Who’s getting tired of all the ads that are calling the proposals for Health Care reform “Socialized Medicine”? Even the most liberal approach to the reforms “Single Payer” is not at all socialized medicine. At most, it might me considered “socialized payment” or “socialized administration”. None of the plans call for socialized medicine, if you are one that falls for this misinformation then the Insurance Companies are getting just what they want from you.

A more realistic example of socialized medicine would be the British System, in which the hospitals are run by the government and the doctors are on the payroll of the government. Another example closer to home would be the VA in which the government provides the hospitals and the doctors to vets. What is being proposed here “Single Payer or a Government Option” is a system in which the federal program only takes the place of the insurance company and pays the bills to the doctors or the hospitals. This program is more analogous to the Canadian and French systems. The beauty of this program is that it takes away the insanity that doctors have to go thru in dealing with hundreds of separate carriers and it provides coverage for everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions.

Do you really have a personal relationship with your insurance provider today? Do you even have a choice in which carrier you get? Most people don’t, they have to take whatever carrier their company provides for them. And then, once they take the carrier that is provided, they usually have to pick a doctor that is on the plan that the company offers. I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound like a lot of free choice to me. You are being lied to by Insurance Companies. Single Payer will provide more choice and more cost savings to the average household. The only group that will suffer form this are the Insurance Carriers, and they will tell you every lie they can to stop it from being implemented. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for these companies. The way I see it, they are a big reason costs have escalated and quality of care has decreased over the last 30 years.

These clowns have been conditioned for years and years by Rush Limbaugh saying these things and getting away with it. Now they have it coming at them by different people, constantly. The liars and perpetuaters of the lies are in hog heaven. And the people who believe it all, without question, are incited into a frenzy of hate.

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Give the American people some credit , will ya? We have minds of our own just like you do. Who influences you to think as you do? Isn't it your own reasoning after you have heard from everyone else? I, personally, have NEVER listened to that guy Rush L. speak on anything.

Everytime you liberals see that your opposers actually oppose you, it's automatically because "they are haters". Grow up. Can't you think of a better reason for why we oppose your way of thinking? Could it be because WE DON'T AGREE WITH YOU!!!!! Hey! why don't us conservatives start with calling liberals "government worshipers" for every issue that you don't agree with us on. Can you see the ridiculousness of your name calling? But I understand your incessive need and desire to use the word 'hate", for the word hate insinuates every ill will that mankind can have on people. Just as the opposite of the word hate is LOVE. The fullness of God, who is love. If you could convince your party that those in opposition are 'Haters' of mankind and the betterment of mankind, you can then be justified in your attempts at taking us down or getting rid of us. The bible speaks of this mentality of those who oppose righteousness in the end times. We are surly moving towards that.

Edited September 13, 200917 yr by pattygreen

I just read that a study by the National Academy of Sciences that 18,000 people die per year in the US due to lack of health insurance, the equivalent of one every half hour.

This situation is just plain wrong.

What is wrong is that you people are fighting for the wrong cause! If you REALLY cared about the number of deaths in this country annually, you should be waging a war against the government not putting a ban on the sale and use of tobacco. For that kills 435,000 people every year, and theres not a peep out of the one of you to stop the killing!!!!! That 18,000 you quote for lack if health insurance is but a pinhole in the lack of deaths from smoking and many other causes. Give me a break! Where are your priorities?! This situation is just plain wrong.

Wow, another red herring. congratulations, for I am sure you thunk up this nicotine thing as being the answer to the health care problem all on your own.

patty your side says we are all for death panels and all kinds of dopey bull. Your side says we are socialists. You call us and Obama all kinds of unflattering things. Things that frankly are not true.

No wonder we think that those who engage in this, instead of trying to seriously change the health care industry and solving the problem, are not too bright. That kind of name calling and the attempt to sideline the real issues by saying ALL government is bad, stop smoking and it'll fix health care, just invoke terms limits, limit malpractice lawsuits, etc., are extremely transparent. None of those things will solve the problem. The are important issues, but those things will not solve the problem.

But you seem to be having fun, so have at it.

I just read that a study by the National Academy of Sciences that 18,000 people die per year in the US due to lack of health insurance, the equivalent of one every half hour.

