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WLS Veteran's Forum

If you’re at least 18 months post-op, this space is for you. Connect with other long-term WLS veterans to talk maintenance, regain, life after the honeymoon phase, or just catch up with familiar faces.

  1. Started by Redmaxx,

    So last month (7 Sept 2018) I had an emergency surgery because I had a blocked bowel. It happens (not sure how it took almost two years after my gastric bypass, but), not to everyone, but it happened to me. So they took me to one hospital ER that was close by my work. It took them an hour to get me into a bed and they finally took me to get a CT Scan. It took two hours to get any type of information from the CT Scan and I was told that I "may possibly" have a blocked bowel. They needed to consult with a surgeon. About an hour later they came back and said that I had a blocked bowel but that the hospital I was at didn't do any type of bariatric surgery. So they said they w…

  2. Hello all, I haven't been around for a long ole time and thought I would drop by. My sleeve will be 7 years old in July. Over the last year, I - like so many others it would appear - have started to regain; it is 14lbs at the moment. I can honestly say it isn't by eating crap food all day everyday. My diet is 85% clean and 15% rubbish. After being sleeved I turned into a food 'snob' and still don't eat a lot of processed foods and junk. Obviously I am not perfect either! One thing that has really changed though is my exercise habits. I went from being really active and strong to not doing a lot. The only real exercise I do now is walking, which a…

  3. Started by oladad,

    Well, I've not been on here in a while but I need to see if anyone has been through this before. I just celebrated my 5th year with my lapband and my bananniversary was on Nov.8th 2018. On Nov.9th they Emptied my Band due to a Upper GI infection which cause my ban to be Inflamed causing me problems With even trying to drink water. December 21st 2018 will be my 1st fill To which I will have to start all over again to find my green zone. It's been a while since I've had to deal with the hunger pains and I know some of it is head hunger , But nevertheless It's still Hunger I'm feeling. If you have been through this And would like to offer some encouragement, advise …

  4. Started by mi75,

    After reading a thread in another forum here, I thought I'd check in and see HOW everyone eats 2+ years post op!! I am 4.5 years post op and currently doing nutritional ketosis but seriously thinking about switching to a more 'bariatric' style eating with higher protein, lower fat and a few more starchy things (like some beans or a bit of squash) every now and again... I have also FINALLY embraced the need to move and get active so have started doing some muscle building. But, in the meantime i'm curious- how are YOU eating these days? Regular diet? Keto? Paleo? Bariatric/low carb? Diabetic diet? Cal controlled? Give your 2 cents!!

  5. Started by mi75,

    Vets- I have been following Keto for about 9 months, lost about 48 lbs. Feeling good. I hate the word 'diet' but want your opinions: I'm thinking about changing it up and going completely back to a post-bariatric type eating- low carb and higher protein. I've been tweaking my diet a bit but don't want to screw myself up. I have 10 lbs that I need to lose before some medical testing in about 4 weeks and wondering if going back to low carb/high protein vs Keto would be more successful (by successful I purely mean burn off some fat)?? thoughts?

  6. Started by Julie norton,

    Please... I just want one thread that has good things to say about lapbands... There are many horror stories on other posts. Just not here please. I’m happy 11 years later.... lost about 90 lbs. kept off 70... I need my tool. Emptied, I put on 25 and didn’t change too many habits. I’m back with fills and life goes merrily along!!

  7. WHOOP WHOOP!!! 4 years post op, I am finally getting the scale to move again and my regain is officially gone. I was doing some Keto type eating, but now I'm trying to cut back the fat so it's more like a 'bariatric' type eating, just a low carb, high protein thing. I had been losing nicely for a long time then the scale completely stopped. What I THINK was happening is that my body had adjusted to ketosis and I was probably taking in a little too much dietary fat so I wasn't burning my own fat. Now that I've tweaked it my regain has dropped off and I'm back 'on the move'!!!! Hoping for a good 7-10 lb loss over the next month before I have some medical t…

    • 1 reply
    • 1.2k views
  8. Hellooo! I'm coming up on 5 years...omigosh! I cannot believe I just wrote that. I have just struggled and struggled since the beginning. I hit my low weight about 1 year post op (after fighting 7 months for the final 4# to get there haha) and then it seems i've just gone back the other way. Every year it's another 14-20lbs back on. My surgeon gave up on me and basically said that I need to accept that this is how my body is, and that I can call him when I'm ready for a revision of my failed sleeve. :\ I'm not ready to accept that I can't lose weight on my own. Normal people do it every day without surgery, and plenty do it successfully WITH surgery, so there's nothing sp…

