work is as good as it's been in 40 years. I haven't managed to slip into size 40 pants yet, but the 42/44s are a satisfactory improvement from the 56/58 day of surgery. Cheers on our journey!!!

re: "Thinking about what sounds good and what i'm going to have as opposed to what is healthy" somewhere along the way, as Jachut so eloquently wrote, I simply got fed up with "jamming my gob" on both a physical and metaphysical level. When I see that 400#er cruising by stuffing themselves with various concoctions of slow death frappe' and another bagOstickyBuns, it am relieved it isn't ME there doing that anymore. And while I do have something way too easy and way too not-healthy, I no longer live to eat. I no longer by 2 loaves of fresh bakery bread so one will make it home. Somewhere the "Thinking about what sounds HEALTHY and what i'm going to have that is GOOD for me" kicked into a daily reality. And while there are omissions of good eating behavior, and remissions of a day where profane non-food somehow makes it down my gullet, it isn't very often. I no longer go to sleep planning tomorrow's assault on whatever food might be laying about, and I no longer awake where the first thing on my mind is how to arrange being able to eat all day long without interruption. Some of that ungodly food urge was resultant from the hormonal imbalance related to injecting 100 units of insulin twice daily over 15 years. Some of it was simple gluttony and the dreadful consequence of 'Sport Eating' taken to the extreme. Somewhere along the line my brain gained better dominance over the belly beasts that had controlled my eating habit for decades. In a way, I suppose "food addiction" shares similarities to other substance abuse issues. Discovering that 'eating' is not the same as "overeating", and that "not full" is not the same as "hungry" were huge improvements in life. Learning there are subtle nuances I long ignored, astonished me. I had long reacted to the fear of becoming hungry by over eating. I will repeat that phrase, as even today I regard it as central to my own Morbid Obesity: the FEAR of BECOMING hungry drove me into compulsive overeating, independent of any actual appetite or 'hunger' itself. Once I could identify "hungry" and "not hungry" the battle turned in my favor. I think it was a form of "food autism" in that I could neither recognize nor react to actual 'hunger' because I would eat to avoid feeling hungry. Pure psychoemotional non physiological self reinforcing eating behavior unrelated to 'hunger'. In fact, preOp I did become overwhelmed by panic attacks and anxiety episodes. SO identification of the irrational and changing my own eating behavior with the assistance of the Band, is my laborious response to your question. But in spite of the occasional glitch, PB or other annoying unexpected episodic fickleness, my Little Angel of the Silicon Fist, my Symbiant, has moved me away from all that. Cheers on our journey, fellow Bandsters

re: "I am not a patient person " Who is? re: "The only problem I seem to have is when I eat too fast I get some pain. " disagree.....when we over eat, at whatever speed it is, that is the problem re: "I'm not as hungry as I was before." great!!! re: "restriction" I my case at least....the opportunity to use my brain to direct my eating behavior was a new and painfully learned event. I grew up (and OUT) actually training my ever-increasing appetite to gulp moreMoreMORE ever faster to increase my obesity by overeating nearly every meal. And still I couldn't eat enough to be "full". "Sport eating" is one thing, but uncontrolled success at that produces Morbid Obesity. Here we are. We have to learn the 'restriction' is in our minds, on our own eating behavior and what in we learn to choose to do. The pain of gulping food down will change to the pain of being stuck and slimming as PB'ing as the Os decreases. We must embrace our new selves and help in our own reemergence. Once I recognized the metaphysical aspects of my overeating behavior, the discipline became easier. And even ~not-patient *I* my Royal Self~ have become far more patient in eating better. cheers in your journey

Other than the obvious "I didn't even WANT coffee at first" after a couple weeks my surgeon gave me the OK to use it a bit.

while these are very few for me, I too just accept the fact and find some liquid protein and enjoy the variety. The richness of otherwise inexplicable finicky Band behavior rewards us regardless of occasional frustration.

"I'm eating soup when I'm not even hungry." We must find the strength and discipline to use our new tool. The Band has taught me a lot about my old habit of 'sport eating'. Being able to recognize the actual process of when we eat unrelated to 'hunger' is a step towards our success. re: "I'm also at 4 weeks with NO binging." Congratulations. It takes many such steps in our journey. You can do it!!!

