I posted that I ate half a Big Mac and still eat a crispy creme donut if I crave one. Several people gave their opinions.and how I didnt care about my health.....but several more sent me private messages, 11 different people to be exact, that wanted some advice because they had kids and the grazing and snacking was getting the best of them, but were scared to ask for it on this forum because of the tongue lashing some people give when your veer from the HEALTHY path. Everyone is not the same, our needs, wants and lifestyles are different. There are people reading the forum who are intimidated by your perfection....give us who arent as perfect a break.

I don't think less of anyone who eats different than I do. I KNOW I'm no better than anyone haha. I'm just relaying what I know and my thoughts. Hope no one took offense!

Butterthebean' date=' I will repeat the bottom line for me.

Ad hominem attacks and increased strength of personal conviction do not qualify as empirical evidence.

In fact, recent longitudinal research from the prestigious National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (2010) clearly demonstrates that many who had been previously diagnosed with alcohol dependency (alcoholism) in their 30s and 40s are able to safely drink in moderation once they are older.

There is no empirical evidence in the research literature to support the premise that overeating is a physiological addiction. It’s a psychological problem.

Consequently, as a rule—that is, on the average—abstinence is far less effective in maintaining weight loss than moderation. Insulting me doesn't change the validity of what I've written or serve as scientific evidence in favor of abstinence.

Taking a few post-surgical bites of a Krispy Kreme doughnut or a McDonald's Sausage Mcmuffin with cheese is most definitely not unhealthy behavior... assuming these foods are eaten in moderation. The fact that several post-surgical patients on these forums claim to be unable to have those few bites without later gorging themselves uncontrollably does not mean that all VSG patients should abstain from such foods.

Notes

National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (2010, February). Alcoholism isn’t what it used to be. NIAAA Spectrum, 2. Retrieved from http://www.spectrum....alcoholism.aspx

Then you need to go read the "horror story" thread cause over there....way down toward the end....they are presenting evidence and scientific studies that obesity IS a physiological problem. I'm not saying I agree with it....never did, so the fact that you keep making the same argument seems kinda pointless. All I'm saying is the motivation behind the abstinence might make a huge difference in whether or not someone succeeds or fails. If they abstain from their heart's greatest desire then yeah....that's hard to do. But if one has an epiphany that they no longer want something that they used to enjoy, then partaking of it would be foolish. Please, go read that other thread....although you might have to weed through several pages of foolishness there too.

AND...don't talk about insults and attacks when you through out the first swastika.

AND...don't talk about insults and attacks when you through out the first swastika.

I did not "through out" (sic) any swastikas or anything else for matter. I repeated and referenced the term "food Nazi" that had been initially used by another member in an earlier post (in fact, I specifically used it in quotes) and I most certainly was not directing it to anyone in particular. I wasn't even aware of you as a member until you started to post on this thread. And, for the record, neither Cheri nor I used this term in an historic sense in regard to the Third Reich or the Holocaust. It was obviously first and subsequently used to refer to the fascist- or dogmatic-like thinking exhibited by some in regard to abstinence and "bad foods." I happen to be a Sephardi, so you can drop the swastika references.

Making some vague reference to another anonymous thread on this forum is not the same as providing citations to empirical research that has been published in refereed professional journals.

Maybe the moderators could make an effort to understand that the term "Nazi" in any form is not a positive one and diligently police it as they would the N word or any other offensive slur? It might help?

I don't have a lot of issues with food, but I will say that when I cut out the fast white carbs I found my life changed for the better. At 8 weeks out I can't imagine I could eat half a Big Mac, and frankly I wouldn't want to, but perhaps that's because I've been exposed in life to better quality foods. For those who aren't so lucky, perhaps they think that is good food? I am all for the "moderation" approach, but then again I wasn't 350 when I started, so it's a lot easier for me to throw around because I didn't have serious food issues. I can certainly see that someone who had their eyes opened as they considered this process might feel that not eating the doughnut is the only choice. Frankly, even with not having a serious problem with doughnuts, I can say that my life is the better for not wanting them. Do I think a bite of a baguette on a street corner in france would be yummy...hell ya, but a krispy cream? Yuck!!! I'd rather bath in the grease than eat it!

I can see from even my short prediet, that eating processed white carbs was a mistake. I certainly think it's a mistake to go back to those habits. And reading that someone thinks it's a great idea "in moderation" (as my brother in law the crack addict says) might just be a way of saying, just a few rocks won't hurt me.....

Maybe the moderators could make an effort to understand that the term "Nazi" in any form is not a positive one and diligently police it as they would the N word or any other offensive slur? It might help?

Frankly, it personally triggers some deep sadness and pain I would rather not like to feel among online friends in this forum.