    • 12 replies
    • 3.5k views
  9. I am 27 months out and am still surprised at how people don't get it. Some people have asked me what I do and how I eat because they want to loose weight also. Well of course I can relate and I want to help. But I know that sharing what and how I eat is probably not going to help them, because they are missing the SURGERY part of it along with 2.5 years of vigorous research and help from a Bariatric Registered Dietitian who I still see. I preface everything by telling them that the surgery was a game changer and I could not have done it without surgery and that I still see my Dietitian. But they go right past that part. Like it is inconsequential while the truth is…

  10. I am 6 years post conversion from band to sleeve. I lost over 150# post sleeve and am currently dealing with a partial regain. I had also gotten out of the habit of regular intense exercise (I have remained walking etc. but gave up the higher intensity stuff I used to do). I have tried all year to use the various maintenance strategies I had learned, but I could not sustain it. A month ago, I joined a "small group personal training" gym that has a whole new approach. They are all about reducing bodyfat percentage and firing up the metabolism. The workouts are all HIIT, and short duration. The food plan is actually too much food (I had to have them modify it for me) b…

    • 9 replies
    • 3.3k views
  11. I started seeing a new therapist to continue to work on my eating issues. I really enjoy working with her and think she has a lot of great insight. She asked why I focus my meals on high protein/low carb. I told her that the high protein helps the body to heal after surgery and my small stomach doesn't have room for much else, so getting some vitamins through veggies is next and if I am still hungry then to have some healthy carb. She said that if I had surgery almost 3 years ago, isn't my body healed? And if so, why do I continue to eat the high protein, low carb? Other than this type of eating leads to weight loss/helps to maintain weight loss, is there any other r…

  12. Started by Debbieduck4,

    Hi All, Just wanted to check in... I haven't been on Bariatric Pal for quite some time! This site was my go-to place for information and support right after my surgery, and then I tried to pay it forward for a year or so after that, but I haven't come here to see what's happening lately. Anyways, I've done pretty well... Maintained my weight loss (101 lbs) until in the last 4 months when I have gained 10 pounds without changing much in my diet (An extra trip or two to Starbucks probably) :/ I think maybe it has to do with my activity level. I took a new job that has me sitting A LOT more. I need to get back on track before things get out of hand. Thinking of doing th…

    • 16 replies
    • 4.1k views
  13. Started by Andrew0929,

    Hi All, Just went to my annual appointment with surgeon and realized I’ve not checked in here in quite some time. I’m now holding at 10 pounds above My lowest weight, which has been the case for several years. However, During the winter I gained 6 pounds and attributed this to increased snacking on cereal. Then, I got the flu and lost 10 pounds. Interestingly, after getting better I decided to stop the cereal snacking and have ended up back at the same weight I’ve been at for about 3 years. Hoping to continue maintaining at this level. Still weighing and logging... Regards, Andrew

    • 4 replies
    • 1.7k views
  14. Hey All, It has almost been 3 years since my sleeve surgery. I am curious how many of you go to your bariatric annual appointments? I am going this year to ensure my bloodwork is still good. Please share if you still go, how may years out you are and why you still go/don't go. Thanks! Patricia

    • 6 replies
    • 1.7k views
  15. Just looking for your experience/perspective. After maintaining your weight, do you feel like a WLS patient years out? Has Anything besides the fear of gaining and keeping weight maintained come to your attention?

  16. Started by beachwalker4rny,

    I am a little over 2 years out from RNY and thinking about skin removal. Someone mentioned going out of the country for plastics. Is it cheaper?

