Who’s getting tired of all the ads that are calling the proposals for Health Care reform “Socialized Medicine”? Even the most liberal approach to the reforms “Single Payer” is not at all socialized medicine. At most, it might me considered “socialized payment” or “socialized administration”. None of the plans call for socialized medicine, if you are one that falls for this misinformation then the Insurance Companies are getting just what they want from you.

A more realistic example of socialized medicine would be the British System, in which the hospitals are run by the government and the doctors are on the payroll of the government. Another example closer to home would be the VA in which the government provides the hospitals and the doctors to vets. What is being proposed here “Single Payer or a Government Option” is a system in which the federal program only takes the place of the insurance company and pays the bills to the doctors or the hospitals. This program is more analogous to the Canadian and French systems. The beauty of this program is that it takes away the insanity that doctors have to go thru in dealing with hundreds of separate carriers and it provides coverage for everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions.

Do you really have a personal relationship with your insurance provider today? Do you even have a choice in which carrier you get? Most people don’t, they have to take whatever carrier their company provides for them. And then, once they take the carrier that is provided, they usually have to pick a doctor that is on the plan that the company offers. I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound like a lot of free choice to me. You are being lied to by Insurance Companies. Single Payer will provide more choice and more cost savings to the average household. The only group that will suffer form this are the Insurance Carriers, and they will tell you every lie they can to stop it from being implemented. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for these companies. The way I see it, they are a big reason costs have escalated and quality of care has decreased over the last 30 years.

Holy carp fishman! Breathe before somebody gets hurt!

I live in Ontario, which means I live under socialized medicine. It's ok, I'll say it, socialized... it's not too scary a word, however if you want to be all PC about it, the more appropriate term is "universal health care". Most Canadians are watching this insanity south of the border, and we sit scratching out heads over the matter with a :mad2: look all over us. For us, it's like watching a very angry tennis match and we don't quite understand the rules.

It has it's down sides sometimes I admit, but I wouldn't give it up for the world. I don't have to worry that nobody will deny me treatment even if I am a complete disaster. That being said, I'm paying 100% for my lap band because I've opted not to go the gastric bypass route that Ontario will pick up the tab for, so I'm out $18K. You know what? I can deal with that as long as I'm not putting tax dollars to waste paying for somebody else's hot DD boob impants. Of course, if that particular person has lost one breast to cancer then I don't mind paying for one boob.

Our universal health care doesn't cover it all. I still pay through the nose for dental and I pay for drugs. If I stay in the hospital I pay daily for the TV in my room, and that ambulance ride isn't completely free. But the basics of life are covered... annual physical, ER, my father's hip replacement, and it's a comfort to have. Ok, sometimes I have to wait stupid times to get a service, and I admit that it sucks, but it's still better than not being able to afford to go see him at all.

Many articles written in our newspapers suggest that the Canadian model of health care may not be suitable for the US, not because the US could never make the Canadian model work, but because of that little thing called culture. Canadians and Americans just aren't the same. Nobody's better or worse, but we're just not the same and we have different views on some fundamental concepts of society. A big news story for you was Michelle Obama's shorts. A big news story for us was Prime Minister Jean Cretien strangling a heckler with his bare hands, but only because it was so damn funny.

There is an article which you all may be interested in:

The true measure of cross-border health - The Globe and Mail

I have nothing to gain no matter which side of the arguement wins. I am thinking though, that something has to be done in the US. It's a sad, sad thing that so many Americans living in Detroit are marrying their friends living in Ontario just so they can get health care... Wait, it does mean I gain something from the US situation being ironed out... MY taxes may go down.... yeah, in my maple syrup laden dreams.:thumbup:

OMG, I nearly pee'd on myself reading your post! I loved it! I was born and semi raised in Canada (Wpg) and I know first hand about "socialized" medicine. . . unfortunately I had 2 aunts who died from being on a waiting list for radiation treatments. . . i myself would have died had i stayed in canada because i had 24/7 "migraines" and went to the doctor after doctor who didn't do much other than give me some pills, some tests, then when they couldn't "find" the problem blamed me for it and told me that a good psychotherapist might be in order. . . when i moved to the US, it was found I had a tumor behind my left eye and a shunt had to be placed right away because the pressures had built up so high that a hemmoragh could happen any day. . . I was so lucky. . . no more headaches. . . .