Im arab muslim, its almost like someone telling me im a terrorist (which i am not). Hatred is unwarranted. Unacceptable and does not belong in anyones vocab

For those who don't have access to a dictionary, a Sephardi is a Jew of Mediterranean descent. I lost a grandparent during German occupation of Greece: If you want write about deep sadness and pain, that covers it.

Quite frankly, I think it is disgusting that some are deliberately belaboring the off-topic discussion of the earlier use of the word Nazi (a word that was used without intended offense by another Jew) to obfuscate the issue raised by the original poster and the subsequent points that have been made in support of her complaint.

Perhaps we can shelve all the righteous indignation, drop this sidebar discussion, and return to the original topic?

I think this is an age thing Mason. The term Nazi is specifically associated with a horrific happening. I don't want to be called a KKK member, nor do I want to be called a Nazi, because I lived in a time when I understand what these terms meant to people. Younger folk might not understand this.

Being "religious" or "serious" or gad whatever today's term is, about your diet after sleeve is one thing, but being called a slur like N..... or Nazi....or whatever is offensive to me so I avoid using those terms because they would not only bring me pain but bring pain to others. Why do that uselessly?

I did not "through out" (sic) any swastikas or anything else for matter. I repeated and referenced the term "food Nazi" that had been initially used by another member in an earlier post (in fact, I specifically used it in quotes) and I most certainly was not directing it to anyone in particular. I wasn't even aware of you as a member until you started to post on this thread. And, for the record, neither Cheri nor I used this term in an historic sense in regard to the Third Reich or the Holocaust. It was obviously first and subsequently used to refer to the fascist- or dogmatic-like thinking exhibited by some in regard to abstinence and "bad foods." I happen to be a Sephardi, so you can drop the swastika references.

Making some vague reference to another anonymous thread on this forum is not the same as providing citations to empirical research that has been published in refereed professional journals.

Not trying to make a vague reference....here's the link to the thread...

http://www.verticalsleevetalk.com/topic/65409-horror-story/page__st__160

I'm not trying to debate it with you, just asking you to go read it...starting at thread 166.

Just to be clear it was brought up by CLK and she said she was sorry for the offense taken but stated it was not intended to be related to the holocaust.

Other posts used the term in reference or response to the topic.

I find the word stupid or idiot or dumb ass offensive since I care for my handicap niece but I'm not forcing anyone on here to police their every word. Lord knows stupid is used very disrespectfully and definitely meant as an insult.

http://www.verticals...y/page__st__160

I'm not trying to debate it with you, just asking you to go read it...starting at thread 166.

Fair enough. In the interest of time, would you be able to pull out any specific references to empirical research and post them here?

If I don't finish grading the final exams for my Intro to Psych class today, I am going to be in big trouble. Smile.

Quite frankly, I think it is disgusting that some are deliberately belaboring the off-topic discussion of the earlier use of the word Nazi (a word that was used without intended offense by another Jew) to obfuscate the issue raised by the original poster and the subsequent points that have been made in support of her complaint.

Perhaps we can shelve all the righteous indignation, drop this sidebar discussion, and return to the original topic?

Maybe that's because some of us find the term so offensive that it completely overshadows anything else that might have been said, and you were throwing it around like candy, along with making all kinds of critical judgements about people who want to eat healthy...saying that people are in fear or denial and need to get therapy for wanting to drink a Protein shake. But apparently there is nothing unhealthy about someone who has weight loss surgery and then proceeds to eat ice cream and Big Macs 8 weeks after surgery....because why....there has never been a peer reviewed study proving it. Well do you really need empirical evidence that eating a Big Mac is unhealthy and will shorten your life span?

There, I tried to honor your request and bring it back to the original topic.

Just to be clear it was brought up by CLK and she said she was sorry for the offense taken but stated it was not intended to be related to the holocaust.

Other posts used the term in reference or response to the topic.

I find the word stupid or idiot or dumb ass offensive since I care for my handicap niece but I'm not forcing anyone on here to police their every word. Lord knows stupid is used very disrespectfully and definitely meant as an insult.

I think everyone has a different view of what 'normal' will be for them at goal.

For some, camp A, they see 'normal' poeple / friends who give into cravings, maybe fairly frequently, having them in small abouts and stay at a health weight.

For others, camp B, they might want what they percieve as a heathier diet. They see 'normal' people / friends stick to, with a very occasional treat, and are hoping that the sleeve will be a tool to live that lifestyle.

I don't think generally people are talking about complete abstinence from 'treats' for good.

I don't see why either 'camp' has to think it's their way or the highway. There are lots of 'right ways' to lose weight and keep it off. I'm sure there are some VSG veterans who execise regularly and those that never do. I'm sure they're all happy with how they're doing it.

Cheers,

Deano

Oh by the way we went to " the falafel drive in" tonight and I had hummus and two FRIED falafel balls!!!