biginjapan

@@xoxococojay
On one hand I think it is important for people to know that they can have a "normal" life long term post-op. I eat out. I don't eat crap but I eat out. Like for example there is a sandwich place near my office. I order the Italian beef, they put it in a cup with Au Jus and cheese for me. So yeah I'm eating out but there are zero carbs there.
My issue with that post is that person is not even going to try and lead a healthy life at all. They are right back on the trash peasant food wagon as soon as they get a chance. Then 6 to 9 months from now they will be posting how RNY failed them, and they regret surgery, never lost weight and can't get back on track. Well it is pretty much impossible to get back on track when you never started on track.
I don't like those posts, but it reminds me of how much I have accomplished by changing my attitude towards food and also how easy it is to slide back into old habits if you don't change your attitude about food.
So let those posts keep coming. You can find knowledge and victory in other peoples failures.
I have an associate that had RNY (I feel like RNY people are the least compliant post op, they think malabsorption is going to save them forever), she lost a lot of weight the first year. Then she stopped losing. She NEVER changed her attitude about food. Kept going out to eat all the time with her family, she just ate less. She never cooked. Never learned nutrition. She started out super morbidly obese, but she is still obese now, her BMI is such she would still qualify for surgery right now today and she over 4 years post-op. Her failure at using her tool properly and learning was my guide on what not to do.
So let people make fools of themselves and learn from their mistakes. You can't save everyone, just worry about yourself.

Alex,
I am a big believer in private property, and you invested time/money/talent creating a working site such as this, I do considerate "private property" not public domain. So, I do respect your right to make editorial decisions.
That said phrases like "safe spaces" in the current political/cultural environment are now "trigger" words to me. (Ironic I'm using that verbiage). It does leave a very bad taste in my mouth.
One of the most endearing parts of this online community was the frank adult discussion on a wide variety of topics. That's probably what has brought me back here more often than I really should. As a whole, I have found the conversations to be of higher than average quality. It is always interesting getting the perspective of people worldwide, as well as those from NYC and major metropolitan areas and the handful of us in flyover country.
I have always had two reasons for actively taking part in this community...first was to try and give back and help others because I sure needed it early on. Second was the wealth of knowledge I would not have ever found on my own because I would not have known what to Google.
I'll keep an eye open, to see if this place is still worth my time. Frankly, I have enjoyed the tough love comments and while I am not looking for drama, I've never seen anything excessive. There are plenty of other boards which I have been part of that have more than their share of trolls, but this one has not been one to my way of thinking.
Since I am not privy to the PM's I have no idea of what is so bothersome, but I really have enjoyed the contributions of those who have been banned and that is why I am publically offering a sincere wish you would reconsider. But as I said this is your project and investment.

I got a PM from OP complaining that I made her feel like <whatever curse word she used>. All because I told her the 3 week stall was normal and her Dr should have explained her surgery to her better.
THIS IS WHY VETS DO NOT BOTHER POSTING HERE ANYMORE.

What you've listed here is exactly the same as with "conventional dieting", except the recovery phase. Ever heard of Optifast? I didn't do it but compared to the length of their liquid phase, the surgical liquid phase pales in comparison.
Compared with what I have endured with dieting in the past I'd choose surgery over and over again (but I admit that I had a easy recovery with almost no pain at all).
As for plastics: even if one chooses not to have surgery to lose weight, plastics might be necessary.
I understand that surgery is no breeze (I've had it myself after all) but it sometimes seems to me that there is so much emphasize on the "hard work"... as if obese people weren't allowed to "take the easy way" because they have to "pay for their sins". The sad part about this is: even obese people seem to think this way and emphasizing all this "hard work and commitment" sometimes seems like a kind of justification. I also think that people are making their lives harder as they need to be by telling themselves that "they have to work hard".
I'm not saying, that there is no work and commitment involved after WLS - but is it really as hard as it was with conventional dieting? If you do think so, why? Because I think not having to battle constant hunger because of Portion Control or having to fill up on disgusting low-cal food and feeling full, but somehow empty nevertheless is a blessing and takes out a lot of the hard work.
Is there work involved after WLS? Of course. There are slider-foods etc. after all. Is it "as hard as before"? I don't think so. Because if it was "as hard as before" - why get surgery in the first place?

