MemphisWLS

I just found out yesterday that Cigna approved me for surgery. It took 5 days to get an approval. I think I am still in shock that this has now come to be a reality and no longer just research. I had already prepared myself to be denied due to my BMI was 39 when I started but I lost 14 lbs during my 3 month dietician visits. Plus, my co morbidity was sleep apnea and I have SVT, which I didn't think they would consider as one of the major co mornidities. I am so excited ???? and scared. I find out my official date this week but they are pushing for first week in Dec. My surgeon will be Dr Clayton Frenzel in Arlington, Tx.. he also has an office in Dallas as well. I can not wait to embark on the new journey of becoming a healthier me ..I welcome any advice, comments, encouragement ..I need it all. I have been researching this surgery for 4 years and now it's becoming my truth. I think I'm ready.

Here's my take on it, and as with anything else online, take what works for you and leave the rest.

And this is my 3rd attempt, my computer apparently doesn't want me commenting. LOL.

When I rant, I try to keep it focused on my issues. "I get frustrated by ..." rather than saying "so-and-so is an idiot". I have honestly seen very little in the way of true personal attacks on this board, for which I am grateful.

Here's the issues as I see them.

1. People who want validation for their choices. Frankly, we're all adults here, and I don't get the need for validation or some kind of forgiveness or absolution. I don't feel a need to shame them for their choice, and I don't agree that shaming them is a good response. (Of course, I've seen very little of that.) However, if the people who post "my doctor didn't tell me anything about a post-op diet" actually did not get good information about how to eat post-op, they need to have an opportunity to get better information than nothing. For this to be successful, we cannot continue eating and making choices about eating the way we always have. Saying "from my perspective that wasn't a good choice" is not the same as shaming them. To me, this is a little like AA. You don't see people coming to AA and saying "hey, I had a beer yesterday" and having people respond "that's OK sweetie, we're all human". No. The response is "we're all human, and we make mistakes, but you get that it was a mistake right?" That's not shaming, it's being honest about how their choice fits in.

Note about #1. I don't do low-carb. If I came on the board and posted about eating bread, and had 15 vets go "hon, bread is the devil, you won't be successful that way" I wouldn't feel that they were shaming me or telling me how to eat. That is their experience, and they are the ones who have lived this a heck of a lot longer than I have. They don't know that my eating plan is approved by my doc, all they know is their instructions, and their experience. It would be crappy of me to then start blasting them for sharing what they know in an attempt to help me. And I don't know what I don't know... not restricting carbs may bite me in my ample butt. I may not make goal or be able to maintain because of it. I'll let you know how it goes in another 10 months or so. In the meantime, I don't go around the board slamming vets for preaching low-carb, or trying to preach a non-low-carb diet. I sometimes will point out that not all of us have that option, or we have a different plan from our docs, but I don't get testy about it.

2. People who are reading this board and either don't have a strong surgical team to support them, and read all the coddling posts saying "that's OK, we're all human" or "I did that too, and I'm fine so don't worry" ESPECIALLY WHEN they're talking about early post-op periods. Those of us who are medical professionals or have extensive experience (vets) may feel a responsibility to them to make sure the only voices out there are not the ones saying "don't worry" when there's PLENTY of cause to worry.

As an aside: I'm coming to hate the term "cheating" like LipstickLady. When you're talking about a post-operative (especially for a major stomach surgery) diet progression, it's not "cheating" on a diet. It's violating your post-surgical instructions from your surgical team, and it CAN BE DEADLY. It won't be in the majority of cases, but we have no way to know when it will land someone in the ICU or the morgue, or when it won't. You can choose to deviate from your instructions, you're an adult. But by gosh, I'm not going to let you tell someone else that they shouldn't worry without at least voicing the very real potential for disaster.

3. The rants about it come from the way the vets and those who are trying to be a voice of reason are slammed and attacked for doing so. I have seen vets called mean or judgmental when I read nothing mean or judgmental in their tone, their only crime was refusing to become an echo chamber for the "it's OK sweetie, we're all human, don't worry about it" nonsense.

