Okay, I've been forced to do a lot of soul-searching recently.

Despite sailing through any pre-operative psychological assessment (in fact I was so convincing and probably 'cause I was self pay I wasn't actually referred for the full tests), there is a nagging truth which keeps tapping me on the shoulder and making me uncomfortably aware of the reasons as to why I found myself in this position. The position whereby I felt bariatric surgery was my only viable option to lose weight and take control of my diet. Or more accurately and for me; my portion size.

Although I can intellectualise my way out of a paper bag (as was stated by the psychologist when I finally met them), I had, and have, to be honest as to the reasons I ended up this big.

The answer, as painful as it is, was; my mother.

My mother is a tough cookie. Born in a depressive era in Ireland, with enumerate siblings. She was poor and although educated, she was curtailed in her life choices and was always shown that 'if you love someone, you feed them'. I assume this was their truth, as to feed a very big family was difficult at this time, and was the only example her poor long-suffering and abused mother could muster under extreme circumstances. It was also the only expected long-term outlook for women of childbearing age.

The impact of this, was clearly passed down the genetic line. That in this, the nature/nurture argument for our food weaknesses becomes more pressing. This was exemplified not only in the way my mother behaved generally, but how she administered herself in her marriage and how she behaved with her children.

The extent of this dysfunction only became apparent in how skewed my food choices (and more appropriately: portion sizes) were - and how I was born into those food choices - when recently cooking for my mother. She skipped anything resembling a vegetable, ate her body-weight in meat, potatoes and fresh bread (despite my making from scratch; Hummus, Baba Ganoush, Fatttoush and Lamb kebab). She was a wonderful cook herself and we never went without anything (all food groups represented) and it was never out of a packet. However, I got a rude awakening as to how a mothers preferences in showing affection and her deeper psychological state, totally influenced us kids.

When pressing me on my weight loss, she conceded that she'd always focussed too much on the carbs ('tis an Irish thing) when we were children and how she'd misrepresented the importance of bread and potatoes in our diet. This was also, and sadly, tempered with how her inability to show affection, manifested itself in the reward system she'd assigned for herself. In that by feeding her offspring, she'd aligned this with the ultimate expression of love....

As much as I love my mother and as much of a wonderful cook she was; I realised that the burden of responsibility for the reason I was so overweight as a child, which then carried on into adulthood, was as much her responsibility as it was mine. I, too, now feed those I love. Not because I have an incapability to show love, but that these deeply engrained examples have become the example I work from. Despite these factors changing - because of the surgery - I can see where these behaviours are hard cycles to break and have left me with a mental quandary over identity and 'healthy' expressions of love and affection.

I have no idea as to the extent to how people evaluate the impact of bariatric surgery on their lives. Tactical and strategic analysis is difficult to do when everyone is so enraptured by the immediate gratification gained from losing pounds and having all those non-scale-victories (lest we talk about the 'my cats blacker' self affirming attitudes which occasional pervades this website).... But has it forced you to re-evaluate the causes for your issue?

Have you searched your soul and now have a better handle on how you ended up in this position? 'Cause lets face it - most of us can sit in a psychologist's chair for hours at a time, spinning the wheel - but unless you're willing to strip back your insecurities to the bare-bones truth, doesn't it all feel a bit, well, empty?

Have we learnt anything other than to count the carbs, count the Protein, measure the Water consumption and count the calories in order to be fitter, tighter, healthier, smaller, more socially acceptable?

I truly believe our surgical endeavors absolutely force us to re-evaluate our lives, our succor/comfort systems and our behaviour. Consequently and because of how hard it is (emotionally), do we not sneer with derision at those who proffer 'surgery is the easy option'. Out of the curtailment of our ability to chow down and eat our way to 'happiness'; is there not something more emotional and scarily deep, that we've had to confront every time we look in the mirror?

i know I'm not an island unto myself. We were weak. We are, still, weak.

Outside of the victories in maintaining a life of low fat, cottage cheese virtuous goodness. There is a deeper significance to combating the external expression of our hurt.

What are yours?

With utmost respect and affection,

Revs x

What are you thinking? Might help both of us! Cause if I could figure this out, I'd be confident enough to tackle world peace next!

Lol! achieving world peace might be easier..

Just the simple thing you said about it not providing pleasure or numbing anymore..

I feel that and wasn't smart enough to recognize it fully until you said it..

I've been thinking a lot more as to the "why" that is. And it's definitely an other part of this tool that us hard core secret eaters, bingers might not have recognized very easily?

So with having my stomach hacked out i think of our "tiny new tummies" and I tend to forget that hormone production and messages received by the brain are altered..

We are not getting that dopamine stoked like we did before?

I don't have it all together yet because let's face it I'm not that smart of a woman

But I've been doing some reading, and still trying to figure out why this is a very good thing.

Because it is a good thing! We just need time for that 2 by 4 to hit us upside the head a couple of times..