Wow...the last time I had a date was in1999... Of course, that's when i was at my thinnest (i.e. at normal BMI). That said, I've never been attracted to extremes of any kind - too tall, too skinny, too fat, too muscular - as long as guys have fit into a more average category, whether it be from athletic to dad bod, then the most important thing has always been about personality, humour, intelligence, etc. I do remember once being attracted to a guy who was obese (he was tall and heavy, so carried it well), but decided not to pursue the relationship because I needed to be with someone who would encourage good habits with me, not bad ones (amongst other reasons).
Most of my life I've been overweight or borderline obese, but recently I've come to realise that I have gone from being overweight to obese to morbidly obese in less than 8 years, despite all the weight loss efforts during that time. Like the OP, I haven't dated or followed-up on the few bits of interest I've had over the years because I have not felt attractive enough (or have felt somewhat suspicious of the pursuer - why would he possibly like me at this weight? Something must be up). And even if I'm lucky enough to lose all my excess weight, then there will be the loose skin and deflated boobs - so I know that that will be another thing I need to get fixed before I maybe have a shot at feeling attractive and wanting to be with someone, scars and all.
However, to answer the OP: I've been friends with all shapes and sizes throughout my life and I rarely judge anyone, regardless of how well I know them, because I know full well that a) being large does not necessarily equate to being unfit or unhealthy, that you never know the full reasons why someone is the size they are, and c) if people are losing weight, you don't know what stage they are at. That said, while I try not to judge anyone for their size, if I was to start dating someone, I guess the biggest turnoff for me would not necessarily be their size, but their lifestyle - both in terms of exercise and nutrition. I definitely couldn't be with someone who was a pusher (of food or drink) or an enabler that would get me off-track. But...I haven't even had my surgery yet (less than a month to go!) so this isn't something I'll have to worry about for a while.

My views on fat people? Well... I don't care that much actually, when outside I am either hanging out with my friends or my family, and if I am on my own, I just keep on listening to music and walking, I don't pay attention to people at all and I am quite often in my very own "bubble", I don't feel pity or compassion, neither disgust or any negative feeling. These are just people going on with their life, all of them.
I personally don't know many fat persons, except for one of my sister, she's aware of the problem and tries to lose weight, so I don't push her around because I know how my family works: the more someone from my family told me I needed to lose some kilos, the more I headed in the opposite direction, and I think she works the same way.
I also have this couple of friends that are very overweight, but they love each other and they're probably the happiest couple I know.
On the dating side, well, I have been single for a good four years and I was feeling like the most unattractive being on the planet, so I didn't even make a move or even dared to think about it.
But now I am thin, I must admit I don't find very overweight and/or obese people attractive and to be honest I actually never have.
I hated myself as an obese (young) man, I hated every single aspect of my overweightness, and I don't want to find myself alongside with someone who has poor life habits, the exact same ones I escaped from to build a new healthy lifestyle, it's a turned page and I do not intend to reread it by any means.

When I see someone who is severely overweight, I really want to give them advice, and maybe help them make a similar decision. But, it's difficult to tell someone they may want to consider surgery.
As far as dating goes, I have never been attracted to extremely overweight people (but I have been attracted to slightly overweight people). I had barely any interest in dating because I was overweight, and I actually didn't want anyone to find me attractive, since I didn't feel attractive. Not only that, but I didn't want anyone to be attracted to me because being severely overweight doesn't feel like the "real me".

my pre opp diet is a mixture of Protein drinks, low cal. meals and fruits and veggies.
Sent from my SM-G925T using the BariatricPal App