As a nurse, I'm frankly scared for the people who don't seem to take this surgery as seriously as they need to. That's what I'm hearing from people who start rants like this, as well. We don't want people to fail. We want everyone on this board to succeed. Even if you are a person I just can't stand, I still want you to succeed. Coddling bad choices and normalizing them is NOT the way to help those who are serious about this succeed.

(stepping off the soapbox)

THERE WAS A POST HERE LAST NIGHT ABOUT sleeve "failure" after lap band "failure". She lost weight after both surgeries and (insert a long list of "reasons" ) gained it all back. How is that a "lap and "failure" or sleeve "failure"? The person is thinking of a third surgery.... I can't believe an ethical doctor would agree to this but she will likely get another surgery and in two years an ounce that it has also "failed".
Makes me want to scream.

Definitely. We all communicate ideas in our way, and as long as we get our point across, it's effective communication.
I am a fairly empathetic person. So I try to imagine walking a mile in someone else's shoes to level with them.
Hey, I struggled financially after graduating from university. I don't have to imagine how frustrating and challenging that battle is, because I fought it.
I lost and regained 100lbs in the past 5 years, so I don't have to dig very deep to remember the intense shame, disgust and disappointment I felt when I see people struggling with regain.
What I don't, cannot, WILL NOT do is accept self pitying "woe is me" attitudes. Despite my things not always turning out the way I might like, I refuse to feel sorry for myself. And I will not offer sympathy to people who put themselves in situations or set themselves up for failure and come online fidhibgvfir compliments or sympathy,
It IS hard. So do either something about it, or quit. But don't expect me to feel sorry for you.

Sorry, whatever was I thinking?
So, can I eat chicken wings and have beer 8 days post op?

@@Hammer_Down
We don't need people like you on these forums. Now take your no nonsense, common sense, perfectly sane posts and be gone! You're stinking up the joint!

@@frananp03 said:
"We have a choice...it may not be an easy choice but its still a choice. We have an opportunity to change after WLS and we should seize it to make better choices. Not ruin it by continuing with the same bad behavior."
Well said. Pretty much sums up this whole discussion. I might just use this as my tagline!!

Blunt but still not judgmental: No, I didn't "cheat" on my pre or post op diet. I'd suggest you check with your surgeon before you (insert request for validation). Around these parts judgmental seems to equal disagreeing. Having a different point of view or opinion doesn't make one a monster. True story.

Thank you, likeminded people!
I'm still pre-op for about 17 days. I have been staying off this site and chosen the posts I read carefully. I have made a plan for my wls journey and I don't want to stray from it because someone else makes self destructive choices. I got worried that the bad attitudes would catch me like a cold.
When I first joined, I found it amusing to read about the tacos, t-bone steaks by mistake and swedish fish beeing soft food. All the things you should know not to do if you did your research, even skimming through the basics.
Lately I have been talking to people who have just had their surgeries, read up on complications and really thought about my choice. I find that more valuable than trying to talk to the people who made their bad choices already and end their posts with "no negative comments allowed".
But then again, I need the people that make the mistakes, so my odds of reaching a healthy weight increases...
Thanks for being here and please hold me accountable if I stray off my intendend plan! No fuzzy feelings or pretty packages required, I need to make the most of it!
Nilla

Just so we're clear, the word "judgemental" gets thrown around a lot on this forum. You can feel judged by someone, even if they weren't being judgemental and that is your own issue. Not being able to accept the truth.
Judgmental: "I'm a much better person than you, and always will be because I didn't cheat on my pre-op diet. Failures like you don't deserve this wonderful opportunity to change their lives for the better because you're just going to waste it anyway."
Enabling: "I know, I cheated on my pre-op diet too and I was fine so I wouldn't worry about it! It's just a suggested diet anyway and you know what your body needs more than some doctor! You got this girl!"
Bullying: "Why are you so stupid? Morons like you should be taken out of the gene pool, since you obviously took a shallow dive to begin with. If I was there right now I'd seriously whoop you because I can't stand people who come around here looking for sympathy because they are screw ups."
Supportive: "I can appreciate that this is really hard, because I went through it myself 2 years ago. The temptations don't go away, you will probably always struggle some. But it gets easier the longer you make the right choices. I think you really need to consider why you had this surgery if you aren't making 100% efforts to follow your doctor's guidelines."

