ELENATION

Well, could you at least provide the details of how all your complications developed? you don't want to name a surgeon or a doctor, at least provide details of all the complication in order so we can understand and hopefully figure out if it was a band or surgery or after care problem, because it seems from what you said that it could've been negligence from the hospital or that "maybe" the band surgery was done wrong.... in any of those two cases it wouldn't be band failure, but medical malpractice or negligence and blaming the band would be unfair and you obviously believe that all this happened to you because you got the lap band and because you have been told that the lap band will be taken out of the market because it doesn't work, so again, explain yourself... you don't really have to compromise your legal case by explaining the details of your surgery complications.

"The only way I can think of as to how his tubing would end up in the colon is this scenario: Band erodes a hole in the stomach, tubing somehow detaches and finds way into hole, and works way into colon from there. Again, it's possible, but I'd think it would be the equivalent of winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning at the same time." I loved your explanation, LOL! it would have to be a pretty lucky tubing to go through that odyssey and make it all the way down to the colon.

Well, I'm trying to understand your ordeal, could you give us details of everything? did your skin rupture when the port popped out? I'm trying to picture it and it's hard to imagine it, but I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but I just would like more information and details, unless we have details we really can't benefit from your story and you stated that's what you wanted to accomplish, I already have the band so at this point I can't do any homework about the lap-band, but if you tell me exactly how your complications developed, then I could try to avoid that path and then I could benefit from your story, I'm sorry, but until we know all the details this post does more harm than help to others unfortunately.

And I do feel bad too if indeed he has gone through all that, but his story with no details of pretty much anything makes it not too credible, a port sticking out of the stomach seems impossible to me, then again, what do I know..? hopefully he can find the picture and luckly his lawyer friend took that picture, I believe that band complications are VERY real, but this case is bizarre....

Please provide details of your journey, doctor's name, hospital, when you had it installed, and details of every complication, otherwise, it's pretty much impossible for us to picture this as an actual event and I'm not trying to be rude, I'm being honest, when I try to picture a port popping out of your stomach, your skin would have to rupture and why would that happen? and how? complications with the lap band are real, but I don't think it's possible for a port to just pop out through the skin, or maybe I'm the one who is not understanding you...? I apologize then, but I do think that if you can provide all the details, we could understand. Good luck

Well, but what may appear like a clump of cells at that early stage, to me is actual life, even if she/he still doesn't look like a human being yet, a newborn doesn't look like a full grown person either, but when the chromosomes from the father join with chromosomes from the mother, this new life/biological individual is complete and has a gender, and is ready to grow and develop until death, I'm sorry, I know I said that before.... :sad:but that's why I have such a hard time saying that it's a clump of cells because a clump of cells wouldn't have a set of DNA/gender and all and also because she/he needs the womb of the mother to keep growing doesn't mean it's not life , I can say, well, i'ts my body and my womb and I don't want a baby in there right now and I decide to take him/her out of my body right now and nobody can stop me, but that doesn't mean that I'm not ending a life, to me that means that I'm doing what I want or what I think I need to do now, but that is a life already growing inside me, I don't know, I just don't believe it's a clump of cells, once the cells have a set of DNA it's a human life to me and that happens at conception, that's why I believe that life begins right at conception, but this is only my perception from what I have learned or research.

Consistency yes! definitely, sex with minors shouldn't be allowed by the law anywhere in this country, the fact that they have allowed it in Texas before or that they do in some states is disturbing.

I understand where you are coming from Jennie and by the way ,the miniskirt comment was too funny.... I had a mental picture of a woman wearing an abaya covering the hair and a really short jilbab...oh gee....:crying: My concern at this Texas sect is that the underage girls were having sex with the older men and that goes against the laws of the land, so if there is no government intervention in order to respect their freedom of religion, we would be allowing them to break the law.. where do we draw the line..? and the fact that an underage girl called the authorities regarding the matter, which means that she probably was not consenting to the whole marriage and sex with the older men, and it's scary because if at some point the government is notified that at a certain church they are practicing human sacrifices with children and they couldn't intervene because it was part of their religious belief and we have to respect their freedom of religion, then imagine that.... I know this is a drastic example, but I just think that there's got to be a time where we draw the line and someone intervenes otherwise people would be hiding behind religions/churchs/cults to commit horrible acts and they would feel that they are safe and that there is nothing anybody can do about it.

