I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

Right again. I like to think that the Democrats do not go to school on the Republican strategies because they have scruples that the Republicans lack.

This morning they were saying that Nancy Pelosi stated that the health care bill will not pass in the time frame she promised because they have to take their time to be as fair as possible to both sides of the aisle.

Barney Frank was saying that they definitely could not take a Senate vote until the new guy from Mass is on board because it wouldn't be fair.

It is frustrating beyond belief to put up with the dishonesty and unfair dealings of the Republicans, and have our Democratic leaders turn around and defer to those folks' wishes. But, to be honest, I wouldn't be happy if our representatives in congress played that dirty.

As I said once before, in my experience, bad people will eventually pay the piper. It might take a long time, but eventually lies, cheating and stealing catches up to you. And always in a very bad way. I think Richard Nixon is an example of that.

As I read your post, I am laughing at how backwards you are. Bad people will eventuelly pay the piper. Those bad people will be paying with their jobs in November.

[quote} This morning they were saying that Nancy Pelosi stated that the health care bill will not pass in the time frame she promised because they have to take their time to be as fair as possible to both sides of the aisle.

All of a sudden she's not in a big hurry anymore. She suddenly wants to be fair? This is where we all roll our eyes!

She does not have the votes from the LIBERAL democrats in the house to vote for the more conservative senate version of the healthcare bill. It's not a matter of being in a hurry, it's about being able to count.

As I read your post, I am laughing at how backwards you are. Bad people will eventuelly pay the piper. Those bad people will be paying with their jobs in November.

Then who paid with their jobs in the 2006 and 2008 elections? Those pure, not for sale republicans?

When Sonia Sotomayor was being considered for supreme court nomination, the republicans were all over her for being a JUDICIAL ACTIVIST and worrying that she would be one from the bench.

Well, yesterday's supreme court ruling, undoing 100 years of campaign finance regulations, was JUDICIAL ACTIVISM pure and simple but the hypocritical republicans (who will get the corporate campaign funds) of course embraced it.

What's my mantra again?: If it weren't for hypocrisy, the republicans would have nothing.

Wow, how surprising, no rebuttal for Cleo's post.

If the middle class and poor people in this country don't think this is a signal of bad things to come for them, they don't understand much about big money.

Corporations are not people!! Corporations are entities that are made up of many people (or sometimes a few) and often stockholders who vote. They are all simply interested in making money. That is their reason for being. Most of them do not have a conscience or a reason to be fair to their consumers. That's why government oversight came into being and if you don't understand that, I'm surprisedl.

(Ooops, sorry I'm referring to Cleo's post about corporations, previous page)

patty: "As I read your post, I am laughing at how backwards you are. Bad people will eventuelly pay the piper. Those bad people will be paying with their jobs in November."

patty was talking about my post that ended with a look back at Richard Nixon.

Well as for the elections patty, you may well be right. Democrats might be losing their jobs. The Republicans will lie, cheat, steal, misrepresent and lie some more in order to buy a seat in congress. The Democrats are not willing to do that. So yeah, the Republicans might win their seats back. But I stand by my statement that they will pay the piper eventually. Their wicked behavior will wind up biting them like it bit Richard Nixon.

Oh and as it bit John McCain because of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Forgot to mention poor old McCain.

patty: "As I read your post, I am laughing at how backwards you are. Bad people will eventuelly pay the piper. Those bad people will be paying with their jobs in November."

patty was talking about my post that ended with a look back at Richard Nixon.

Well as for the elections patty, you may well be right. Democrats might be losing their jobs. The Republicans will lie, cheat, steal, misrepresent and lie some more in order to buy a seat in congress. The Democrats are not willing to do that. So yeah, the Republicans might win their seats back. But I stand by my statement that they will pay the piper eventually. Their wicked behavior will wind up biting them like it bit Richard Nixon.