Early postOp we are unfamiliar with both the "had ENOUGH" signal as well as "you really ARE hungry" message. We are used to being physically herded about by Belly Beasts that strive to control us as well as insisting they be in charge of eating as much as possible as often as possible regardless of hunger. Awareness of the more quiet voice that really is associated with 'hunger coming on' which trigger 'eating' rather than 'hunger MIGHT attack us' so we better 'eatEatEAT'. Learning the little signals and taking little amounts, gradually our brain learns how to control our belly regardless of "tastes so good". I love the sensation of recognizing "enough" in spite of whatever it was "tasting so good".

re: "What the hell happens if I am in work or worse yet in a restuarant?!! What do you do? " there are 2 kinds of Bandsters.....those who have PB'd......and those who haven't....yet..... You'll learn how to handle it, usually there is some slight warning. The 'soft stop' used to be a term we used to identify the 'early warning: your pouch is FULL so quit eating NOW dummy'.....for slow learners such as myself, who initially ignored such, the "hard stop: yes you ARE stuck are you happy?" is an experience that teaches one to modify our eating behavior. That kind of lesson can not really be transferred to another, it must be experienced first hand to have real meaning. Another tip: despite how well you think you are doing otherwise, do NOT try to eat chicken and talk on the phone at the same time! Don't ask how I know this. Almost all my PBs were resultant from my own hard headed 'Errors of Eating' that took a while to retrain to Bandster style needs. My very first REAL 'stuck' episode was with the small triscuits...a favorite snack I was able to gradually reintroduce about 8 weeks postOp....only somehow I managed to try to chew 2 or 3 at the same time.... Yes, leaning over the sink, trying to decide whether to call 911 or my surgeon's office. Fortunately one of his secretaries was about 4 months postOp and gave me some first hand tips. Learn how to nibble. Learn how to chew VERY Well. Nibble-->chew VERY well...to the point of slurry....THEN carefully swallow. It took me about 10 minutes at first to eat a saltine. Exercise: Nibble---chew---->nibble nibble--->>>chew chewchew chew. Check for actual hunger signal and "WHY am I eating this now"....swallow carefully. Go do something non-food related. Come back in 20 minutes. Check for 'hunger' vs 'sport eating' ..... cheers on your journey

I was about 18 months postOp before I hazarded even trying ground beef. To me it resembled more ground cardboard, and I was obsessed with removing all the gristle and unidentifiable other stuff that my chewing could not reduce to a paste. A normal grilled patty would end up with a golf-ball sized wad that I simply could not bring myself to even try to swallow. Perhaps I was over zealous. In any case, it was a couple years before I actually ~enjoyed~ ground beef. Ground turkey I was ok. Higher grade ground beef I was better that the econo stuff as there was more roughage than I expected to find. I used a food processor a lot to puree suspicious meats, as the dread I had of another major 'stuck' episode weighed on me. Again I was perhaps over zealous there too.

If you noticed your tongue also being coated in a thick white stuff, you were in ketosis. When the body chemistry shifts from the normal pathway of glyconeogenesis to fat burning glycolosis and starts converting the glycogen/fat of the old stored cheeseburgers around our waists, bad breath occurs. It actually is a good thing, showing we are going into the phase we need to enter in our early postOp recovery. We typically will be losing at a faster pace during this period. Be sure to drink PLENTY of Water during this period. Check out "Krebs cycle" in Guytons Physiology for a thrilling update on digestive processes on a most basic level, if academic medical texts don't put you in a coma. Once we return to a non-ketotic higher calorie intake of above around the 4-500 level, that odor will disappear over a few days. For those doing an actual true *fast*, the tongue will return to a sweet tasting pink as the coating goes away with the odor.

If you noticed your tongue also being coated in a thick white stuff, you were in ketosis. When the body chemistry shifts from the normal pathway of glyconeogenesis to fat burning glycolosis and starts converting the glycoben/fat of the old stored cheeseburgers around our waists, bad breath occurs. It actually is a good thing, showing we are going into the phase we need to enter in our early postOp recovery. We typically will be losing most of our weight daily during this period. Be sure to drink PLENTY of Water during this period. Check out "Krebs cycle" in Guytons Physiology for a thrilling update on digestive processes on a most basic level, if academic medical texts don't put you in a coma. Once we return to a non-ketotic higher calorie intake of above around the 4-500 level, that odor will disappear over a few days. For those doing an actual true *fast*, the tongue will return to a sweet tasting pink as the coating goes away with the odor.