I think I would rather hear about Jean Cretian strangling a heckler than stupid Michelle and her stupid ugly self. . . now there is a real 1st family (1st ugly family ever) . . . oh well truth hurts. . . :thumbup:

Edited September 15, 200917 yr by Erykah

Katklaws is back! I wondered where you were hiding!

Definitely not hiding. Just freakin busy! I come back here and there's 15 more pages. And I'm still right ..

:mad2:

Congress Deadlocked Over How To Not Provide Health Care | The Onion - America's Finest News Source :tongue2:

WASHINGTON—After months of committee meetings and hundreds of hours of heated debate, the United States Congress remained deadlocked this week over the best possible way to deny Americans health care.

"Both parties understand that the current system is broken," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters Monday. "But what we can't seem to agree upon is how to best keep it broken, while still ensuring that no elected official takes any political risk whatsoever. It’s a very complicated issue."

"Ultimately, though, it's our responsibility as lawmakers to put these differences aside and focus on refusing Americans the health care they deserve," Pelosi added.

The legislative stalemate largely stems from competing ideologies deeply rooted along party lines. Democrats want to create a government-run system for not providing health care, while Republicans say coverage is best denied by allowing private insurers to make it unaffordable for as many citizens as possible.

"We have over 40 million people without insurance in this country today, and that is unacceptable," Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) said. "If we would just quit squabbling so much, we could get that number up to 50 or even 100 million. Why, there's no reason we can't work together to deny health care to everyone but the richest 1 percent of the population."

"That's what America is all about," he added.

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) said on Meet The Press that Republicans would never agree to a plan that doesn't allow citizens the choice to be denied medical care in the private sector.

"Americans don't need some government official telling them they don't have the proper coverage to receive treatment," Boehner said. "What they need is massive insurance companies to become even more rich and powerful by withholding from average citizens the care they so desperately require. We're talking about people's health and the obscene profits associated with that, after all."

Though there remain irreconcilable points, both parties have reached some common ground in recent weeks. Senate leaders Harry Reid (D-NV) and Mitch McConnell (R-KY) point to Congress' failure to pass legislation before a July 31 deadline as proof of just how serious lawmakers are about stringing along the American people and never actually reforming the health care industry in any meaningful way.

"People should know that every day we are working without their best interests in mind," Reid said. "But the goal here is not to push through some watered-down bill that only denies health care to a few Americans here and a few Americans there. The goal is to recognize that all Americans have a God-given right to proper medical attention and then make sure there's no chance in hell that ever happens."

"No matter what we come up with," Reid continued, "rest assured that millions of citizens will remain dangerously uninsured, and the inflated health care industry will continue to bankrupt the country for decades."

Other lawmakers stressed that, while there has been some progress, the window of cooperation was closing.

"When you get into the nuts and bolts of how best not to provide people with care essential to their survival, there are many things to take into consideration," Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) said. "I believe we can create a plan for Americans that allows them to not be able to go to the hospital, not get the treatment they need, and ultimately wither away and die. But we've got to act fast."

For his part, President Barack Obama claimed to be optimistic, even saying he believes that a health care denial bill will pass in both houses of Congress by the end of the year.

"We have an opportunity to do something truly historic in 2009," Obama said to a mostly silent crowd during a town hall meeting in Virginia yesterday. "I promise I will only sign a clear and comprehensive health care bill that fully denies coverage to you, your sick mother, her husband, middle-class Americans, single-parent households, the unemployed, and most importantly, anyone in need of emergency medical attention."

"This administration is committed to not providing health care," Obama added. "Not just for this generation of Americans, but for many generations to come.

Isn't it true that his plan would enforce people to pay a $3800. fine, or some high figure like that, if they don't buy insurance? Isn't that a 'tax'? A tax is any fee the government requires you to pay to them.

And didn't Obama say that 47 million people were without insurance in this country? Now it's 30 million in his last speech.

It's never a person's "right" to have anything. This country has established from the beginning a "free enterprise" and his given everyone here the "right" to a pursuit of anything thay would like. Including health care.

It's never a person's "right" to have anything. This country has established from the beginning a "free enterprise" and his given everyone here the "right" to a pursuit of anything thay would like. Including health care.