Thanks, I'm a new member to the forum but not new to the game. I mentioned before that not I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm not a nasty or mean spirited person. My friends all know not to ask my opinion if what they really want is validation. I don't want them telling people that I thought it was a good idea to purchase a brand new car when the car they had worked just fine and they're not employed full time. (Just an example, had 2 friends trying to convince me that "projecting success" is more important than being financially solvent, and I do not agree).

Incredible. Congrats and thx for the post. Inspiring!!!
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I don't care about the flak...I'm fed up. And I'm ranting about it. I see these people here, in my support group, in the waiting room at my doctor's office...they're everywhere. Complaining, whining, justifying their own crappy choices by asking others to validate them. I'm raising two sons to NOT be backseat drivers to their choices, to not blame their self-created misfortune on others...it's a personal peeve of mine. YMMV, of course.

I think there is a clear distinction between sitting in judgement and enabling behaviour. Adults should be able to criticize behaviour without being accused a bullying or sending someone off the emotional deepend.
I worked with youth in a Cadet program, and most of my 12-18 year olds could handle criticism better than some of the people on this forum. We taught the. No excuses, take the advice and make the correction and move on. No hard feelings.
I consider food to be a bonafide addiction. Withdrawals, denial of the problem, denial of the consequences, inability to accept the finality of quitting, inability to
imagine life without the comfort foods they are so addicted to.
When I see people seeking validation for cheating their "rehab" from food addiction, I mentally replace the Halloween candy, chips, or whatever with alcohol, smack, crack, cocaine, meth, morphine, heroin, cigarettes or whatever.
If someone was attempting to quit one of those addictive and destructive substances after years of abuse and destroying their health, how understanding would you be? "it's ok, a little won't hurt, get back on the wagon tomorrow, we all have setbacks, it happens to everyone, try not to be too hard on yourself, etc etc"
Or maybe a "what the hell are you thinking? Are you crazy? Why would you set yourself back to day 1?"
Just my opinion.

@@Diva Taunia **Being judgemental with each other NEVER helps. Support is not judgemental. Support is support. You're there through the good times and the bad listening, lending an ear, giving the best advice you can through a supportive and encouraging lens that won't further damage someone(s) already struggling.**
Yep, which is why I'm VERY supportive in the regular forums. I seldom say much more than 'no, you should not do that'. But this is Rants and Raves, and I'm ranting and raving

I agree,..I'm 8 mo post op. I personally discovered my personal addiction to food when i started my pre liquid diet. I seriously didn't realize the magnitude of my addiction. I also didn't realize i was that huge!!! I recently held up my sz 28 shorts against my now sz 14 body and asked my husband.....why didn't u tell me i was this huge? He replied by saying. ..thats why i let u blow 18 thousand in 1 day. Lol.....
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What other reason should there be than meeting an arbitrary requirement? Hell, if it's the difference between being at a BMI of 39.8 and being denied and a BMI of 40.1 and getting approved - I'd boost my weight for the important weigh in without even thinking about it!
When it comes to insurance companies and meeting their weight requirements I'd classify that "roll of quarters" as an act of pure self-defense.