Lol not sure any of that made sense... But you asked

I don't know the why either - maybe because we can't take in the volume that we used to before for a boatload of seratonin production? Maybe it is something to do with ghrelin that hasn't been studied yet? Could go in any direction. I wasn't really associating it with the surgery itself, so you may be onto something! Maybe Dr Gamergirl could design a level one research study - get this research cooking! I definitely agree the lack of satisfaction is a good thing, I just think it is a bad thing that my brain keeps trying to make it work! It scares me some.

I disagree that you are not a smart woman - your thoughtfulness and intelligence comes through in your posts.

Some thoughts and then some questions ... with NO suggestion that I know what the "right" answer(s) is/are.

If we were in destructive / codependent relationships with a boyfriend or friend or coworker or boss or even a spouse, chances are that the advice dispensed here would be some version of: "Lose 'em! They're keeping you down. They're contributing significantly to your destruction and aiding your self-destruction."

But when the offender is a blood relative, particularly a parent, that kind of advice is rarely if ever dispensed. Yet in the case of blood relatives (who have imprinted their damage on us since childhood more deeply and destructively than others can) the wounds they can inflict over and over again are tolerated. In some cases, the wounds -- even fatal wounds -- are invited.

Why isn't it OK to divorce blood relatives?

Failing that, why isn't it OK to severely limit our contact with them or, more accurately, their contact with us?

At the very least, why isn't it OK to establish hard and fast rules about what they are not allowed to do that hurts us and make it clear that there will be consequences of violating those rules?

You are sharing with us a black and white answer..Oh if life were that simple eh....There is a high percentage of woman who return to abusive relationships because they are familiar with it, they are cared for financially and see no way out..even for the children.....Does that solve the problem..no! the abuser abuses more and sometimes it costs the mate or children or both their lives....That said..

I am 1 in 12 kids..The only one who tried to continue a distant relationship with my mother....they all thought I was nuts..But I always knew that she was sick in the head and could not help herself....Hurting the ones she loves brings her great pleasure...But i am not an animal..I have feelings and wanted to make sure that she was taken care of and if she has even gotten sick or died...She still gave birth to me you know.......

But now..after everyone told me that it was not going to stay..that she would figure out a way to push me away as well. She did..she asked me a couple of weeks ago not to ever call her again...A minor family matter did not go as she wanted so she has finally cut all of us off..

My mother has always played the victim...I am a lone, i have 12 kids and they don't care about me...so she gets poor poor dear sad for you, we will help your children are all scum and waste....

That perks her up, and makes her feel like something special...Like I said she always wanted to be looked after one on one care...no deal for any of us..I had a relationship with her at a distance...That was pretty safe you know..

Now she has cut the ties herself and I will respect that and not bother her again...I do feel bad for her though because ahe will die alone. No one to see her out. Just what she wants.....I am done..

So many feelings and emotions get locked up in these kinds of situations....Sometimes you just don't know what to do until the choice is made for you..That is what has happened for me now......

RJ ... wow! Not that you hadn't drawn her clearly enough before, but there's no ambiguity here. She really determined to become The Perfect Victim.

BTW, you are an wonderful writer. Have you ever considered writing a memoir yourself? You use all the crayons.

I didn't mean for the above to sound so b/w either, but the "Mamas without Boundaries" theme in this whole thread is so strong.

This thread is powerful.

Your resilience amazes me, RJ...

I hope, that at some point, she has an epiphany and realises what she's done...

I know it might be a long-shot - but somewhere deep inside she must know the truth of it all..

My heart goes out to you x

Your resilience amazes me, RJ...

I hope, that at some point, she has an epiphany and realises what she's done...

I know it might be a long-shot - but somewhere deep inside she must know the truth of it all..

My heart goes out to you x

If she knew the truth that would make her a person like Hitler or an unfeeling great white..But she is a very sick person and has convinced herself that she was the best mother on the planet...She really believes it...When the other kids talked to her and she went on about her magnificence as a mother they would fight with her and tell her their side of the story..Never worked..She is also a pathological liar and is extremely smart and has a good memory for her lies...No...She will die thinking she was the Ace mother and we are all ungrateful wastes of flesh....

One thing I learned is you can cage a psychopath but you cannot cure them..... she will die alone like she allowed her lap dog to die alone...what goes around will be the end of it all.....I feel so bad for her..She could have had 12 children who loved and adored her and treated her like a queen...But that was never going to happen....And never will

RJ ... wow! Not that you hadn't drawn her clearly enough before, but there's no ambiguity here. She really determined to become The Perfect Victim.

BTW, you are an wonderful writer. Have you ever considered writing a memoir yourself? You use all the crayons.

I didn't mean for the above to sound so b/w either, but the "Mamas without Boundaries" theme in this whole thread is so strong.

This thread is powerful.

That is funny that you asked me if I was a writer..I am in fact...But a starving artist of the trade.....Yes one day I will pen all of this for a book and hopefully it will bring some conclusion to all involved as everyone has suffered severely at her hands....

