GeezerSue

Well, here I am being a double-old-timer! I've been married for just short of 33 years. The committment is stronger than ever...but after the first year or two, it's a different ride. Which is why I chuckled at Susan's refence to how well someone else had been doing at (a whole) six months out. To me, that's like saying, "Look how well their marriage is going, and they've been married six months today!" (Remember, most people also go into the band journey as a "forever" thing.) While that doesn't mean that anyone is going to fail at either their weight loss journey or their marriage, it IS saying that six months out is still a bit early to come to conclusions about what works or what doesn't. I think that at that point, all we can say is, "Well, for me, so far, THIS is what's working...but your mileage may vary." One other thing...I often read about people who are two weeks out thinking they they have lost 20 pounds..forever! Bullshit. They're dehydrated from surgery and insufficient post-op Fluid intake. It happens all the time. And they are probably going to be VERY depressed in a couple of weeks when they start drinking Water and eating food and "regain" all that weight. They didn't lose it...and they didn't regain it. While it doesn't feel "right" taking the wind out of their sails, it MIGHT still be a good idea to mention the possibility of dehydration rather than actual weight loss. First, they might benefit from increasing fluid intake and second, the "letdown" might be less severe...and they might not be tempted to start thinking of themselves as failures...again.

I really DO understand the desire to hold on to the band--whether one is at goal and wants to stay there or wants to give it "one more try." I waited two years to have mine removed. But once someone's band starts hurting them or setting them up for permanent damage or keeps them from having a normal life, IMHO it really is time to stop trying to help them "work with it" and start trying to help them deal with choosing a life-after-banding option. It's only natural to want to help people succeed with the path they have chosen...especially if the approach we are using is working for us...but sometimes it's even wiser to HEAR them when they say it isn't working or it is scaring them. This site is the most notoriously supportive of both pre-banded and un-banded people I think exists. I hope we keep up the good work!

"Being pressured" or being "wisely warned?"

Another band-to-DS'er here ever-so-slightly tweaking some definitions. The RnY is a primarily restrictive but somewhat malabsorptive procedure. The DS is a primarily malabsorptive but somewhat restrictive procedure. They both "bypass" stuff, but they work very differently. (The band, of course, is purely restrictive.) However, while the band and RnY people DO have to make more "intelligent" food choices...what constitutes intelligent for the DS person is changed, right along with the anatomy. For example, EVERY MORNING, I eat an egg (sometimes two), and some cheese (usually in an omelette, but if not, I melt it on the toast), and bacon or ham, and toast with Peanut Butter or cheese (on non-omelette days.) My cholesterol is 119, my triglicerides are 117, my HDL is 64, my LDL is 32, and my VLDL is 23. (And all my other stuff is pretty good, too.) The REALLY intelligent choices that Rachele and I have to make involve taking our supplements and not going ape-shit on carbs. (And shit is the appropriate word, given what MOST DSer's bowels DO with a carb overdose.) And, in an attempt to not blame the victims, some DS people make all the right choices and STILL have deficiencies. But a few. Just like a few banded people have stomach necrosis, where the band kills the stomach. Back to the topic...if you had/are thinking about wls without knowing all about what the various procedures are then you CAN NOT HAVE MADE AN INTELLIGENT CHOICE ABOUT WHICH IS RIGHT FOR YOU. Even if you do know, it can be a crap-shoot...but at least you can hit the ground running when you find yourself in difficulty. So anyone who had RnY because Carnie did--or the band because Sharon Osborne did--had better be someone with outrageously good luck. Back to the topic at hand... Vanhos, given your history and the choices available, the band may be your only option other than dieting. And, if the band is not causing you any problems, then it would seem worth it to regroup and try again. If you ARE having complication, your next step would be a REALLY experienced DS guy...one who has done revisons from band and RnY--or flying solo. good luck to you!