    • 8 replies
    • 2.4k views
  17. Started by sjac,

    I am coming up on a year and a half post op. I have lost over 120 lbs but in the last week or two I feel like I’m slipping into old habits. I have gained 6 lbs in the last 2 weeks and I do not want to go back to my old habits. Still exercising 4-5 times a week but eating poorly. I still want to lose another 15-20 lbs any suggestions on how to get back on eating right? thanks for the help

    • 3 replies
    • 1.2k views
  18. Started by tfarr,

    I’m trying to find a top that will give me the lift and support like no other lol I got a few from Hapari, although nice, not enough lift. My breast’s went from a 44 DD to a tiny 36C. I feel deflated and want something to help my self esteem this summer. Any ideas? Thank you[emoji173]️

    • 1 reply
    • 1.3k views
  19. Started by mi75,

    After 5 months of strict Keto I'm feeling good, have lost all but 7 lbs of regain and restored my overall health. However, at the appointment with my surgeon last fall, he told me if the GERD still persists after weight loss, my only option is revision to RNY. I'm feeling focused and still have another 4 months before I see him again, but I'm still taking a PPI twice a day. I've had an EGD which shows persistent reflux, however no Barrett's or significant scarring right now. I've had GERD almost my entire life due to the way I carry my weight, in fact I had an upper GI series as a baby from such severe reflux! I've been on a PPI for about 15 years and really want to…

  20. Help me understand. I am 5 yrs out from sleeve surgery. There has never been a time I was able to overeat to a large extent, I feel very near the same restriction as about 6 months after surgery. I can eat more sweets than real food but even so there is a limit I cannot cross. I see people taking about feeling no restriction and saying their sleeve has stretched and they have gained a lot of weight - a lot being more than 20-30 lbs. On occasion I have gained a few pounds. Most notably gaining 12 lbs this past summer due to my consumption of coffee milk shakes from Whataburger. The scales hit 12 lbs over what I was comfortable with, I said to myself ' stop this…

    • 20 replies
    • 4.9k views
  21. I’m 3.5 yrs post op, pretty much maintaining my goal weight and having the strangest swings in my taste buds and all of a sudden I’m sensitive to texture. I’ve loved my lean protein and now I can barley choke down chicken, shrimp, lobster, most fish. It makes getting my protein in really tough. Recent labs show my iron is low so I’ve just started on an iron supplement. Could that have caused this and will it stop when my iron goes back to normal? Has this happened to any of you? Any first hand experience/advice would be appreciated.

  22. Started by tfarr,

    Hello everyone [emoji173]️ I had the sleeve done 12/2/14. I lost around 80-85lbs. I’ve been having GERD since I’d say, 6mo. PO. That being said. Two nights ago before I went to bed I had a strange chest discomfort. Cr there’s right in the middle. I thought nothing of it and went to bed. I woke up with an even worse chest pain and my neck started to cramp and I felt light headed. I was like “ Holy ****, I might be having a heart attack!” So I went to the ER. EKG fine, cardiac labs fine, chest X-ray fine, vitals good and bp 124/66. Every thing fine. I told the Er doc about my health history and past surgeries. He offered Nitro, I was like, “ isn’t that gonna bottom me o…

    • 6 replies
    • 1.6k views
  23. hey guys! I'm a little shy of 2 years from my gastric sleeve surgery. I've pretty much maintained the wait I've lost for the most part (maybe i'm up 4 or 5 lbs) Recently to be honest I haven't been great at tracking my macros or my water.... probably the reason I'm up a few pounds. I had reintroduced more processed foods into my diet, and although I haven't gained thaaat much back, I decided enough was enough and I'm gonna start tracking again, decreasing carb intake, and focusing on Protein, just like we were supposed to do! lol! I'm already down a couple of pounds. I was just wondering what other sleevers experience a few years after their sur…

    • 6 replies
    • 2.5k views
  24. Started by ProudGrammy,

    [

    • 0 replies
    • 1.5k views
  25. Hi all, I haven’t been around here in a while but I’m working on a reset and wanted to check in. I’ll be 4 years out in a few weeks. I had RNY gastric bypass. I initially lost 125lbs and have slowly gained back around 20lb, it fluctuates a little. Some of that is definitely fat, I’m not always vigilant about my diet but I also weight train a few days a week and have added on some muscle mass. I had a bike wreck last summer which resulted in a broken hand, dislocated knuckles, and pretty severe scrapes and bruises. It could have been much worse, but it did put me on my butt for a few months. I get most of my exercise in the summer by riding. I put put on about 15 pounds…