WOW! We republicans are so wickedly corrupt.:cursing: Let's see now. It started with Mary Landrieu. When reports surfaced she had been swayed with a $100 million Medicaid deal just for Louisiana, she bragged it was actually $300 million. Then, Ben Nelson of Nebraska got the most unusual Medicaid deal. In exchange for his vote, federal taxpayers will now pay for most Medicaid expansion just in Nebraska - forever. And while Democrats have claimed their bill saves big money cutting the extra benefits from Medicare Advantage, the fact is that won't happen in Florida, where Sen. Bill Nelson got his 800,000 seniors an exemption. Let's not forget how the Union's were favored.

The bill also had a mystery grant of $100 million to an unknown health care facility in an unnamed state. It doesn't say Connecticut but Sen. Chris Dodd admitted he wrote it, hoping Connecticut would get it. Democrats shrugged off questions about the one state deals - saying this is how you get to 60 votes.

"That's what this legislation's all about - it's the art of compromise," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said. (He really meant the art of corruption) It's a shame that that's the only way we can come to consensus in this country is to buy votes .Not to mention the many sweet deals made to several other senators in return for their affirmative vote.

I hope the other senators and congressmen come to the realization that if these favored senators can hold out for the best deal, under the guise that they are doing the moral and ethical thing, perhaps they also can hold out until the price is right. These shenanigans prove that we have the best Congress that money can buy.

If the Republicans would have done anything like this, there would have been all sorts of hell to pay. The Dems and the media would be looking into the possibility of impeaching the whole bunch of them.(And you say the republicans are wicked)

Edited January 24, 201016 yr by pattygreen

WOW! We republicans are so wickedly corrupt.:cursing: Let's see now. It started with Mary Landrieu. When reports surfaced she had been swayed with a $100 million Medicaid deal just for Louisiana, she bragged it was actually $300 million. Then, Ben Nelson of Nebraska got the most unusual Medicaid deal. In exchange for his vote, federal taxpayers will now pay for most Medicaid expansion just in Nebraska - forever. And while Democrats have claimed their bill saves big money cutting the extra benefits from Medicare Advantage, the fact is that won't happen in Florida, where Sen. Bill Nelson got his 800,000 seniors an exemption. Let's not forget how the Union's were favored.

The bill also had a mystery grant of $100 million to an unknown health care facility in an unnamed state. It doesn't say Connecticut but Sen. Chris Dodd admitted he wrote it, hoping Connecticut would get it. Democrats shrugged off questions about the one state deals - saying this is how you get to 60 votes.

"That's what this legislation's all about - it's the art of compromise," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said. (He really meant the art of corruption) It's a shame that that's the only way we can come to consensus in this country is to buy votes .Not to mention the many sweet deals made to several other senators in return for their affirmative vote.

I hope the other senators and congressmen come to the realization that if these favored senators can hold out for the best deal, under the guise that they are doing the moral and ethical thing, perhaps they also can hold out until the price is right. These shenanigans prove that we have the best Congress that money can buy.

If the Republicans would have done anything like this, there would have been all sorts of hell to pay. The Dems and the media would be looking into the possibility of impeaching the whole bunch of them.(And you say the republicans are wicked)

Were you similarly outraged when the republicans did it for their big give-away to big Pharma? No, of course not. More hypocrisy.

From Slate:

For two minutes, the Rude Pundit listened to Republican Senator John Cornyn of Texas talk about the "back room deals" and "pay-offs" that got the straggling members of the Democratic caucus to go along with the compromise of the compromise of the compromise of the already-compromised-from-the-s­tart health care reform bill. And then within another minute, he found this on Cornyn's Senate website, which says that Cornyn "Helped create a Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit for Seniors: Senator Cornyn was a strong supporter of the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act, which, for the first time, provided Medicare beneficiaries with a prescription drug benefit and expanded health plan options."

And then it took less than another minute to find out some of what it cost to get that 2003 bill passed, with the vote of Cornyn, the proud conservative with a voice that sounds like he's been kicked in the taint by a nervous mule he was standing behind.

To pass the Medicare Prescription Drug bill, there was the $25 billion "rural package," which profited hospitals in southern and western states, with "rural" meaning cities like Corpus Christi, Texas, with a quarter million people. Hell, Chuck Grassley got $151 million for hospitals in Iowa. That's $151 million just for the hospitals, not for, say, a natural disaster f up the state's infrastructure. So compare that with the uproar over the $300 million that Democrat Mary Landrieu secured for Katrina-buggered Louisiana in exchange for her vote on 2009's health care reform.