Thank you, thank you! I didn't want you--or anyone--to think I was "advertising" for the DS. This surgery really IS a worrisome thing, for me, because it has had such negative press. I have an idea of what can go wrong. So I HAVE been religious about the supplements. (I might as well be religious about SOMETHING.) I try to convince myself that one reason that so many surgeons don't like to do this surgery is that patient compliance isn't what it should be and that invites disasterous complications. And I know of peope who have had obstructions or hernias farther out than I am...so I'm not done obsessing. (And even if I were, I'd find something else to obsess about.) And then the whole back problem thing...I've had two steroid injections and I'm on Prednisone for 12 days...can we say "hungry," boys and girls? Can we say "eat everything that isn't tied down?" I hate needing this drug. I was once on it for MONTHS...mycoplasma pneumonia...and gained 40 pounds! Oh well, I see my DS surgeon for my six-month check-up on Tuesday. At least now I can handle being in the car several hours in each direction!

Do I get to play, or is the revision surgery "cheating?" Remember, I went up to my pre-banding weight PLUS three pounds when I went for the revision...so I was starting at the top...again. My BMI was 49-ish...it's now 35-ish. My weight loss has been stalled for a couple of weeks (couldn't move, on pain killers and/or steriod inections), and I'm probably going to experience a slight gain...as I'm starting (f'ing) Prednisone tomorrow for a back injury. When stressing about my mother and my back, I did the only normal thing...for me. I ate all of the chocolate in my zipcode. I knew it made no sense when I bought it and made LESS sense when I ate it, but--at those moments--I apparently trusted the chocolate more than I trusted reason or logic, to solve my problems. I have learned NOTHING from being banded. I think I made the right decision in going with malabsorption. And I got my 6-month labs back today. Penni--and other medical types--if there's anything I'm supposed to worry here about will you let me know? I've been really anxious about these! * = near either end of the "Reference Values" ** = outside the "Reference Values" ~~HEMATOPATHOLOGY WBC--7.6--(REFERENCE 4.3-10.0) HGB--12.0--(REFERENCE 11.5-15.0) HCT--35.6--(REFERENCE 35.0-47.0) *MCV--80--(REFERENCE 80-99) RBC--4.45--(REFERENCE 3.90-5.20) *MCH--27--(REFERENCE 27-34) MCHC--33.8--(REFERENCE 32.-36.0) **RDW--15.6--(REFERENCE 0.0--15.5) PLATELET--416--(REFERENCE150-450) **TRANSFERRIN--397--(REFERENCE 200-360) IRON--49--(REFERENCE 37-145) Vitamin B-12--804--(REFERENCE 211-911) FOLATE-- >20.0 ~~COAGULATION APTT--34.9--(REFERENCE 24.0-36.0) PROTIME PT--14.3--(10.0-15.7) INR--1.06--(REFERENCE 0.70-1.19) ~~URINALYSIS WAS FINE ~~CHEMICAL PATHOLOGY GLUCOSE--93--(REFERENCE 65-99) NA--138--(REFERENCE136-147) K--4.1--(REFERENCE 3.5-5.5) CL--104--(REFERENCE 96-108) CO2--25--(REFERENCE 22-29) ANION GAP--9--(REFERENCE 5-14) BUN--10--(REFERENCE 6-20) CREA--0.5--(REFERENCE 0.4-1.1) UREA/CREA--20--(REFERENCE 10-22) OSMO CALC--274--(REFERENCE 268-292) TOT PROTEIN--6.7--(REFERENCE 6.3-8.3) ALBUMIN--4.3--(REFERENCE 3.6-5.0) *GLOBULIN--2.4--(REFERENCE 2.4-4.4) A/G RATIO--1.8--(REFERENCE 0.7-2.5) FERRITIN--19--(REFERENCE 15-417) ~~PROTEIN ANALYSIS *PREALBUMIN--20.4--(REFERENCE 20.0-40.0) ~~CARDIAC RISK INDICATORS TRIG--117--(REFERENCE 0-149) CHOL--119--(REFERENCE 0-199) HDL CHOL--64 CHOL/HDL-- 1.9 LDL CALC--32--(REFERENCE 0-99) VLDL CALC--23 (REFERENCE 0-30) ~~THYROID FUNCTION T3U--36--(REFERENCE 24-37) HS/TSH--1.04--(REFERENCE 0.35-5.50) FREE T4--1.2--(REFERENCE 0.8-1.Cool PTH INTACT--48--(REFERENCE 14-72) ~~MISCELLANEOUS TESTS Vitamin A @--0.37--(REFERENCE 0.30-1.20) RET PALM @--0.02--(REFERENCE 0.00-0.10) VIT A INTERP @--NORMAL **VIT D, 25 OH @--15--(REFERENCE 20-57) VITAMIN B6, PLASMA--PENDING My PCP says I need a little sunshine and an occasional Protein drink as my prealbumin is at the low end of normal. Is there anything else I should be concerned about? Thanks, Sue