Have you even read the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights? Or did Glen Beck tell you that?

Not all insurances are greedy, I just wanted to point this out as I know we are all considered evil. Right now the company I work for only makes 3 cents to the dollar and that money goes back into the reserve to pay for claims. Cost of health care is more than insurance companies driving premiums up. Some may be greedy but not all. Its a big picture. Pre existing waiting periods, yes I agree need to be fixed the problem to fix is if an insurance company now has to cover the conditions of all these really sick high cost claims, they will end up not having enough to put in reserves, even with the extra premiums that would be paid. Gotta figure out how to solve that problem it is important, without us the taxpayers footing that whole bill. The cost of medical care is outlandish, including here are the big drivers Our company saw 28 million more dollars being paid out in prescription medicine. Doctors and hospitals jumping to high cost medical treatments first when a less expensive test or procedure could of solved the problem. which is why we are now back to prior authorization to try and reduce those costs to try and keep premiums lower for our customers. We are trying! There may be some insurance companies who rake in and dont run their business ethical but that isnt true for most. 3 cents on the dollar that is it. and that is going into reserves to pay your claims.

Not all insurances are greedy, I just wanted to point this out as I know we are all considered evil. Right now the company I work for only makes 3 cents to the dollar and that money goes back into the reserve to pay for claims. Cost of health care is more than insurance companies driving premiums up. Some may be greedy but not all. Its a big picture. Pre existing waiting periods, yes I agree need to be fixed the problem to fix is if an insurance company now has to cover the conditions of all these really sick high cost claims, they will end up not having enough to put in reserves, even with the extra premiums that would be paid. Gotta figure out how to solve that problem it is important, without us the taxpayers footing that whole bill. The cost of medical care is outlandish, including here are the big drivers Our company saw 28 million more dollars being paid out in prescription medicine. Doctors and hospitals jumping to high cost medical treatments first when a less expensive test or procedure could of solved the problem. which is why we are now back to prior authorization to try and reduce those costs to try and keep premiums lower for our customers. We are trying! There may be some insurance companies who rake in and dont run their business ethical but that isnt true for most. 3 cents on the dollar that is it. and that is going into reserves to pay your claims.

I'm curious, what profit did your company make last year?

we are a non profit health insurance company

Devana you took the words right out of my mouth. Since chicamam knows all about the profit and loss and big picture of insurance companies (at least hers) it would be very beneficial to know exactly what the profit was for her company last year.

Most insurance companies who are in the medical insurance business reaped billions last year. At least that is what has been reported. If chicamam's company isn't among one of those, why are they in the business?

Having said that, I agree that high insurance premiums are not the WHOLE picture. I heard that a pharmacutical company has decided to cut the costs of a particular life-saving medicine so that certain poor people in a poor country could afford to get it and save lives. I ask you, who's paying for that? If it is coming out of the pharmacutical's profits, what the hell? Why aren't they cutting costs to Americans who have made those profits possible? If they're just passing the costs on to those people who are paying the higher prices, what the hell? We're paying that bill too.

I imagine what's happening is that our government is giving them some kind of subsidy or giving them a tax incentive to do it. In any case, unless the company is cutting the margin of profit they're making, we're paying.

If I am wrong about this, please straighten me out.

chicamam, please tell me more about your non-profit insurance company. I had no idea that there were companies who were providing insurance to folks and not making a profit. Who's behind the formation of that company?

This taxpayer march on Washington was the largest gathering of fiscal conservatives in DC ever in the history of the the National Capital. This clearly shows that the people don't want the government to continue its spending sprees, or to socialize the nation or to begin a health care insurance plan that they can't financially sustain. Their past records of bankruptcy in programs is enough evidence for me to know that the government can't run anything right without depleting the funds for it. When has there ever been such an uproar from the people in the USA where thousands flew in from every state to protest their disgust? If thousands came from every state, then obviously there were many, many, many more who would have loved to join the protest, but could not afford to fly there or miss time from work. I was one of them. Funny how the liberal stations didn't give this event the time of day, as huge as it was.

