summerset

Ummm, no - that's not the way I see it. I asked a question (about calorie intake), good a lot of text as a response but not an answer to my question. And then she got angry - it would have been so easy to tell me "I ate about 3500 cals a day before surgery" without any drama. She chose the drama. *shrug*

You're realizing you're kind or rude here as well, right? If not, I've got news for you: you are, my dear. You can eat all the stuff you want and can cut out all the stuff you want. I don't care. If you want to believe in food magic, do so but stop throwing some wild theories (you would call that "nonsense" I supposed) about "not being able to lose weight because of being malnourished" like it's absolutely impossible to lose weight while being deficient in micronutrients. Of course obese people can be malnourished when it comes to micronutrients, everyone can, including people suffering from anorexia nervosa who obviously don't have any problems losing weight despite being malnourished. You said you ate about 3500 cals before surgery and are now maintaining on 1300-1400 cal - a difference of more than 2000 cals a days - but hey! Math is nonsense! It's all magic!

@Djmohr Out of arguments and getting angry? Why is that? Because I challenged your opinion on the magic of low carb food?

Interestingly enough it is still recommended as an alternativ to NSAIDS after GB. You seem to know your stuff. Why is that?

@@Djmohr You're telling me lots of things in your posts but unfortunately you didn't answer my question: So how many calories did you eat when you ate "all that crap"? Do you know? (most people don't, including me - I have no clue how many calories I ate while gaining weight and being at my highest weight because I only counted calories when being on a diet) You say: Of course you do - you're getting in more calories because you either eat 1) more food (grazing) or 2) more calorie dense food (the crap as you call it) I am also guessing you're not the only one gaining weight when eating more calories.

I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way but I'm going to ask it anyway: Did you ever count calories when eating like this and when you weren't on a diet? Like really counting calories with weighing everything and not only estimating so you can compare the amount of calories with what you're eating now? Just asking because people tend to underestimate the amount of calories they eat quite a lot (even the professionals do!) I think some people are more sensitive to certain foods than others (there is obviously evidence regarding this) so in general I don't think you're a big exception but part of a whole crowd. However, when looking at the diet of some WLS patients it's purely the fact that they're eating less of what they ate before. Especially on this board there is the talk about patients who "can eat all the crap they want" and lose weight effortlessly in the honeymoon period because the "surgery is doing it all". Well, what is the surgery actually doing? It restricts the amount of food that can be eaten, sometimes combined with malabsorption, so it seems that quite a lot of people can eat "crap" and losing weight anyway (someone remember the guy who lost weight on twinkles to prove a thing or two?) without having to rely on the so-called "clean" foods. I'm not saying it's not true for you but I'm not so sure you couldn't maintain your weight on a diet containing different foods if the amount of calories is about the same. I understand that you wouldn't want to experiment with this, though.

I think this is a very important observation. You will most likely always be prone to go back to food in times of stress, more or less. Hopefully less. Maybe you still need some more time to further cement the new coping mechanisms. Hell, even "normal eaters" do rely on food for solace now and then. It's not as pathologic as one might think. Therapy is not the "cure it all" 100% solution. Some might like to sell it as such, but it's not. Look at the success rates of therapies regarding eating disorders and relapse rates. It's just sad. Therapy is certainly useful when it comes to overeating issues but I think its power is overestimated quite a bit sometimes.

I don't think that this is "the sad part". It's not sad being able to eat the foods you like, on the contrary. It's nice to be able to eat the foods you like. What didn't help our situation wasn't "the food" - it was how much we ate of it. I wish I would have known before surgery that there would be almost no food I'm not able to eat. Would have prevented "famine brain" maybe.

It's indeed "famine brain" - the thought of "I will never be able to have this or that" is very powerful.

It's pretty common. I didn't go overboard (means: didn't gain weight) but I ate everything I wanted to eat in the time before surgery.

6 days are nothing. It's not a stall. Your body is now filling up the digestive system again. You also might be retaining some fluids. You also already lost quite a bit of weight which means you need less energy now to sustain your body mass so your weight loss is slower with the same intake.