A couple of things, the first may be nitpicky. I didn't "lose" my band; I "got rid of it." And it wasn't a surprise for me either...I was a notion I'd been harboring for months...maybe even a year or so, I don't know for sure. Anyway, because it wasn't a surprise and I had plenty of time to think about it, I was DELIGHTED to get rid of something that was making my life miserable. That's an important distinction only because I didn't have to waste any time mourning about not having the band anymore. And, one of the things MOST of us do when we're in mourning is eat like there is no tomorrow. So, for those of you still mourning...a novel I recently read mentioned that grief is like a huge wave behind the boat you're piloting. If you don't keep moving forward, that wave can overtake and drown you. But if you DO keep moving, the waves generally become smaller and less threatening. Your only defense is to NOT stop. ~~~ Then, Penni, and others who us who are in that place, I have a book here called '"It's Not About food," that was written for women with under- and over-eating issues. One of the first things they ask us to do is to just PAY ATTENTION to our eating...NOT to try to change anything about it, just to PAY ATTENTION to when we eat and what we eat and to STOP being judgmental and to become observant. And then later, they ask us to ask ourselves questions about our eating. So, eat lunch with John and go home and think about what to eat next but DO NOT judge that behavior as "sick." That book also tells us that our relationship with food is NOT a sign of weakness, but a sign of strength. At some point you developed that behavior to get through something bad. And it WORKED! But now, that bad thing is gone and you need to go through a process to learn that nothing bad will happen if you stop using that technique. ~~~ My mom is driving me nuts. She deserves her own thread and I may post it, but right now, the issue seems to be that I seem to think that chocolate is going to cure something. I have had the DS surgery and 80% of the fat I eat and 20% of the carbs I eat don't even "register" in my body. IN SPITE OF THAT HELP, the combination of a sedentary existence (because of a back injury related to this), and sleeping all day thanks to the pain meds I'm taking for this, and being able to do nothing but get horizontal in a place I know I can't get up from or sit at this keyboard all day, and the water-retention from all the salty prepared and delivered meals we've been eating...I have managed to slow or even "stall" my weight loss. Now I know that if I want to change that, I can cut down on the carbs (and salt) and I'll lose a ton of weight in no time. But right now, the bags--yes...I'm back to BAGS--of chocolate candy (and probably the 21 ounce can of Deluxe Mixed Nuts, too) seem more essential to my psyche than the continued weight loss. So, I keep telling me I'm not "bad" or "sick" or anything other than "currently in need of chocolate/nut therapy" and that this time will pass. I can only trust that it will and that MY wls-tool will get me goiing again. Hugs to all... Sue

Ok...not to be a downer, but just so you know. I had the panniculectomy (apron removal) along with the rectus muscle repair (tummy tuck part) about a year and a half ago. I was MO at the time. Surgery went well, but I developed an infection that would NOT resolve and about about a week post-op was readmitted to the hospital for ANOTHER TEN DAYS of IV antibiotic therapy. THEN it resolved. However...it was a teaching hospital. And the supervising PS (from UC Irvine in California) was having a discussion with the "fellow" (he had finished his internship and residency) who actually performed my surgery. It went something like: Supervisor: So, Kev. Do you know the complication rate on an abdominoplasty (essentially what I had) on a morbidly obese patient? Fellow: Uh...75%? Supervisor: No. 100%. If you perform an abdominoplasty on a morbidly obese patient there WILL BE a complication. Me: You guys might have MENTIONED this in advance. Fellow: Now that I know, I WILL mention it in advance. Want another tummy tuck? So, I do NOT want to rain on your parade and I have had surgery in Monterrey and I LOVED my surgeon and the hospital was great and all that...and those are US stats, not Mexican stats...but, just so you know that it is apparently NOT as simple before we lose the weight. That said, Dr. Fobi (of the "Fobi Pouch") routinely performs the panniculectomy at the time of the bypass procedure and I have a friend who went to him and had it done with him and I don't recall what--if any--complications SHE had. Good luck...and it IS easier to move without that mess. And I will need it tweaked when I finish with my DS-related weight loss, but I don't care. Sue

