I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

I had to laugh about Pres. Obama's failed fiscal policies. If turning a 700,000 job loss per month into 6 months of positive job growth is viewed as failure to the right wing nut jobs - then it's no wonder the republican's economic plan was such a disaster.

TARP started under a republican president - now what was his name? Oh, yeah. BUSH.

The bailout of the car industry has been a big success with them paying back the money and hiring more workers. Good job, Pres. Obama!!

The federal government collects taxes and then distributes them according to programs and policies. This has been done under all presidents, however, under the republican presidents, the wealth has been distributed UP, while under democratic president it has been distributed down.

The biggest expansion of government happened under bush with the creation of the dept. of Homeland Security.

Most of the spending being done now is a continutation of bush's policies. (See chart below)

-two wars (both unfunded)

-medicare part D (unfunded)

-massive tax cuts for the rich (unfunded - here's your re-distribution of wealth UP)

The czar thing is of course totally hypocritical, as usual, since bush and reagan had them. (See post below for their list).

Any subversion of our government was done by bush under the guise of "war on terror" with warrantless wiretapping of our citizens.

Radical special interest groups? Now who could they be? I notice nothing specific was mentioned.

Pres. Obama's foreign policy has been a welcomed change to many of the countries that bush alienated. His presidency has mended many broken fences with countries that hated bush. Our standing in the world has improved.

Core values of America? Oh, I know what this means. Core values of the conservative, born again christians who want a theocracy (theirs).

Our military is stronger now under Pres. Obama. He has improved on care of our veterans.

Liberalization of our courts? Would that be the conservative supreme court that selected bush in 2000? Or ruled in Citizens United that big corporations could buy the elections for republicans.

Immigration policy. Obama just send thousands more border patrol and millions more for border security. More than bush did. And he has caught more illegal criminals, too.

What could be more elitist than the country club republicans who tell the unemployed to go **** themselves while pushing for the tax cuts for the rich?

This laundry list was right out of the playbook of some stupid right wing extreminst website or talk show. I feel like I have to explain this stuff over and over again - like a remedial teacher to slow learners. :thumbup:

Edited August 19, 201015 yr by Cleo's Mom

This has nothing to do with cons, liberal. I saw on cnn that Lebanon is sending a flotilla of female activists with medicine to break the Israeli blockade! Really, female Muslim activists! If they act out against their own countries theyll be brutally stoned to death! The next flotilla will be full of children. They know we westerners have a conscience( republicans excluded!) so theyre playing that card!

I just realized after re-reading, the word con in consrevative, how ironic! After all this time and proof im just now realizing!

Among the causes of deep resentment being held against Obama

by many conservative, freedom-loving Americans:

*Failed fiscal policies, including multiple stimuli,

bail-outs, TARPs and takeovers

*High unemployment that continues unabated

*Wealth redistribution and regressive tax polices

*Massive government expansion

*Out-of-control spending

*Shadow government of unvetted czars

*Subverting of our Constitution

*Slavish catering to radical special interest groups

*Disastrous foreign policy weakening America's

worldwide position and status

*Undermining core values of American culture

*Destabilizing of our military

*Liberalizing of our courts

*Ineffective immigration policy

*Condescending Leftist elitism

I seem to remember 1 or 2 stimulus attempts by Bush. The $600.00s he sent to working Americans so they would spend it to stimulate the economy, that worked well. I did appreciate the handout though, its very rare that a rep gives handouts! With that being said, it just gives truth to the fact once again that Bush created this mess!

You can tell election time is coming. Fox is talking about how Obama might not be Christian because he practices his faith at Camp David with no camera access and how he flip-fopped about the mosque! Again, Im so bitter and angy, why do I insist on watching that crap! CNN even seems to be crossing the line a little more than they used too but theyre 2 totally different worlds!

I feel like I have to keep posting this chart over and over again for those who don't "get it" and just cut and paste some old Obama bashing website posting.

Add to this chart the mandated social security, medicare, medicaid and unemployment - not to mention the military - and you have most of our government spending.

When asked to provide specific examples of these BIG Pres. Obama spending programs - none are given. That is right in line with what the republicans have - nothing.

Edited August 20, 201015 yr by Cleo's Mom

I seem to remember 1 or 2 stimulus attempts by Bush. The $600.00s he sent to working Americans so they would spend it to stimulate the economy, that worked well. I did appreciate the handout though, its very rare that a rep gives handouts! With that being said, it just gives truth to the fact once again that Bush created this mess!

That wasn't a stimulus. That was the crumbs bush threw to the middle class to deflect from the big, cushy, unnecessary and undeserved tax cut to the rich. They didn't need a tax cut, nor did they create jobs with it in the ten years they've had it (the present economy should be proof of that). They are doing very well, thanks to bush and his policies.

Talk about elitist!!!

Naming a czar is nothing new. Both Reagan and Bush had them. (But like so many things - it didn't become a problem until a black, democratic president had them)

Donald E. Powell.

Bush’s Czar to Rebuild Gulf Coast

John P. Walters.

Bush's Drug Czar

Karen Hughes.

Bush's Public Diplomacy Czar

Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute.

Bush's 'War Czar'

Randall Tobias.

Bush's AIDS Czar

Dr. Mark Dybul.

Bush's other AIDS Czar

Richard Stickler.

Bush's Mine Safety Czar

John Negroponte.

Bush's Intelligence Czar

Otto Reich.

Bush's Latin America czar

Carlton Turner.

Reagan's Drug Czar

David Stockman

Reagan's Budget Czar

Glenn Beck is an angry, hateful tv entertainer. And those who like what he says are likewise.

Examples of Glenn Beck's hate:

Hillary Clinton is a stereotypical bitch

Cindy Sheehan (lost a son in Iraq) is a tragedy slut

Pres. Obama is a racist and hates white people

Pres. Obama is filling his administration with communist agitators

"I'm thinking about killing Michael Moore and I'm wondering if I could kill him myself, or if I would need to hire someone to do it?"

"Every night I get down on my knees and pray that Dennis Kucinich will burst into flames."(He would have to be of the right faith to have this prayer heard, though)

"We've been sitting here for the last few minutes trying to come up with a list of people I want to kill with a shovel, people that I'd like to whack over the head with a shovel."

Said the victims of Hurricane Katrina were too dumb to get out of town.

He despises the families of victims of 9/11 saying it took him about a year to start hating them. So he said about them "Oh, just shut up! I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining"

Beck lashed out at the father of Nick Berg who was beheaded by Al Qaeda in Iraq. He says "I find this guy despicable. I think he's grieving but I think he's a scumbag as well. I don't like this guy at all."

So, you can see what a hater he is and only those who also hate would spend any time listening to him, liking him or believing what he says. It also speaks to his listeners intelligence and ability to be duped.

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