That's pretty much how I identify myself....a non believer. Not an atheist, not an agnostic.....those terms seem like "labels."

I've been meaning to post in this sub forum for a long time, but never got around to it. It needs the dust knocked off of it. I can see why it doesn't get used much. For me, my non belief has absolutely nothing to do with my WLS or my weight loss. It hasn't contributed....it didn't play a role....it damn sure didn't help. It didn't stop me either, any more than my non belief in the tooth fairy. It's just a lack of belief, not a lack of faith BTW. I have faith...just not in religion.

I read an article recently about a group of atheists down in Florida who erected a statue to atheism on public property as a sign of their right to freedom of expression. It was a park bench BTW....which I think shows at least they are practical. But I can't quite get behind the whole act of it. After all, from the outside looking in, erecting the bench is kinda like celebrating their non belief. Making a statement about it. A demonstration if you will. Personally, I don't make statements about my non belief of religion anymore than I make statements about my non belief in Santa Claus....which I put both on the same level. They are the same thing, are they not? Isn't Santa keeping a list of who's naughty and who's nice.....yeah....same thing.

My non belief is just not a factor. Plus...there is no doubt I have a king size problem with authority. I find it hard to accept the rules of it all. The threats and the guilt. The manipulation. The "live this way or else" sense of it all. I don't need it. I can be a moral man and live by my principles without the threat of eternal damnation hanging over my head. Or the promise of the pearly gates...... I don't need to be bribed to do the right thing.

So yeah, I don't have a very high opinion of religion, but I did not start this thread to criticize people who do or debate the merits of atheism. But rather just to dust off the cobwebs of this sub forum and say hey....it's possible to lose weight, get healthy and lead a decent life without the "assistance" of a higher power.

Out of respect for the many believers out there, I posted this in the "atheist" sub forum so you would not have to read it. I'm happy for your response though. However, like I said, to me it's not a debate.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

Twinsmama...thanks for your openness and insight.

I will just chime in, I also am in the "group" as non-religious. I am very passive regarding this and choose not to talk about it much, and I normally wouldn't have posted anything except I enjoyed how you were to the point yet soft about it Butterthebean. I have a very close friend that enjoys debate and is very in your face about atheism, she is in my mind rude and hurtful to those of faith. But everyone has their niche I suppose. And sometimes its the outspoken ones that pave the way for more acceptance of these "different" views. My husband is a "non practicing" catholic, and we don't talk about this subject, the whole let sleeping dogs lie.....anyway kind of nice to see I'm not the only one here

I'll just say ... Cheers! Me too. Well past debating the subject ... I try to live and let live.

I mostly keep my mouth shut when it comes to religious subjects unless they are verbally attacking a group of people in a public place. Then I tend to speak my mind. Ita one thing to do it behind closed doors but not in a public area where you have people around that you could be hurting with out knowing.

Also when I am asked about my religion I am open to say I non-religious. Then I tend to get a lot of mean comments and bombarded with question after question. Most of the time they get mad when they are asked the same questions.

Maybe because I still young and haven't delt with it as much as others and tend to be more stand my ground then most. I treat everyone with reapect till they disreapect me. I don't judge people on their religion.

Like I said above I have heard many of bad things yelled my way and also have had damage done to my car because of a evolution sticker. I don't going around doing this to religious people. I hear that athiest are evil, etc. But I have seen more done towards me in the name of religion then I have seen from people that are non-religious.

Butter this is apple, my mom "prayed" for her today... Do you think it helped ??

At least there is a much more civil understanding on this thread then the holy flame war that occurred on another thread started by a believer a couple weeks ago. BTB, I am sure you remember that one. Fondly. thanks for keeping this one civil and allow the opinions of both believers and non believers to intertwine without resorting to name calling and threats.

At least there is a much more civil understanding on this thread then the holy flame war that occurred on another thread started by a believer a couple weeks ago. BTB' date=' I am sure you remember that one. Fondly. thanks for keeping this one civil and allow the opinions of both believers and non believers to intertwine without resorting to name calling and threats.[/quote']

That's honestly what I was hoping for....a little civil conversation without an argument. And happy to hear from all sides as well. Yes there have been many holy wars fought in the past here....we don't need another one.

I know some people don't understand why I even brought all this up, but this issue has a special significance in my life. Like I said before, I married a preacher's daughter. And not just any preacher, a fundamentalist southern baptist preacher. Needless to say he takes his religion very seriously. And he puts his church above everything....including his wife and kids. I always thought in time he would grow more accepting of me, but in fact he's grown less so. My SIL told me recently that he said he had hoped I would "wake up" by now and started going to church. Not going to happen. I guess we both don't understand the other and are unable to find a middle ground. I have a BIL that started going to church when he married into the family, and he plays the part well. But when it's just him and me, he doesn't act the part. He says things that no Christian man ought to say, in my opinion. Particularly the overt racist jokes that can be so prevalent here in the rural south, from believers and non believers alike. I hate that stuff.....and then on sunday there he is singing in the church choir. I can't reconcile the racism with the spiritual belief. But that contradiction is rampant in my part of the country.

Butter this is apple' date=' my mom "prayed" for her today... Do you think it helped ??

[/quote']

Uh....I'm thinking a little holy Water might be necessary. Was this picture taken before or after she spun her head around and spit green pea Soup everywhere?

Butter this is apple' date=' my mom "prayed" for her today... Do you think it helped ??

[/quote']

Apple looks like she partook a little enthusiastically of the communion wine

Uh....I'm thinking a little holy Water might be necessary. Was this picture taken before or after she spun her head around and spit green pea soup everywhere?

A little holy water in the drinking bowl. seriously, we all hope apple returns to good health, as good as is possible for being a certain senior dog-years age.

Haha guys I feel almost bad embarrassing her that way, yes she was high as a kite!

Ok back to the topic at hand...

I told butter today that I couldn't muster up enough passion about being a non believer to actually comment!

Believing or not believing is such a non issue in my life... Is that bad?

I know, I know, the gates of hell are opening their gaping fire filled jaws for me...

I know' date=' I know, the gates of hell are opening their gaping jaws fire filled jaws for me...[/quote']

At least they won't have to open far for your skinny ass.

At least they won't have to open far for your skinny ass.

Flattery will get you everywhere "Murray"

Now that was funny BTB.

At least they won't have to open far for your skinny ass.

Hah. Finally got a laugh out of this thread. Count me in the nonbeliever group. But unless someone is discriminating against me for it ( Hello Overeaters Anonymous and the Boy Scouts!!) I don't say much about it.

Lynda