Just PM me when you're in the mood, Cindy. I'm in CA and my surgeon was Ara Keshishian in Delano, CA.

Is this for me? I don't recommend ANY surgery for anyone else! I had the band and developed complications. The majority of people do NOT have that problem. So that's a plus...for most people. And the surgery itself is safer and the recovery is a piece of cake for most people. But I hated the eating restrictions--many of which were undoubtedly caused by my complications--and I felt "deprived" or like I was "missing out on something." (Well, I was...I was missing out on chewing and eating stuff like salads.) I knew I'd have those issues with the RnY eating restrictions, too. I'm MORE delighted with the surgery I just had...the DS. But it is HUGE step and it isn't for everyone. You can't have the RnY or DS and then go back and only get the band...because you are already rearranged. You can do it the other way. Just study ALL of the offerings. Be brutally honest with yourself. When you read about problems that DS or RnY or banded people are having, do you pretend that those could never happen to you? Are you harboring the notion that you will lose 100% of your excess weight, keep it off with no problem, never have issues getting the right amount of saline in the band, be able to eat exactly what you eat now but in smaller quantities? If so, you may be disappointed with the band. But if you have a realistic view of what to expect INCLUDING KNOWING THAT IT DOESN'T WORK FOR EVERYONE AND IT IS NOT "ALWAYS ADJUSTABLE," AND THAT SOMETIMES, REAL WISDOM IS KNOWING WHEN TO CUT YOUR LOSSES AND MOVE ON, then you're off to a good start.

The way I read your post is that you are underweight, can't eat a healthy diet and the band is making you sick. OF COURSE, you want it out! I had mine out, but not under those circumstances. I wish I could help beyond saying that I certainly understand your concern and hope it all goes smoothly.

Comment about comparing LapBand to RnY: For those who were not at or near goal two years post-op, the RnY person usually lost and regained and the LapBand person never lost much...and they both ended up at the same place. For those who were at or near goal two years post-op, the RnY person had 18-24 months "free time" but then had to learn how to MAINTAIN that loss. The LapBand person had to learn from the beginning or the loss would not have happened. In both cases it's about learning...it's the sequence that varies. From what I understand, the DS is less about learning because there is more malabsorption, which is why I went to that. You CAN regain after losing with the DS...I know of people who have. But the malabsorption (and related problems) are ongoing, so the learning SEEMS TO BE more about eating Protein first and taking supplements galore!

For the record, I didn't set out to become MO again. I lost about 50 pounds in six or eight months after banding surgery (I had lost weight prior to deciding to have surgery), and regained most of it over the next two years.

I don't think anyone here has been in that situation. I know that I had regained sufficient weight that I was MO when I had the DS.