@@JamieLogical, did you use OCC. I have been researching Mexico and Dr. Ariel Ortiz, I like him and his facility a lot. Any tips why you chose him?
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So sorry @Cocoon2butterfly. They cannot stop your inner butterfly from emerging my dear. What insurance do you have? Before you go in on 3rd appeal be prepared. Browse this site, there are so many awesome stories and tips, even appeal letters that others used to finally get approved, that have been posted here on BP to help all those in the process. I have learnt a lot through them. You will be in my thots n prayers.
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OMG. I just posted about how I took a suitcase full of stuff. I had Protein drinks in there, because I'm a picky eater and worried that I wouldn't like what they had at the hospital. I took my laptop and my phone and my eReader. I took my CPAP (that we actually didn't end up using at all because I elevated the head of my bed). I took a sweater and slippers and my home meds and Water flavoring and gas-x strips and I don't even remember what all. I know it was a carryon bag stuffed to the gills.
Do you know what I actually used from all of that?
My smart phone.
My toothbrush and toothpaste (I hate the ones they have at the hospital).
A change of underwear.
That's it.
I do wish I'd packed a heating pad and maybe a nice pillow.
If I'd not packed all the other crap, I'd have had room. LOL.
I used a second hospital gown as a robe when I was walking, and they preferred I use the grippy socks they have. I wore the same clothes home that I wore to the hospital (since I was in them a grand total of 2 hours they weren't dirty. Ended up, post-op I didn't like any of the Protein stuff I bought beforehand, and the Premier Protein they had at the hospital was what I could actually tolerate. I didn't end up flavoring the Water, because I was only able to sip about an ounce at a time. I couldn't focus on anything to read, so I just zombie-watched whatever was on TV (a lot of Criminal Minds as I recall) and screwed around facebooking and such on my phone when I wasn't sleeping.
Don't forget chargers for whatever electronics you take.
Other than that, just think minimally. You likely won't need 1/2 of what you think you will.

I packed a full bag and didn't use anything but my phone. I had my hair tied down and the hospital provided everything else. Body wash, deodorant, robe, slippers, tooth brush, tooth paste, lotion and even underwear. I'm sure Aetna will pay dearly for it lol
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Do the math and you will figure out that half of the world is below average. WLS people are no different. There is a Bell Curve on intelligence and ability to learn as well as self control. It is not surprising to me that 5-10% of comments are insane. I am actually surprised that these comments are rare enough that it makes so many people on this board stop what they are doing and run to their keyboards.
But as far as support groups go, I have been very impressed with this one. I have enjoyed my two years here. I have lurked on others and was not impressed. They were obviously not monitored. I have to give @@Alex Brecher credit for keeping it as sane as it is here.

I think that number one, the tone of a lot of posts from some newcomers is one of, "I didn't get any education about any of this prior to surgery and have no idea what I'm doing." Other than that, I see some that are clearly seeking to go off-program and are hoping to have ANYONE enable their decision. All it'll take is one or two people saying, "Go for it!" Even if there are 50 saying, "That's ridiculous."
While it's true that different programs prescribe different plans, and there are variations (I was allowed to skip the pureed stage, for instance), the guidelines are more or less the same. Eliminate sugar as much as possible, cut down on the fat, prioritize Protein and eat complex carbs, avoiding simple ones like bread, Pasta and rice. That is pretty standard, across the board. So don't come and ask whether pizza or chicken wings are okay, one week post-surgery. You already know the answer.
If you want to know if something is okay to eat, call your surgeon's office and ask the dietician who should be helping you. If you don't have one, read the litany of advice available via Google search, or trust the MAJORITY opinion that you get on a board like this one. The gist of the feedback is almost always going to be, "Take it slow, don't rush, and make much better decisions than you did pre-op."

Honestly, I think a lot of people do NOT know what they are supposed to be eating and not eating. I didn't see that post, but lots of people ask questions here about things they should have been taught by their medical team. How can you go home from just having most of your stomach removed and have no idea what you are supposed to be eating and avoiding??

Definitely check your B12 and have some blood work done. I felt like that in the first 3 months now I'm trying to sleep more. I get 5 hours. I'm up at 4am everyday for the gym or to go biking. I use Multivitamin patch from PatchMD and a monthly b12 injection from my dr.   .
The last two pictures were from last night and today.