You do realize that reliable sources have determined those pictures to be fake and the crowd estimates to be overblown don’t you? The rally organizers and your pal Glen Beck would have you believe the numbers were between 1.5 million and 2 million. Nonpartisan Politifact and DC Fire estimate the numbers to be around 60 and 75k. Quote form Catherine Richert at Politifact:

“It was an impressive crowd,” Piringer said. But after marching down Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol the crowd “only filled the Capitol grounds, maybe up to Third Street,” he said. Yet the photo showed the crowd sprawling far beyond that to the Washington Monument, which is bordered by 15th and and 17th Streets. There’s another big problem with the photograph: it doesn’t include the National Museum of the American Indian, a building located at the corner of Fourth St. and Independence Ave. that opened on Sept. 14, 2004… That means the picture was taken before the museum opened exactly five years ago. So clearly the photo doesn’t show the “tea party” crowd from the Sept. 12 protest.

Who is lying here:confused:

Is it a surprise to anyone that the right wingnuts would stoop that low?

Last year at this time, did you think that we would be where we are today? A 'czar' appointed by the president is cutting the pay of execs in private businesses by 50 or 90%?, Another 'czar' talking about resisting talk radio, A plan floating around to subsidize newspapers, to create a situation where some newspapers, in order to survive, would need to depend on the government liking what they publish?, The governemnet "experts' who will decide who can and can't get life saving medical treatment? Obama has talked about the idea of a National police force. That seems more like the brown shirts of dictators than like anything American. How far this president will go depends on how much resistance he gets. The direction he is trying to go tells us so much about him. The people he has associated with all his life have expressed their hostility to the values, principals and people of this country. Rev. Wright said it with his words,"God damn America!" And don't forget that Obama sat at his feet every Sunday for 20 years in his church. Bill Ayers said it with bombs he planted. The Czars he has appointed have praised enemy dictators like Mao, have seen the public schools as places to promote sexual practices contrary to most American's values. Why should we assume that Obama didn't know what these people were like? especially since he had been associating with them for decades. His involvement with Acorn prior to his candidacy speaks volumes. Acorn is a dispicable program that cheats and defrauds with government funds. This country better react to his plan of socializing America. Let's pray that the public option health care bill doesn't get through the senate, for if it does, those democrats will be jobless in 2010.

With those words, and many others that you have posted at LBT, you have convinced me that you are a very extreme individual who does not pay any attention to the truth. You make up your own truth. You and Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Rupert Murdock and other extremists.

It has been admitted by Murdock that he tells his employees what they can say and what they must say. If a person is being interviewed on air and Murdock (and his employees/screeners) do not like what the person being interviewed is saying, they lower the volume on that person and up the volume on their employee/show host. And that is only one of the tricks they play on people like you.

It is almost amusing to watch extremists waving signs that say: NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, CNN, and the BBC are all left wing organizations who don't report the real news. Amusing because it is so ludicrous! There is one television station that people like you agree with: Fox. Everybody else is telling lies. What foolishness. What folly. At least it would be if it weren't so dangerous.

Because Fox preaches (yes, preaches) hate. They don't just slant the news, they actually manipulate their entire broadcasts. They have been known to lie. They certainly misrepresent facts. And it's very obvious to everyone but those people who like the lies, the ones who agree with the hate and the venom that spews from that station.

And their devotees are convinced to take to the streets with signs and even guns. They show up and they scream hate slogans. They claim that the president isn't a citizen of the U.S. They hold our president responsible for things that a riled up minister said. They hold the president responsible for actions that a man who in his early years was a radical who demonstrated against things that the government at the time was doing.

How are Bill Ayers or Rev. Wright any worse than the likes of you? The difference between them and you is that they have apologized and admitted that they were wrong.

You sure won't do that. You won't see that you are just as guilty of radicalism as they have been. You won't try to learn the truth behind the false claims that you hear coming from the right wing. You just join in the fray and bellow about how bad our president is and you even go so far as to compare him to Hitler.

That proves, beyond a doubt, that you are an extremist. You are incapable of understanding the truth. You do not allow the truth to get in the way of your hate for our president and what he is trying to do.

That is such a pity and so irritating in light of the fact that you were one of the ones who said that, during the former president's tenure, that if we didn't respect our president that it was akin to treason. You accused those of us who vocally disagreed with President Bush, of being unpatriotic and unAmerican.

Well guess what that makes you... right now!!