Be VERY careful with what you take for constipation when you have a band: 1: Obes Surg. 2004 Aug;14(7):1022-4. Bolus obstruction of pouch outlet by a granular bulk laxative after gastric banding. Herrle F, Peters T, Lang C, von Fluee M, Kern B, Peterli R. Department of Surgery, St. Claraspital, Basel, Switzerland. BACKGROUND: Constipation is an occasional problem after gastric banding and is often caused by insufficient liquid intake. As a result, the use of laxatives is widespread in such patients. Depending on the laxative, improper use can lead to bolus obstruction above the band, as occurred in this case. Case Report: A 59-year-old female with uncomplicated laparoscopic adjustable gastric banding presented 2 months after surgery with food and liquid intolerance and dysphagia after ingestion of a granular bulking laxative. Despite deflating the band, the bolus could not be washed out. Endoscopic extraction was required, revealing a 4x2 cm bolus of the laxative and a small compression ulcer. DISCUSSION: Patients not complying with nutritional recommendations after gastric banding may have insufficient liquid intake and, consequently, constipation. Under these conditions, the use of a granular bulking laxative entails the risk of esophageal obstruction above the band. CONCLUSION: Nutritional counseling after gastric banding should include the recommendation of liquid intake of at least 1.5 l/day. If constipation occurs, osmotic or paraffin oil laxatives should be used instead of bulking laxatives. Publication Types: * Case Reports PMID: 15329197 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] And drink MORE water! Everyone!

There is no such current information and it would be subjective anyway...because some people faint from the pain of a flu shot and others can endure horrific trauma. Generally speaking, if you consider the results shared by the overall group of people who have had the band, you can expect to lose around 62% of your excess weight. What that REALLY means is that some people lose ALL of their excess weight and some lose NONE of their excess weight. And most people lose in between. Also, there are "happy banded people" who are morbidly obese. I know of someone who weighed close to 400 pounds who is DELIGHTED with the band even though she still weighs in excess of 250 and is still MO. But, no matter how much she has lost, all the obesity-related stuff that was killing her before her band is still doing its thing...maybe just slower...and in spite of HER happiness, she would be considered a failure by many because she is still MO. Others would say that because she has lost half of her excess weight, she is a success. Go figure. Learn about all the options and pick the one that is best for YOU!

I just ate Breakfast. A (one egg) ham and cheese omelette, toast with butter and Peanut Butter and two cups of coffee with half-and-half. (OKAY! I confess! I had a little sugar in the coffee, too. Should probably NOT have done that. But there will be no "dumping," as a RnY person might have.) And (LOL) I have an 82-year-old mother who called me this morning to discuss her diarrhea so I know my bowels are working better than hers are. My poop looks very different and it DOES stink. And I have probably three BM's every morning before I get in the shower and start my day. No doubt about it, it's different. But I do NOT poop all day and strangers sit next to me in waiting rooms and restaurants, and the bra-fitter at Nordstom's didn't rush out of the room, so...? (And I have an impaired sense of smell, so it's a real psychological issue for me because most of the time I don't KNOW if it's smelly in my bathroom.) To tell you the truth, that rumor is one of the reasons we (my husband and I) moved to a two-bathroom condo last June. But there ARE ways to deal with that issue. If I avoid wheat flour and too much baked potato with butter and sour cream, I have more socially acceptable (?) poop. There is a product called Devrom (a pill) that ostomy patients use which is called an "internal deodorant." I have some, but--again--I don't detect much smell, so I haven't used it. I installed a little bidet attachment (< $100), called Biffy ( http://biffy.com/ ) to keep clean while using the toilet, and I stocked up on Oust! and Ozium. I choose the DS for a couple of reasons. I'm older. VERY long term issues don't concern me the way they might concern a younger woman. (I'm not asking myself how this will impact my health 50 years from now.) I had been in touch with band, RnY and DS patients for over three years, and I knew that I did not respond well to all of the restrictions required by the band and would likely get crazier with RnY restrictions. I figured I'd take up compulsive drinking or gambling or even complusive origami..I dunno. And, I wanted a procedure that let me eat what I want to eat. With the band, one "wrong" bite could send me to the restaurant's restroom or parking lot with sliming or barfing or whatever. My RnY friends wait until other people order something and then taste it to see if it's too sweet for them and might cause a dumping episode. My DS friends pretty much eat what they want, but sometimes say stuff like, "Wanna split a ___? If I eat the whole thing I'll be sorry tomorrow!" And...I needed rapid weight loss. My knees were acting up. My orthopedic surgeon wanted me to limit walking and avoid treadmills, stairs and low chairs until I lost a significant amount of weight. And he told me that every step I took with the excess weight on my frame was a step toward a knee surgery that was only about 60% successful. My PCP read up on DS and liked it better than RnY. My cardiologist was excited about it and wants me to keep him informed so that he can tell other patients how I'm doing. My husband THANKS ME for not giving up when the band had to come out and for giving him his old playmate back! I am 5.5 months post-op. I weigh twenty pounds less than I did at my lowest post-banding weight and figure I have the opportunity to lose more. I had the same hair loss issues--only more so--that I did post banding and post PS...but I think that's slowing down. My nails (says my manicurist) are thinner toward the cuticle. I don't know if that's from the malabsorption immediately post op (I lost 54 pounds in two months) and is already correcting itself or if I have a problem I need to supplement. I'll find out in two weeks at my six-month check-up. I think I covered it all. (Except to mention that if Rachele can work on an assembly line, she must not be having major bowel issues either.)