The Bush administration also got $900 million put into the bill essentially so that the White House could reward the districts of loyal Republicans with hospital funds. You wanna talk about bribes? Here's some m**g bribes: "Among them were two hospitals in the Texas district of Republican Majority Leader Tom DeLay, a member of the conference committee on the Medicare bill. Ten hospitals in Connecticut, home of US Representative Nancy Johnson, another Republican member of the conference committee, also benefited. Pennsylvania, represented by Arlen Specter, a moderate Republican who had crusaded for health care money, had 13 institutions in the victory column."

The Republican administration and congress did much worse than anything you have described patty. As have Republicans before them.

As far as compromise is concerned, you obviously have never served on a board of directors or been a PTA president or served in any other capacity where compromise is the only way that progress can be made.

Even in a marriage, compromise is the necessary component to keep things on an even kiel. But I'm sure you'll disagree with that. Since you have such a righteous life and marriage, I'm sure that God settles all disputes that you may have with your spouse.

And Cleo's, the Republicans in Texas have been a hot bed of corruption. It is very frustrating to learn of all the things that they did when Bush was the governor and later as president. Some of the most outrageous and nefarious men have been prosecuted, but most have not.

And Cleo's, the Republicans in Texas have been a hot bed of corruption. It is very frustrating to learn of all the things that they did when Bush was the governor and later as president. Some of the most outrageous and nefarious men have been prosecuted, but most have not.

But none of that matters to those extremists on the right with their phoney outrage. We all know that NONE of the things they are protesting happened under bush, because if they had they would have been protesting them then. :cursing:

It will be interesting to see if the teabaggers, who claim to be "ordinary" americans from main street, and who claim to hate the wall street bailouts, come out on the side of main street or wall street with respect to:

1) supreme court ruling allowing wall street unlimited access to buy elections

2) Pres. Obama's crack down on wall street with increased oversight and regulations.

I will be perfectly honest with you when I say that I only recently started to be interested in politics. I don't know too much that happened under president Bush's reign. If he was crooked and made deals like the dems just did, I would be just as outrtaged. I find it astonishing that it would even be allowed. If it happened under Bush, then it was just as wrong.

The Republican administration and congress did much worse than anything you have described patty. As have Republicans before them.

As far as compromise is concerned, you obviously have never served on a board of directors or been a PTA president or served in any other capacity where compromise is the only way that progress can be made.

Even in a marriage, compromise is the necessary component to keep things on an even kiel. But I'm sure you'll disagree with that. Since you have such a righteous life and marriage, I'm sure that God settles all disputes that you may have with your spouse.

I allow all situations that need an answer to be dealt with by my husband if neither of us can agree on something. We both discuss it, and if my reasoning differs from his, he takes into account my reasoning and councel and decisions and then makes the final decision. I agree to accept his final say. This works out wonderfully for us, because I trust him to handle things in an honest and fair way. We rarely have disputes over things. The bible teaches that "the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." And, "As Christ loved the church, so the husband loves his wife likewise."

I am glad that what you're doing works so well for you.

Once when I was a member of the Baptist church, the minister preached a regular sermon setting the congregation straight as he did every Sunday. After his sermon he said he had something very important to say to us.

He said that there was a woman, a church member, who had come to him complaining that her husband was hitting her. It had happened on 2 occasions. The second time he hit her so hard and so many times, that she had to go to the emergency room.

The reason she came to the pastor was because she didn't know what to do. She knew she couldn't get a divorce because she understood her vows and what the Baptist church teaches about marriage being forever, but she just couldn't put up with her husband's abuse.

The pastor said to us, let us make no mistake about what this woman needed to do. She needs to absolutely abide by her husbands wishes and get right back to work, listening to her husband and not causing him, who is the absolute head of the household, any trouble. And the pastor said, that is what I counseled this good woman of our church to do. Heed her husband's words, no matter what. He told us, I thought that you all needed to hear this lesson and perhaps refresh your minds on what the Bible teaches us about the family and the roles of the husband and wife.