I don't know the why either - maybe because we can't take in the volume that we used to before for a boatload of seratonin production? Maybe it is something to do with ghrelin that hasn't been studied yet? Could go in any direction. I wasn't really associating it with the surgery itself, so you may be onto something! Maybe Dr Gamergirl could design a level one research study - get this research cooking! I definitely agree the lack of satisfaction is a good thing, I just think it is a bad thing that my brain keeps trying to make it work! It scares me some. I disagree that you are not a smart woman - your thoughtfulness and intelligence comes through in your posts.

So part of my reading today (in between shopping that is )

Oh notice the line:

""There is also the so-called vertical sleeve gastrectomy""

Weight-loss surgery not clear cut

Dr Karl › Dr Karl's Great Moments In Science

Wouldn't you think that weight-loss surgery would work just by massively restricting how much food a person could squish into their stomach? But no, it's much more complicated than that.

First, let's look at the surgery. One operation involves actual cutting of the stomach. The Roux-en-Y or stomach bypass involves stapling the stomach to leave only a very small pouch at the top, which is then connected by a new pipe to the small intestine. Here most of the stomach and part of the small intestine is bypassed. There is also the so-called vertical sleeve gastrectomy, where the majority of the stomach is cut away, leaving your new stomach in the shape of a long, narrow tube.

The answer might lie in the so-called 'brain-of-the-gut', the enteric nervous system. It takes a lot of processing power to eat. You have to chew the food, mix it up and move it along the 10-metre length of the gut at the precise speed and with the appropriate holdovers, and also synchronise the addition of various juices and the release of various hormones, and finally, expel the food.

On one hand, this enteric nervous system has only about half-a-million neurons — about 170,000 times fewer than the 85 billion neurons in the brain in your skull. But while the brain makes some 100 neurotransmitters, the enteric nervous system makes a respectable 40 neurotransmitters. That's a lot.

You've probably heard of serotonin, the so-called 'feel-good' hormone. The brain in your skull makes a tiny 5 per cent of all the serotonin in your body — the brain of your gut, the enteric nervous system, makes 95 per cent.

Dopamine is a hormone associated with, among other activities, pleasure and the reward system. Your brain makes 50 per cent, while your enteric nervous system makes the other 50 per cent.

On top of this, your enteric nervous system produces various hormones that can make you hungry or full.

So this seemingly straightforward weight-loss surgery is not so straightforward.

Edited December 6, 201312 yr by laura-ven

Says the man who investigated belly button lint and how it is almost always blue......

That makes some so-called sense.

Says the man who investigated belly button lint and how it is almost always blue......

Lol, I didn't say he was a great Dr!! You know everybody is calling themselves doctors these days.. Oh but it is always blue...

Edited December 6, 201312 yr by laura-ven

lol I know, chickadee.. I was making that statement in reference to his 'so-called vertical sleeve' remark....

Smells of snotty derision...

Agree with the enteric nervous system bit.. and conclude, as we have most of our 'gut' intact (because all those transmitters are not just in the part of our stomach we had removed. They're from mouth to bottom), that on that basis, I don't think I'll be reaching for the serotonin/dopamine tablets just yet!

lol I know, chickadee.. I was making that statement in reference to his 'so-called vertical sleeve' remark.... Smells of snotty derision... Agree with the enteric nervous system bit.. and conclude, as we have most of our 'gut' intact (because all those transmitters are not just in the part of our stomach we had removed. They're from mouth to bottom), that on that basis, I don't think I'll be reaching for the serotonin/dopamine tablets just yet!

Yeah.. I'm grasping at straws at this point

But it's not just the pain that's stopping me from binging like I said the pain from fullness (restriction) NEVER stopped me before. And the ghrelin no hunger thing? Well I'd binge when not hungry all the time. So this no satisfaction thing??

I have no answer to that... Primarily because I, too, get/got lots of 'satisfaction' from chowing down inordinate amounts of food...

I can only assume that we're creatures of habit.. and why some wls patients 'cheat' their surgery or swap one addiction/habit for another; such as alcohol, drugs, exercise or sex...

Either way, we're all searching for the serotonin/dopamine hit...

I wish I could get mine from something like.. I dunno.. crosswords...

I have no answer to that... Primarily because I, too, get/got lots of 'satisfaction' from chowing down inordinate amounts of food... I can only assume that we're creatures of habit.. and why some wls patients 'cheat' their surgery or swap one addiction/habit for another; such as alcohol, drugs, exercise or sex... Either way, we're all searching for the serotonin/dopamine hit... I wish I could get mine from something like.. I dunno.. crosswords...

Ccrroossswords...mmm Nope nothing. I think I actually just lol'd!!! (Maybe a little tiny snort, too. I'll admit nothing) Madame, this thread is the bomb. Thank you dde18

You guys are nuts...truly nuts I tell you......If I wasn't a depressed person now..And getting my hit of Serotonin through meds....I would reconsider his remarks about getting it as a reward for eating... hmmmmm..Chocolate anyone..

My rehab Doc told me that if you are over 50 it is only a very slight chance that a person trades one addiction for another....So I guess if I am no longer addicted to food..Then I will be cured...Who are we kidding ...food glorious food.....gasping!!!!