Penni-- We are all so different yet so much the same!!! I subscribe to the "the-best-predictor-of-future-performance-is-past-performance" school of decision-making. So, while I wouldn't have gone back to retry something that had hurt me in the past, I WAS up for trying something else. But, you are a health care professional and have seen more than I have. So, although we are dealing with the same stats about the various choices, we are not dealing with the same experiences. You'll figure out what is best for YOU. My sister--whose comment when I got the band, over three-and-a-half years ago,was "Well I haven't given up yet"--is convinced that the ten or fifteen pounds she regained "over the holidays," (meaning six months ago, now) can be lost again along with the additional 80 or so pounds she needs to lose by ordering and eating NutriSystem food and going to Curves and Weight Watchers. I know the odds of her doing that and then KEEPING IT OFF are stacked against her...but that is not how she perceives the situation and I couldn't change HER perceptions if I tried. Meanwhile, she'll never convince me that my having wls twice is somehow "giving up." I know there are those--probably a LOT of them here--who believe that the DS is pretty much suicide. But for ME, at my age, with my history of weight loss "successes," NOT going for something else when the band had to come out was just not an option. I was not going to even be ambulatory if I didn't do something. And I knew that I couldn't handle a new set of dietary restrictions as required by the RnY. That didn't leave many other choices for me. But again, just as you haven't been as old and as almost non-ambulatory as I have been, I haven't seen what you have seen. One day, you will just know. Our conclusions may not be the same...but we're fighting the same battle and aiming for the same goals and we're intelligent women (except for the food issues, of course) each of whom will find what is right for her. Sue

Most all of the band removals you'll read about have been due to complications of one kind or another.

DeeDee, Dr. Gary Anthone is in Omaha and is a VERY HIGHLY RESPECTED bariatric surgeon. He doesn't do the RnY surgery as far as I know. He does the DS, which is the surgery that Rachele and I "revised to." http://www.bestcare.org/site.asp?dept=A1CFD15A73F7473987179AE161A3C086 Sue

Are you having complications or was it just the wrong surgery choice for you? Are you thinking about a revision to another surgery?

In the past two weeks, my mother has ended up in the ER three times, was admitted to the acute care hospital once (blood sugar was 34), and was admitted to and discharged from the convalescent hospital in the time it took me to go home, change into my jammies, exhale whining and eat the 3-cup Reese's I got from the hospital vending machine. Therefore, I have NO idea what this thread is about but I still feel vaguely guilty. (Catholic school in the 1950's and all.) Will someone who has stayed abreast of this entire mess please pm me and fill me in on all the dirt, because for crap's sake, I need a laugh. (Also, if I'm on one side or the other of some argument, will someone please provide a synopsis of the issue and tell me which side I'm on?) Thank you for your understanding and I'm very sorry...about something...I think.

I had the band for three years and was REALLY hungry most of the time. A lot of that hunger was because I had trouble eating decent meals. But, no. The band did not make hunger disappear FOR ME.

My removal was open and done as part of the DS surgery. The DS can take three hours or more, but my entire revision surgery was less than two hours.

I hope you find a way to get where you need to be. Once I knew my band was on its way out, I REALLY wanted it out. And I'm glad I was revised to DS...but we're all different. So, I hope you get what YOU need.