Aw Green, we are here for you! and it means a lot to us that you keep us updated too, please take good care of yourself! Now I'm in the mood for a milkshake with whole milk, ice cream and bananas..... dang it..:crying:

LOL! we sure can baby!:crying: I understand, you are protecting the woman's right to choose, which it doesn't have to be necessarily your own view or belief, like I've heard prochoicers say that they would never have an abortion themselves, but they still want to protect the woman's right to choose , but say in my case, if I believe that from a scientific stand point life begins at conception and I say that it's ok to have an abortion, even for the sake of protecting the woman's right, (and I want to add that women's rights are extremely important to me ) then I feel like I'm saying that it's ok to end a life...and I feel like a hypocrite.. or contradicting myself, but I hear you, not everybody agrees with life beginning at conception and not everybody agrees with me...:crying:

Oh Thanks Luluc! I hear you, I think that the "beginning of life" is the main issue, but you are right it's not the only dynamic, but if at least we could all agree completely on the beginning of life, maybe not all, but I think a lot of people from both sides would end up agreeing at the end..., if I believed that life begins at 12 weeks of gestation and prochoicers believe the same thing, most of us wouldn't approve an abortion after that because we wouldn't want to end a life, except for the what ifs... which are the other dynamics like you said, but the whole issue would be a lot clearer and the differences would be less IMHO.

Oh Green, I'm so sorry, I'm glad that you posted and thank you because we've been thinking about you, even having a little nausea makes me feel crappy so I can only imagine what you are going through, I hope that the anti-nausea med that they gave you helps you, I wonder if they can get the patches that Kat was talking about too.. you do have good health care and for that I'm very happy because you are getting the best care possible, hang in there Green, I will keep praying and I'm thinking of you every day and keep us posted everytime you can. Big hug, Elenation

I do agree that the government shouldn't intervene if consenting adults are practicing polygamy within their church or as part of their religious beliefs , but that wasn't the case in El Dorado.... and still there are people that are against the intervention, I'm sorry but if there was any evidence of child/sexual abuse, even the smallest evidence, I think the government did the right thing.

Here are a couple of links... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24014376/ http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat http://cbs11tv.com/national/polygamist.sect.mothers.2.698762.html

Totally agree!

What do you think about the recent government intervention at the Polygamy Sect in Texas? I believe the children who were victims of abuse specially at the hands of their own parents are going to be better of and they are going to feel safer. But people have mixed feeling about the intervention and how it was done, my co-worker was just saying that when the government sticks its finger into private religious worlds, nothing good comes out of it... I feel that no matter the circumstances, sexual abuse cannnot be tolerated or any other type of child abuse and it should be prevented and if there was evidence showing that it was going on there, then I'm glad that the Texas government intervened, but some people wonder about the degree to which authorities reacted in this case with community evacuation or a breach of personal freedom or that it'is unconstitutional, what are your feelings about this? It comes down to freedom of religion, but in my opinion that freedom stops at sexual, physical or psychological abuse.

Thanks Jennie, you know, I feel that others state their opinions so much better than I do, I don't have a way with words believe me, and when I say things in a way that "sounds good" I probably had to put my good effort into it..LOL! often I'm impressed with the way people express themselves here so I don't write as much even when I want to...

Thanks BJean, I think I've said this before, maybe in different words..., but the fact that the two groups can't agree on the beginning of life is the key... I personally think that when the chromosomes from the father join the mother's, they form a unique biologic individual who didn't exist before and this new individual is complete, has a gender, and is fully and uniquely equipped to grow and develop and change until death and all he or she needs is nutrition and a place to grow, but that could apply also to a 3 months old baby as well, the baby wouldn't survive without nutrition and proper conditions either, I'm not comfortable saying that the embryo has the "potential" to become a human being, to me conception occurs at fertilization which equals the beginning of life for me, so I have a problem calling it a fertilized egg and instead I call him/her a baby and it all comes down to that I think, if you were convinced that life begins at conception or I was convinced otherwise we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. I totally agree that when both sides are shouting so loud, the real voices on this issue can't be heard, that's for sure.. and it's also true that those who reject abortion should step up and state their beliefs, which goes the same way for pro-choicers, in fact as long as both sides are doing that, it will probably keep the whole thing sort of balanced, you defend the right to choose for a woman and I defend the right to live for a baby, but I'm aware that you don't believe that it's a life yet, so obviously you are not intentionally trying to kill anyone and ultimately I also want the best for the woman too. I wish there was a 200% clear way of proving when life begins and that we could all see so clearly that we could agree, that would end the whole debate..