If you noticed your tongue also being coated in a thick which stuff, you were in ketosis. When the body chemistry shifts from the normal pathway of glyconeogenesis to fat burning glycolosis and starts converting the glycoben/fat of the old stored cheeseburgers around our waists, bad breath occurs. It actually is a good thing, showing we are going into the phase we need to enter in our early postOp recovery. We typically will be losing most of our weight daily during this period. Be sure to drink PLENTY of Water during this period. Check out "Krebs cycle" in Guytons Physiology for a thrilling update on digestive processes on a most basic level, if academic medical texts don't put you in a coma. Once we return to a non-ketotic higher calorie intake of above around the 4-500 level, that odor will disappear over a few days. For those doing an actual true *fast*, the tongue will return to a sweet tasting pink as the coating goes away with the odor.

re: scrambled eggs One of my worst day-long slime/PB fits was from scrambled eggs and grits. Just 2 bites keep me kacking for about hours and 250 miles of otherwise enjoyable country scenery. re: jerky I was terrified of this for the first 2 or 3 years postOp, then finally tried some buffalo jerky. Surprisingly it worked fine. If carefully chewed it works well for me. re: chicken remains an 'iffy' meal; sometimes yes, sometimes no. Sometimes I can eat almost one whole long-style nugget, almost never 1 whole one as I get TOO full. If I don't chew thoroughly I get stuck and PB for an hour or so. Sometimes grilled a small thigh is a delight. I'm not a big fan of chicken these days. Having enough hard dense high Protein continues to be the best way I can remain satisfied for 3 or 4 hours.

Write off those kinds of comments as "well intended but pitifully uninformed". One of the groups of people I ran into were all concerned that they knew more than the doctors, the patient, or those on the LBT forum who all have thousands of times more experience. We live in an age where the choices seem to be live in total anonymity or having the entire town butt in to our private business. Many will seek to comfort you, and some will try to encourage you, while others are bent on sharing horrid stories that have little or nothing in common with your situation. Learning how to live in your own postOp world is part of the exciting New Life we can all construct for ourselves. Who you tell and IF your tell anyone is YOUR business. I live in a small town so if I lose track of what I'm actually doing I can ask someone on Main Street who doesn't know me and THEY will have an opinion as to how I should live my live. Cheers on your journey!

Early postOp we all have to consider what our surgeon tells us to do. As we heal and our bodies turn towards "Now what?" along with our mental/emotional/rational sides, the very concept of "satisfied " is the most essential part of our postOp life. Learning to notice that small quiet voice will give us a new wonderful experience. Prepare for becoming reacquainted with the old long lost friends of 'satiety' 'satisfied' and 'not hungry'.

Looks like you have a good handle on the Whole Idea! I like how you've organized the concepts....except re: "Stage 6 - You cheated with some food that you know darn well that you shouldn't have eaten!" Except for the early restrictions postOp, Bandster Life is not like any other 'diet world'.... Bandsters can and do eat nearly any imaginable kind of food. More important, it's the amount we eat, and the reason we we eat that is far more important than 'what' we eat....although the 'twinkies-ice cream-cookies' theme of course must be rationally moderated.

re: "what your "full" feelings are and how you know when to stop eating?" perhaps the largest change in my own eating habits was discovering the wonders of the difference between "hungry" and "not hungry". Full is an illusion that I have ranted about in the past many times; we all were raised with some variation of "just eat this little bit"; "you can't leave the table until your plate is empty"; "here have just a little more" etc etc. By the time I was 20 I literally had lost the notion that eating and satisfaction were related. I trained for decades in the art of tamping down with my eating shovel all those precious morsels so I could AT LAST feel "full". Big mistake and total error. And do not let the sounds your Belly Beasts make, drive you into further over eating....the drive to eat until 'full' is the path to Morbid Obesity. Along the way of in the wretched 6 weeks postOp, I suddenly heard the song of "Not hungry" and it was directly tied to being "Not full". Suddenly I realized I had been trying to feed the Beast of "Full" and ignoring the Sprite of "Not Full". Sometimes just one or two bites is plenty. Then stop. In fact, look at how Normos eat: Hungry--->eat--->Not hungry--->Stop eating. That is how to train ourselves in our new Life. The fear of being "not full" drove me into a frenzy to eatEatEAT. You know where that leads. Cheers on your journey.

re: "I don't understand this myself because I'm less hungry than most bandsters and have no fill." I had no fill the first 6 months postOp, a period during which I lost the most weight and learned more about my preternatural relationship with food and overeating. Having spent the biggest part of 4 decades in the dark shadows of serial binge-dieting, I have no illusion that without my Band I would return to the sad old days of being controlled by my Belly Beasts.

I had trouble with corn kernels for about 2 years postOp regardless of on or off the cob. Finally that issue went away and I can enjoy corn on the cob....although it now takes only about 1/2-3/4 of a full cob to be plenty if I want anything else with my meal.