summerset

Seems to work again, thank you.

You can take a look at several "bariatric vitamins", e. g. Celebrate or FitForMe. There are chewables and pills available and you don't need to take a whole heap of them. They are usually taken two times a day.

I get e-mails regarding new private conversations but my notifications box is broken.

There is something wrong with the notification box since yesterday. I can see I have x notifications but when I click on it, there is only this circle spinning around like it's loading something but it doesn't. The site also seems slower than usual.

@@janedoe92 I always feel sorry when having to read something like post. The waiting period is awful, though I don't like the term "waiting period". It's way more awful than having to wait for something you know that will happen for sure in a few month since it's not simply "waiting for something" after all - you don't know if you will get approval or not. The uncertainty is killing. It sometimes feels like life is on hold. Don't let that happen. I remember my own fight with the insurance company. The tears, the anxiety. Even after I got approved there was this nagging thought of "What if they draw back the approval? It happened to people!" The anxiety did only stop when I finally woke up after surgery.

I have to admit it was a provocation. Why did I do it? It irks me quite a bit that whenever someone (including me) is bothered by the tone or choice of words on this board they get a "it's Rants & Raves!!" - Hey, you yourself told me that I lost sight of where we are right now! There is name calling like bitch, idiot etc. and that doesn't cause a shitstorm - but when someone says the F-word, OMG!!!!!!1 it's so evil!!!!!1 - WTH? So tell me: where is that line that is not supposed to be crossed?? At the moment it seems to be dependent on the user where that line is. Double standards at their best. The best would be to stay out of anything controversial - however, things get nasty pretty quick on these boards, depending on who's involved. Sadly, this is one of the most active WLS boards on the web, otherwise I wouldn't bother with this kind of discussion - I simply would stay away.

I noticed that very early. I didn't tell anybody in particular to do you-know-what. See it as a more general statement: "If you plan on giving me your sarcasm and/or venom, keep it to yourself". When looking at the general tone of numerous posting on here, I'm surprised it's seen as a big deal. People throw around words like "bitch", calling other users "stupid" and "idiots", but this is supposed to be a problem?? What about these big-girl-panties, btw? Are they hiding in the closet now? But maybe what comes at play here is what you said above: everything is alright, unless you disagree with certain people.

Yes, I knew that would cause some disagreement and I'm ok with that but I thought "when in Rome do like the Romans do". Hey, it's "rants and raves", so it's ok - right? But I'm with you - it's not ok to use that kind of language and I apologize for it.

Congratulations! This is really good news! What surgery will you get?

I think there is something in between "cuddling" and "a kick in the ass". I'm neither a cuddling person but I'm also not a fan of this so called "tough love" (which is more often than not simply just plain rude). I'll never understand people who want to be yelled at instead of receiving factual criticism. I just don't get it. --- Not directed at a certain user: As for myself: I don't want to be cuddled but I also don't want a swift kick to my back. Give me factual criticism and keep sarcasm and whatnot to yourself! So if someone holds the opinion that he/she needs to give me some "tough love": Just F*** Off! If you're not able to voice your opinion in a civilized kind of way, just go away. Your "advice" might not be as unique and special as you think and I'm sure there is someone who's able to voice the exactly same advice in a more factual manner.

@@ShelterDog64 Maybe that is the difference, I don't know. There is a lot of talk among the experts if food addiction is even real. I personally think it is. There is a lot of evidence about dopamine pathways etc. and I think there is something addicting to certain foods and while eating too much or eating without appetite has a lot to do with the lack of efficient coping skills (still searching for something that's as powerful as food is, not giving up on that). However, if it would be only the act of eating that serves as a coping skill, raw broccoli and celery would work as good as chocolate and chips (at least for me: nope, they don't).

@@ShelterDog64 That would be nice.

May I ask what you mean with "calcium has been great"? Did you get a DEXA-scan for bone density?

Do you have a link to the original paper they're referring to? I did a quick (means half-hearted) search for papers but couldn't find anything that was able to answer my question. If I learned something regarding articles dealing with medical topics it's this: always look at the original papers! What I'd really like to know is: Does a long-term pre-op education combined with a proper post-op care compared to a rather quick pre-op education combined with a proper post-op care really make a significant difference in the outcome 5 years or more after surgery? There is such a big hype about the pre-op programs, but lets face it: they cost time and money (I can only talk about Germany here). I think my displeasure with the required pre-op programs boils down to this: if they can really teach you something new about nutrition, exercise or coping skills in a 6 months program - you didn't have the proper education in the past and are not eligible for surgery in the first place as you didn't try everything else and failed. If pre-op education is only about what to eat and what to do after surgery (like liquid phase) - you don't need an extended time period for this kind of information. --- ETA: this "tried everything else and failed" is required for getting approval in Germany

I don't think that "harmful eating" has necessarily to do with a lack of education. Yes, some people might actually be too dense to realize the danger of this or are maybe not educated enough (though I somehow have problems imagining this) but I think the reason people are doing this is not being able to resist the call of their addiction. You can educate people about this or that until you're blue in the face - when addiction is calling, it's all futile. I think when talking about "not being educated enough" or "being stupid" we all should remember that we all needed surgery because we weren't able to practice what was preached. All that education about nutrition, coping with cravings etc. was futile in some way or at least not enough. I don't know how to deal with patients who have an addiction as strong as causing them to engage in really harmful eating behaviors in the healing phase. I guess maybe they should not have had surgery in the first place at the current stage of their addiction. However, I feel awkward making a statement like this, it feels too judgmental.

It might be that you increased your exercise load too fast. If that could be the case, step back a little bit and increase time and intensity at a slower pace. It might also be that you're not eating enough calories and/or carbs to fuel your workouts. If you think that's the case, play around a little with your energy intake. When I'm not eating enough, the three hills I have to climb when biking to work become mountains all of a sudden and recovery time between workouts is also increased. It might be that on some days you're simply just too tired. I'm usually too tired/exhausted after a horrible night being on-call, followed by a normal working day and I simply do just a bit of light yoga to relax then and go to bed early.

@@Ginsin007 My usual supps are clocking in at about 60 cals a day (just checked) - I think that's well worth it.

I do, but I don't mind. I don't mind the calories my supplements have. The fact that I don't have to choke down my supplements is well worth a few calories.

If it makes the difference between taking your supplements regularly and not taking them regularly because you have to choke them down every time you have to take them, the answer is: Holy Crap, yes!

My shoulder seems to be better, still not good but better. I still have that pain killer patch on. On sick leave for another week. How are you all doing? Everyone alright?

BMI <30

@Aggiemae Two users disagreed with you about pre-op waiting times and here you are whining about it on another thread. Being a little bit passive-aggressive here, huh? Get over it. *plonk*

@Aggiemae: Obviously you don't have that kind of information. Who would have thought?

Indeed, there is more support now. However, there is also way more post-op support than there ever used to be. In the earlier times of WLS the so called experts thought that it would be enough to perform the surgery and that's that. What changed in Germany over the years was that there is now organized post-op care. Regarding the pre-op requirements. From what I read on the boards it didn't change much. Even 16 years ago you had to prove that you took part in medically supervised programs, therapy and whatnot and that you "did everything else and failed". They now have a fancy name for it "multimodal concept" which includes nutritional counseling and exercise. However, even years and years ago you had to prove that you did these things. What makes a lot of people here focus so much on pre-op support (maybe I'm wrong, please correct me if that is the case) but totally seem to neglect the post-op support? I personally think the post-op support is way more important and I'm not only talking about the first year post-op. I'm talking about several years post-op.

Link to full paper?