  26. Started by IveGotThePower,

    I am 20 months out and have lost 93 lbs. I fluctuate 2 to 3 lbs above that. Today I was exactly 93 lbs again, but for the past 10 months I NEVER go below that. It feels like my brain controls my hunger to keep me at this set point. And maybe it does. Has anyone got to a stable point above their "goal weight" and just said, ok this is where my body seems to be happy. This seems to be a sustainable point where I am going to be. And just accept that and continue to make healthy choices and stop trying to loose more weight, cause it just doesn't seem to be in the stars. Don't get me wrong. I am thrilled with my weight loss and very thankful and comfortable where I am. …

    • 5 replies
    • 1.6k views
  27. I am 20 months out from VSG. Lost 93 total lbs in the first 10 months. I maintained very healthy eating habits, but the volume I can eat certainly increased. Maintained within 3 to 4 lbs over that 2nd 10 months, but never went past that 93 lb mark. I never measured or really counted anything. I do eat high quality protein and veggies at every meal and do very low sugar and carbs. Although after 20 months I started slowly adding Ezekial bread and cereal and oats and quinoa to see how that affects my body. No change after 2 to 3 weeks as of yet. I have read and was told by my NUT, who I still see, that a person who loses weight must then continue to eat fewer calories…

  28. I am curious to know the story of anyone that had RNY who took more than 3 years to reach goal. I will be three years out in March, my lowest weight was 211.6 (for approximately 37 seconds that I was on the scale that day) I hovered around 216 from 8 - 12 months after surgery. Then life happened and things that caused depression crept back into my world. I gained 17 pounds back in a very short time and have been struggling to get them off, keep them off and continue my journey to goal. I am having the most difficult time finding peers that I can relate to. I'd love to know that there are others that struggled for more than a year at their midway point of weight loss then …

    • 2 replies
    • 1.5k views
  29. WHEN THE BASICS DON'T WORK ANY MORE WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO GET THE WEIGHT BACK DOWN? (Please don't post Going back to basics, TDEE method or the pouch reset . I have tried them all) NO...I'm not eating off plan and YES I exercise 2 hours five days a week like a beast. i have battle the same 15 pounds up and down for a year. Weight loss is painfully slow. ____________________________________________ I started carb cycling and its working well. I'm down 12 pounds as of this morning. My weight loss speed has picked up. So far what I am doing is finally working. But, I'm still waiting to see if I have the dreaded weight gain bounce back. …

    • 8 replies
    • 2k views
  30. Started by tfarr,

    This has happened quite a few times since surgery ( 11/14) having heart burn so bad I vomit, or come close too. I never had any issues with heart burn prior to surgery. My gall bladder was removed 1 yr post op. It’s actually happening more often since. I was taking carafate and Prilosec for a while. I really just wanted an Endo but they wanted to try this method first and I was afraid to ask for one. I’m going for a 3 year f/u ( that I’ve put out off since December) maybe I will ask then. Because last night was by far the worst that is gS ever been at night. Unusually it’s during the day when I’m not laying down. End result of a lot of heartburn P/O sleeve? Any help wou…

  31. Started by mitzie46,

    Hello Everyone: I am 4 1/2 years out from gastric bypass and am experiencing weight gain. It didn’t just start and I know it’s because of how I am eating. I have gained about 25 pounds from my lowest weight since surgery and need to get back on track. Head hunger is the problem. I am back on this site for support and advice. Any words of wisdom to combat the head hunger? Fortunately I still dump if I eat too much sugar but unfortunately I have no problem eating carbs.

    • 3 replies
    • 2.3k views
  32. Started by ausmith,

    Wow I can’t believe the lack of Vet topics we have in this part of the forum. My Husband and I will be 4years VSG next weekend. When I first started researching VSG for us this was my bible. The amount of Vets that had so much good advice and were willing to share it freely. I know we all get on with our lives but I also know that we each have our own struggles and concerns. Let’s try to be there for each other and make sure those that do pop in or comeback know that we want to help and that we appreciate them sharing their experiences.