Something struck me watching My 600 Pound Life with my BF last night. He and I have been dating a little over 6 months. He never knew me pre-op. He never saw me fat. He has only seen me at my goal weight. He watched me complete a marathon back in September. This is the only me he knows.
He knows I had WLS and he sees the way I have to eat now. He teases me about it, jokes about it, and is sometimes just genuinely baffled by it. He also sees how much exercise I do to maintain my weight. Anyway, watching the show last night, he was still sooooo full of contempt for the featured patient. He made several negative comments that were pretty offensive to me about the way she looked and what she was eating pre-op. Then post-op, when she was struggling to eat 4 teaspoons of Soup, he was shocked about how difficult her recovery was.
It occurred to me that I have seen this kind of reaction and thought process from a LOT of people who think WLS is the "easy way out". They say it's cheating and it's easy, but when confronted with how difficult the recovery is and how little food people can eat post-op, they have this "how/why would you do that to yourself" kind of response. It seems rather hypocritical, but very common.

If we all woke up from surgery skinny, fit from workouts, without sagging skin and without the need for Vitamins and life long check ups, then yes, I could see how wls could be considered an easy way out.
We all have to endure surgery, recovery, possible complications, liquid diets, learning what we can eat, exercise, track all food and liquids, cut back on social drinking, possible endure corrective surgery and recovery and finally maintain all that we accomplished, with the work WE did.
So yeah, go ahead, call us lazy. We are saving money, since we can cut back on meds. We did this so we can be productive members of society, instead of couch potatoes. We can take care of our elderly family members etc.
I'm proud that I had the courage to have this surgery. I still don't tell everyone I know about it, since it's my personal medical desicion. If someone asks or is thinking about having the surgery, I will be happy to explain and tell my story. My obese friends know about it, because they might benefit from seeing me do it. The skinny people in my life don't need the info, so why should I tell them?
I don't agree that it is my obligation to educate people, just because they are curious.
My friend was born transgender and she told me that she was having corrective surgery and started living as her tru self. I don't need to know the specifics or see the results of her surgery. I'm simply happy for her that she is now able to be herself and I can see the huge improvement in her everyday life.
Nilla

Wow - I love this thread! Like many others here I wear minimal makeup, but I've basically been doing the same thing for the last 20-odd years. I've been thinking about having a makeup tutorial when I'm in the States, just to give me some ideas of where to start. I'm happy to see that Sephora now ships to Japan, but I've already put about $1000 worth of products in my cart, so maybe that's not such a good thing...
Anyway, lots of great ideas here!

@@theantichick
As far as makeup, go to Sephora and get ColorIQ matched. It takes all the guess work out of getting the right foundation.
If you have the right foundation, everything else falls in place. If you are over 40, your foundation should cost over $40, if it doesn't you are just borrowing trouble. The more expensive foundation costs more but you use less so it lasts longer so you save long term. My suggestions are Dior, Armani, YSL, or Lancome, depending on what your color matches are. They don't have Armani in the Sephora stores, so when you are color matched, just go to Nordstrom and get a sample of your color. DO NOT BUY A FOUNDATION UNTIL YOU HAVE APPLIED IT YOURSELF AND WORN IT ALL DAY FIRST. Get all the samples, try a different one each day, then buy the one you like the best and can apply the easiest, that is going to vary with everyone. I like to use liquid foundation and set it with a powder. If you aren't that great with makeup, then just a powder foundation with a big brush is the most forgiving. If you start filling your brows in, the trick to make them look good is to brush them again after you fill them.
MAC is only good for lipsticks and eyes. Their foundations are crap. They are okay if you are young and starting out, but they aren't good for mature/maturing skin. When it comes to foundation, be a snob, everything else, you can slum it.
I think the whole color concept for clothes is silly, but I'm also a skin tone that I can wear pretty much any color in the rainbow and it works for me.
I also don't subscribe to dressing your age. That is an outdated concept. I'm 40ish, I look 30ish, so I dress 30ish. I wear what I want. I work in corporate America, in upper management. I wear nice suits, but I pop them with a lot of color, so I might wear a dark suit, a bight colored shell and bright pumps to match. I express my personality in my clothes. I don't want to look older, I don't need to look older to command respect in the workplace. I was in middle management in corporate America in my early 20s and I commanded respect, because I earned it based on my skills not my looks. Dress how you want. No one who is in their 40s acts like it anymore anyway. This is 2017.