Paracetamol, Novalgin. If the pain is bad, opioids. You'll not be allowed to take NSAIDS anyway after MGB.

My eyes were always on the big side. They look huge now.

I'm still the one complaining about how "hot it's in here". I'm usually chilly in the late evening and early mornings, in other words: when I'm tired but that didn't get worse so far.

Interestingly enough I make the same experience with the private patients (German healthcare system). Of course most of the patients aren't really this way.

Not really. I had to look that name up though, LOL. Didn't see that movie.

Yes, the center I got revision at doesn't perform them anymore, too, AFAIK. Too many complications in the long run compared with other procedures. I think the problem here might be that you quoted someone from another board, being the messenger whose head is now chopped off.

I'm quite surprised about the (not really sure what to call it) "dynamics" that take place in the WLS community regarding revision surgery, weight regain, or lack of sufficient weight loss, complications etc. - there seems to be a strong urge to blame the patient for everything. Also insisting on programs, education, compliance etc. (not saying insisting on this is wrong, so no discussions about this, please!) while patients going in for e. g. elective coronary bypass don't have to jump through some arbitrary insurance hoops like a drilled seal at the aquarium to get approved for surgery. However, when looking at e. g. patients suffering from PAD (peripheral arterial disease) getting treatment, including angioplasty - there don't seem to be these strong emotions involved I can see in the WLS community, even though patients continue to smoke, don't care about blood pressure or blood sugar levels enough or their lipids. Yeah, doctors might be frustrated sometimes but I have to say, I'm not really when having to perform another angioplasty on the same patient and the patient still hasn't quit smoking. I just do it. I don't really get emotionally involved. So maybe the surgeons performing WLS or WLS revisions don't have these kind of emotions as well. The WLS patients themselves seem to be the ones with the strongest emotions regarding these issues. (At least that's my impression.)

Hummm, but if the revision was made because of GERD or complications and the revision fixed these issues - isn't that a success in itself? Luckily my surgeon (she was the one recommending revision, btw) didn't insist on this after I made up my mind of actually getting the revision - might have been that I would have been admitted as an emergency during this six months period because my band was beginning to erode into the stomach when it was removed. Gastroscopy didn't show it, they only noticed it during the procedure of band removal so in the end I was lucky. I wasn't so fond of revision and between the first consultation and the second one was a time period of six months. I hoped, things might resolve on their own (kind of stupid, I know) because I didn't want to take the risk of two surgeries, even though I gained some weight back after the fill was removed from the band a year before I made the consultation at this center because I still had volume reflux and dysphagia sometimes, though removing the fill helped these issues quite a bit. I'm now back where I was before the fill was removed weight wise, a bit lower maybe. What I'm trying to bring across here is, that it depends on the reason you're getting revision if therapy or nutritional counseling makes sense to try before getting a revision. I agree it makes sense if the reason for revision is weight regain. However, no amount of therapy or nutritional counseling will free you of certain complications. It might even be dangerous to postpone revisions, depending on the reason the revision is taking place. However, in general I think most surgeons are a bit more differentiated in their opinions than it might come across on these boards sometimes.

You're fairly new. Browse these boards a few weeks more and you're gong to have material for a whole season of a 30 min sitcom.

If only I had a dime for everytime I have to deal with ignorant statements... Huh? So there is a failure of the material and it's the patient's fault and "ate his way through first surgery"? Yeah, right... I think that statement is quite ignorant because it ignores the fact that there is revision out of very different reasons, even though weight regain or losing not enough weight might be the more common one. Many revisions are taking place because of severe GERD after GB or sleeve or because of bands eroding into the stomach.

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Sorry, here's the second link: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1856567/

Vitabay and Vitality Nutritionals have a vegan vitamin d3 - Vitabay even has the 20.000 IE high dose capsules.

You might be interested in this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17903771 or https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17903771 Rate of EWL differs quite a lot between the two studies.