  33. Started by ProudGrammy,

    hey dudes/dudettes six years ago today (12-15) i was waiting to go into the OR!! like most others i was terrified - so excited. having the sleeve was a great decision. i did it!!! i am still around and able to talk about "it" i did have my ups and downs, but easy recovery, all was/is good. i've enjoyed many wonderful NSV's. buying smaller clothes in a regular store. sitting in the middle seat of three on an airplane. i am able to do many normal, basic day to day activities now that i had difficulty doing six (6) years ago! it's wonderful. might sound silly, but i love that i am able to bend up and down and …

  34. I use DEXA scans and metabolic testing to set my protein and calorie goals. Genetic testing has became more affordable and accessible for recreational and lay use. I decided to give it a whirl. I am not going to name companies here since the site is google searchable but if someone messages me I will name the companies privately. My DNA was sequenced by 2 companies. One company does everything self contained and another company sequences DNA and then sells you partner products based on that sequenced DNA. The first company allows you to download your DNA for upload to other companies. The 2nd company does not accept other DNA and does not allow you to export your DNA…

  35. Hello! I am new here and apologize if this topic is already talked about. I had my GB RNY in 2005, I lost all my extra weight and was at my lower at 55 kg, well that was nice but still too low. As we all did I gained a bit, 58 kg and was stable for 9.5 years but the last 1.5 I am regaining it again, and I am very depressed. I have a personal trainer, walk every day, and eat healthy... so lately I am reading about the Keto diet, I am curious but afraid to gain even more weight. Does anyone here have experience with that diet?

  36. This is going to be kind of rambling. My original personal secret goal for myself was just to get to 250 pounds. Being over 300 pounds for like 20 years that seemed like an amazing milestone on its own. I hit 250 at around 8.5 months, so I obviously I decided to keep going. I had a goal of 180, my HS weight but I never really thought it was obtainable, at least not when I started. I bounce around a lot in a weight range of 5 pounds right now, my body is really fighting against going lower but I know it will, it doesn't really have any choice with my diet and activity levels. I set a goal earlier this year to get my body fat to 30% and whatever weight that w…

    • 12 replies
    • 3.2k views
  37. Started by Healthy_life2,

    I'm back. I'm looking to reconnect. BP looks a bit different. I am going to have to learn how to use the forum again. Three years out and I still feel blessed for having my life back. Maintaining for me is just as hard as weight loss phase. I'm in the 140's. Trying to get 15 pounds down. Losing weight is at a snail's pace. looking forward to meeting new patients. I also hope to see familiar veterans.

  38. Started by ausmith,

    Hi everyone my Husband and I celebrated our 4 year sleeve anniversary yesterday. Just wondering if anyone else is left from that time? It would be great to compare notes as to how things are going

    • 1 reply
    • 1.3k views
  39. Vets- I am STILL struggling with my regain and have tried a couple different approaches. Online I found much info about doing 'resets'. However most of these call for drinking shakes again. I'm just not sure if that's a good approach. In fact, my new surgeon laughed when I mentioned it to him, because he said that at 3+ years out, shakes aren't going to do anything for me. PLus, I have developed a fierce case of of lactose intolerance so there is more to consider. Any thoughts on this? I really would love to communicate with any veterans who had regain and how you went about losing it.

  40. Started by LipstickLady,

    This place has REALLY slowed down. And not just this particular section, the entire site. What a shame. A great wealth of knowledge was lost...

  41. OH DEAR LORD!! That apostrophe in the title is HORRIBLE!!! FIX THAT: Veterans ONLY please. One year + post op. Please respond to this thread ONLY if you are a year or more post op. Thank you for your consideration. Many of us have expressed a desire to have a "safe place" for vets to discuss our progress, our maintenance plans, or just grumble in general. This forum is supposed to be that place, but it's quite often used as an "Ask A Vet" opportunity which is awesome, but sort of defeats the purpose. @@Alex Brecher and I have been tossing around ideas on how to better suit the needs of us oldies but goodies. We can restrict the forum by post number. We can …

    • 156 replies
    • 24.7k views
  42. Started by bellabloom,

    Hi all- I'm a vet, had my wls in 2014. Lost to goal and then some and have successfully maintained. I have also had all my plastic surgery and am just living a happy life now. I am here because I want to be supportive of others. Bariatric surgery was very complicated for me and I feel I have a lot to contribute no matter where you are on your journey because I have really struggled myself. I want to be there for newbies and other vets who may need support down the line. This surgey changed my life, almost cost me my life, and gave me back my life. If you want to talk I am here and never going to judge you.