@@vegbeth It takes time. Getting your Protein and Water in should be your top priorities and definitely don't go overboard with exercise until you are eating enough calories to sustain it. You will just work on gradually increasing your calories as you get further out from surgery. I wasn't even on solid foods until 30 days post-op. But I did push pretty hard to get up over 800 calories right after that so I could start doing some longer walks and then 1100 calories so I could start running and strength training. Once you are over 1000 a day, you should be able to start doing more serious exercise and just gradually increasing your calories as you increase your workout intensity.

Awesome topic! Thanks everyone! I thought I was eating too much compared to others on this site at about 3 months out (800-900 cal /day), but have been struggling making through workouts lately. Lots of reassuring info in this thread...
PS - I had actually stopped coming to the site regularly because it seems like everyone asks the same questions over, and over, and over again (search function anyone?). Big thank you to all the veterans for chiming in!

I recommend having your RMR tested and pegging your calories to that instead of guessing. DEXA scans also help with determining calories because it can determine you lean mass.
In general though, people should try to get to 1100-1200 calories as soon as possible.
First month, the best you can, 600-800
2nd month 800-1000
3rd month and beyond 1100/1200 min plus more calories depending on your activity level and lean mass..
Still it is better to work with some professionals on determining these goals, instead of just guessing.
RMR and DEXA scans can be obtained in most places in the US. If you have a local research university nearby it might be more affordable than you think.

I think your ability to lose weight a couple years out from WLS is completely dependent upon what you did to your metabolism immediately post-op. Some people have *clearly* wrecked their metabolism by restricting calories WAY too much. I have seen people on these forums who claim to gain weight if they eat any more than 850 or 1000 calories a day a couple years post-op. I would accuse them of inaccurately tracking their calories, but there have been too many of them to ignore.
Meanwhile, if you lost more slowly, ate enough to keep your metabolism up, and did some exercise to help keep your metabolism working, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to lose weight a couple years out, because your metabolism should still be intact. You should still be able to lose weight through a simple caloric deficit created by restricting calories and increasing activity.
For example, I am maintaining now. I am a pretty serious runner, but haven't run for the past two months, because I have had literally NO time as I have moved into and am renovating my new home. Back when I was running regularly, I had to eat 2200 to 2400 calories a day in order to NOT lose weight. Now that I haven't been running regularly, I have gained a few pounds, which is to be expected, since I haven't really cut back on my eating. I fully anticipate that I will be able to lose those pounds when I begin training for my next half marathon later this month.

I've lost more than 50 pounds, but I swear this is the first time I've REALLY felt it: sitting on an airplane and easily putting on the seatbelt. Not only did I put it on [something I couldn't always do before QQ] but I put it on without tugging, pulling, or "sucking it in". And then, when I dropped my tray table, it didn't immediately bounce back up off my belly -- NAY! THERE WAS ROOM BETWEEN THE TOP OF MY THIGHS AND THE TRAY TABLE!
I can't remember the last time I could use a tray table on an airplane. It's dumb, but it's horribly exciting.

Thanks! I am doing awesome. I have maintained at goal for 15+ month and I completed a full marathon in September!

To quote Dr. Lustig, from his book, Fat Chance (2014):
"It's from (the) perception of choice that we derive our current societal mantras around obesity: gluttony and sloth, two of the original 'seven deadly sins.' (...) people exhibiting the other five deadly sins (...) have gotten a pass in the press and in society as a whole. ...
We've found absolution for nearly every vice and sin we can commit, except for these two. They continue to defy our society's ability to forgive. This despite the fact that 55 percent of Americans are either overweight or obese. Thin people are now in the minority, yet our culture continues to punish the majority. ...
Our society continues to glorify thinness even though it appears to be less achievable every year. Those of us who are overweight or obese are immediately assumed to be gluttons and/or sloths. (...) From this condemnation, it's a quick jump to the determination that obese people became so due to a behavioral defect."