Hey Green!!!!!!!!!!! just to tell you that I'm thinking of you! check in when you can, we miss you!

This year we actually got a little bit back, usually we don't or we have to pay back... so this year I did it right away... otherwise I wait also till the last minute.... so you are not alone dear...

I'm sorry about your situation, I can see how hard it is, you know, with my husband, motivation works by me being harder on him... I know it may sound harsh, but I've tried everything and that's my best option.. and in this case specially after a long period of time that he hasn't been working, but not everybody responds well to this approach... and I'm sorry I don't have a better idea for you, and I hope things get better soon.

This debate is going nice today.... My faith definitely has influenced my thoughts on this subject , but only in some ways, my views on choice/prolife have been down many roads before ending where they are today. I understand that pro-choicers stand their position firmly because they believe they're defending the fundamental value of choice, which I think it's very valid and I understand that pro-lifers stand their position firmly because they believe they're defending the fundamental value of life and how can we not find that valid as well...? I also believe that life begins at conception and for me personally that does it... if I could be convinced that life begins at a later stage of a woman's pregnancy, then I would draw the line there, then I wouldn't have a problem with abortion until that momentl..., now if we assume that life begins at conception, then where does that put the issue of a woman's right to choose? I think choice is great, it is part of what makes us humans after all, I defend a woman's right to choose a career, schools or housing , I defend her choice to decide whether to have sex, or with whom, and how often, among many other choices, whether I agree with those choices is irrelevant, because they are her choices, but I don't think that absolute choice is a guaranteed human right because think about it, society already tells us that we cannot choose to abuse a child or to steal a car or that we can't choose to burglarize a home because that would be against the basic rights of the person who lives there.... I think that when our right to choose bumps against the right of another person to exist then our choice is blocked by the law, but of course this is all assuming that we believe that life begins at conception... which in my case I just had to accept there was a moral point at which a woman's right to choose would have to end because a her right to decide what to do with her body in this case goes against the right of the baby to exist..and I personally can't live with that... however, I'm responsible only for what goes on in my heart and my head because believe me I know that crisis with pregnancies are real and serious and plenty, I don't dismiss those horrific situations at all and I hope that other prolifers don't either because that would be unkind to say the least, I just don't think that is the case though, because it wouldn't make sense for someone to care so much for a baby's life and not care at all for the mother's life, makes no sense to me, but you know, ultimately more pro-lifers, should be helping women through unplanned pregnancies or in crisis situations. I do think that some and probably many pro-lifers do this already but more should....I think that pregnant women and babies both deserve the same kind of respect and much respect and we should make major efforts to help them.

I'll be happy to... I came back to this thread today as I noticed an e-mail notification showing that Snuffy brought up my name and my posts , so I felt I needed to answer, I believe I have commented to her posts once in the past other than today, never really had much interaction with her, so don't get all the personal attacks and some troll comment she made, even if we look at the dates we joined here, I've been in LBT for a long time, so for someone who joined just a few months ago here to call someone else a troll who posts regularly it's beyond ridiculous and unfair to say the least, the thread has indeed gotten very childish and not worth of further discussion right now, thank you for for the advise, you are a wise woman.

Well, I honestly don't care what "anyone" here thinks, I DID NOT mean it as a personal attack, I meant to say that saying the words "church goers" are not a sin, and that there are plenty of things that are wrong that we do, you, me and everyone else that I'm sure are truly sins, that IS what I meant, again, your perception and I don't care who else's perception if it's the same as yours was and is wrong. Just a few minutes ago you made a comment about parrot being an animal.... bla,bla.... and went on to say that it sounds like "someone that posts here...." well, I believe you were talking about me because I was the only one that was called that word, however when someone asked you, you said that you didn't address it to anyone in particular, it's hard for me to believe you, but if you say you didn't , then that's fine and I accept it. Please don't try to tell me what I actually meant in my previous post, as I won't try to tell you what I think you meant when you posted about a "little parrot" sometimes it's all a matter of perception.

You said that because I didn't think "church goers" was the best choice of words for people who attended church that YOU were going to confession, so I replied to you by saying to go ahead and do it if you wanted to, therefore you took what I said out of context, and how my response "sounded" to you was simply inaccurate and you decided to take it personal. I don't know why you think I'm being hypocritical... I believe I'm being truthful, but it's your right to think whatever you want, although I'm sure you are not going to keep this up since it rolls off your back like water....