    • 5 replies
    • 2k views
  43. Started by sunnysidega,

    I am curious if there are any lap-band patients still active on the site. I was banded 14+ years ago. My band is still in working order and it never lets me forget it's there. My band was an Inamed 4 cc. band. I actually go for a follow-up visit July 24th which will be the first time in many years. My surgeon no longer performs WLS but the practice still exists. I did reach my goal weight for a short time but gained quite a bit of weight back. It's no fault of my band. Like we "hear" (do we really listen is the thing) it is a tool. Hope to hear some feedback from some oldies but goodies.

  44. Started by mi75,

    i'm 3.5 years out; gained about 25 lbs. have little control. don't have great access to doctors-had to change docs due to insurance change and new doc only wants to see me if i'm going to discuss revision. don't feel I need revision. yes I have reflux again, but I've gained a lot of weight back which was always the cause of my reflux in the first place. NUT recommends a 'balanced diet' which I don't agree with. I can't eat hoards of fruit, sugar, and carbs and be successful. just looking to connect with some true vets and try to tackle this together. hubs needs some help too. we're both drinking pop, although i'm drinking mostly diet. trying very hard to get off the …

    • 8 replies
    • 2.8k views
  45. I'm 8.5 yrs out from Lapband surgery, had a small slip, lost my excess weight, working on a 25lb regain - overall good. My friend wanted my advice regarding surgeries etc, so I gave her the realistic version. It's a tool, life will not magically be perfect, excess skin, it's hard work but worth it. She's excited, all is good then she goes to my clinics wls seminar and questions what we've discussed since the doctor said: -wls is a fix -many people don't have excess skin --insurances routinely pay for skin removal, if it happens -Gastric sleeve patients can eat any foods. …

    • 5 replies
    • 2.4k views
  46. I have been a little MIA for a while trying to finish up my final graduate school classes-and I finally graduated! In the midst of the last year I've had some regain and trying to lose it. i'm also dealing with a ball out of left field- a possible cancer diagnosis. I have had a very persistent ovarian cyst for about 15 months. I've changed forms of birth control during that time and the thing has grown and shrunk multiple times. My Ob-Gyn has been very appropriate, following the ACOG rules and seeing me every few months and doing many MANY ultrasounds. Now it's changing and I'm having some strange symptoms that she (nor I) will dismiss- and Friday I had a CA-125 bloo…

    • 6 replies
    • 2.2k views
  47. I haven't been on these forums in about 2 years but decided I needed serious help and was hoping to be inspired again as I was 4 years ago when I had surgery. The bottom line is I've fallen back into old habits. I've regained almost all the weight I lost. Have had many false starts. Can't seem to stick with anything. I'm eating like a truck driver (no offense to truck drivers). Feel out of control. Weighed myself this morning. Refreshed my fitness app with new goals and started reading here. Words of advice much appreciated.

    • 16 replies
    • 5k views
  48. Recently I am noticing that I am sleepy often after eating. I just don't get how a tiny stomach can put me in a food coma. I'm also eating less overall right now for religious reasons so I am wondering if I just have more restriction now and this is causing it. It is a really odd feeling because it has been so long since it happened. Doesn't last that long. It could also just be coincidence. I am working longer hours to save for Plastics, and it could just be general exhaustion

  49. Started by tfarr,

    Hello, I'm about 2.5 years out of surgery. But, I still sometimes feel totally clueless about this Sleeve I got. I Looked at pictures from a year or so ago yesterday, I'm still the same size, believe me, 163 is better than 260. But, I can't seem to get a grip. I've posted on here my issues, bad moments and sometimes good moments. But, I still feel like I failed because my mind has a hold of me ALL THE TIME. I spoke to my therapist ( I've been with her for 5 years) I want to know what's my reasoning for emotional eating, causes ya know? So far, nothing really. I hear the Big Book on Gastric sleeve is a good one

    • 2 replies
    • 2.8k views
  50. We have all these newbies coming in with questions/statements that make me wonder if they ever sat down with a NUT, their surgeon or if they were given any type of pre-op training. Is it OK to eat pizza/tacos/fried chicken? Is ice cream soft? How about milk shakes? I ate swedish fish/noodles/rice a few days post op. I am eating french fries and chicken nuggets, but it's ok because I'm ok so everyone else will be too. I want it so I ate it and I am going to get mad an anyone and everyone who tells me it wasn't a good idea. Anyone who disagrees is mean, rude, sarcastic, judgmental, non supportive, a bully, horrible, rotten, a monster. I get that this backlash is a d…

    • 35 replies
    • 9.1k views

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