To quote Dr. Lustig, from his book, Fat Chance (2014):
"It's from (the) perception of choice that we derive our current societal mantras around obesity: gluttony and sloth, two of the original 'seven deadly sins.' (...) people exhibiting the other five deadly sins (...) have gotten a pass in the press and in society as a whole. ...
We've found absolution for nearly every vice and sin we can commit, except for these two. They continue to defy our society's ability to forgive. This despite the fact that 55 percent of Americans are either overweight or obese. Thin people are now in the minority, yet our culture continues to punish the majority. ...
Our society continues to glorify thinness even though it appears to be less achievable every year. Those of us who are overweight or obese are immediately assumed to be gluttons and/or sloths. (...) From this condemnation, it's a quick jump to the determination that obese people became so due to a behavioral defect."

To quote Dr. Lustig, from his book, Fat Chance (2014):
"It's from (the) perception of choice that we derive our current societal mantras around obesity: gluttony and sloth, two of the original 'seven deadly sins.' (...) people exhibiting the other five deadly sins (...) have gotten a pass in the press and in society as a whole. ...
We've found absolution for nearly every vice and sin we can commit, except for these two. They continue to defy our society's ability to forgive. This despite the fact that 55 percent of Americans are either overweight or obese. Thin people are now in the minority, yet our culture continues to punish the majority. ...
Our society continues to glorify thinness even though it appears to be less achievable every year. Those of us who are overweight or obese are immediately assumed to be gluttons and/or sloths. (...) From this condemnation, it's a quick jump to the determination that obese people became so due to a behavioral defect."

First, and I know this is going to piss people off, but I think anyone who hasn't been maintaining their weight for any amount of time should reply. Period. They can't possibly understand the struggles of maintenance and regain post surgery. Things are just....different after a couple of years.
I could have written this post. Our stats are very similar, as is our experience. Last spring, after comfortably maintaining for 10 months or so at 144-145, I suddenly started gaining. I wasn't eating differently, but I was busy with work and wasn't exercising like I should. The scale kept creeping up until I got to almost 150. And it seemed to happen in a matter of weeks!
I buckled down and it WOULD NOT COME OFF until I decided to do intermittent fasting, or 5:2 (you can Google it). On my non fast days I would eat 1000 calories of Protein, veggies, and very low carb. I also went back to my normal exercise routine of a little running, stair machine and weights. It took 3 months, but I finally got it off.
After we maintain for a while, our metabolisms change, and ANY change in our routine can cause gain. Then if we don't jump start our metabolisms again, the regain is damn hard to get back off. That's what the intermittent fasting seemed to do is boost my metabolism. I suspect part of your gain is from the new exercise routine, so I wouldn't stress too much about that. Keep that up, track your intake and eat at least 90 grams of Protein, low carb, low sugar, and try the intermittent fasting to get the rest off.
Good luck to you! I'm rooting for you!

I'm going to a say what I ALWAYS say in these threads when a pre op asks the ol' "How much weight did you lose in XX amount of time?":
The answers will vary wildly depending on age, gender, starting weight, activity levels, medications, underlying illnesses, whether you're a revision etc.
The older you are, the slower the losses.
The less you have to lose, the slower your losses.
Men lose much faster than women (and we hate them for it).
Revisions lose slower as a rule.
Obviously someone who is limited with activitiy may lose slower.
That being said, once you're post op, try not to get into the trap of comparison. It is a waste of good energy that can be used elsewhere and is counter productive to your goals. People have a tendency to have VERY unrealistic weight loss expectations with these surgeries for some reason.
My answer? 17 pounds the first month.

Yeah, because paying $500-$12,000 is "easy". Only drinking liquid for 1-4 weeks is "easy". Having 5-6 holes put into you is "easy". Dealing with CO2 gas pain is "easy". Avoiding eating and drinking at the same time is "easy".
These people frustrate me. I saw something like this a few weeks ago from a news reporter who posted something on FB about a guy who lost a bunch of weight, and that he did it the "right" way. Last time I checked, as long as you're making changes to get healthier, it's considered the "right" way.