This situation is just plain wrong.

How many die to illegal aliens each year? Nobody seems to give a crap about THOSE numbers.

And for what it's worth, I take NOT stock in numbers that are projected from left- or right-wing organizations. This one's about as leftist as you can get.

Wong Way Wilson.

What is wrong is that you people are fighting for the wrong cause! If you REALLY cared about the number of deaths in this country annually, you should be waging a war against the government not putting a ban on the sale and use of tobacco. For that kills 435,000 people every year, and theres not a peep out of the one of you to stop the killing!!!!! That 18,000 you quote for lack if health insurance is but a pinhole in the lack of deaths from smoking and many other causes. Give me a break! Where are your priorities?! This situation is just plain wrong.

You know what? At some point some people choose to put the cigarette in their mouth. Some people choose to open the cap and drink. Some people choose to open the fridge and eat that whatever even though they're not hungry.

So fine, ban tobacco. What do you get but a whole crime industry revolving around the acquisition and sale of it.

What's next: banning alcohol, perhaps overeating??

All these things cause massive health issues.

I'm concerned about the person who loses their health insurance when they lose their job, then can't get re-insured due to a pre-existing health condition. Plain wrong.

You know what? At some point some people choose to put the cigarette in their mouth. Some people choose to open the cap and drink. Some people choose to open the fridge and eat that whatever even though they're not hungry.

So fine, ban tobacco. What do you get but a whole crime industry revolving around the acquisition and sale of it.

What's next: banning alcohol, perhaps overeating??

All these things cause massive health issues.

I'm concerned about the person who loses their health insurance when they lose their job, then can't get re-insured due to a pre-existing health condition. Plain wrong.

It was not my point by posting to 'ban' cigarettes or anything else. It's to point out that Dems want to inject changes into a complete overhaul of the health care system that will inevitably destroy us financially at the worst possible time while our economy is in the dumps! You are insighting 18,000 people who die from lack of insurance a year, and I am telling you that your priorities are screwed up. 453,000 a year die from cigarettes every year and noone is up in arms about it like they are the 18,000 who die from lack of insurance. Really!

It was not my point by posting to 'ban' cigarettes or anything else. It's to point out that Dems want to inject changes into a complete overhaul of the health care system that will inevitably destroy us financially at the worst possible time while our economy is in the dumps! You are insighting 18,000 people who die from lack of insurance a year, and I am telling you that your priorities are screwed up. 453,000 a year die from cigarettes every year and noone is up in arms about it like they are the 18,000 who die from lack of insurance. Really!

Cigarette smoking is a choice. Those who do it, do it knowing full well the consequences. Banning products seldom works because it just creates an illegal market for the product. It's hard to be sympathetic to people who, through their reckless behavior, contribute to their own deaths. Cigarette smokers, those who ride motorcycles without helmets, those who don't wear seatbelts, etc... But most people without health insurance cannot afford health insurance or have been turned down due to a pre-existing condition or have lost their job - i.e. not through their own fault - like smoking is. Deaths from smoking is very much through their own fault. The two cannot even be equated and to make a comparison is ridiculous.

Cigarette smoking is a choice. Those who do it, do it knowing full well the consequences. Banning products seldom works because it just creates an illegal market for the product. It's hard to be sympathetic to people who, through their reckless behavior, contribute to their own deaths. Cigarette smokers, those who ride motorcycles without helmets, those who don't wear seatbelts, etc... But most people without health insurance cannot afford health insurance or have been turned down due to a pre-existing condition or have lost their job - i.e. not through their own fault - like smoking is. Deaths from smoking is very much through their own fault. The two cannot even be equated and to make a comparison is ridiculous.

All of the poor people in my State that don't have medical insurance can already go to their local social services office and apply for medical insurance. It's free to them. Those who make too much money and can't get on it, yet not enough money to purchase it, are the ones with the problem. Raise the standard for income eligibility for those who are not eligible, and reduce their taxes. With the money they save they could purchase medical insurance for themselves, or be eligible to get on it. (they wouldn't though, because most of the 47 million without insurance (not including illegals) right now can afford to purchase it, but choose to spend their surplus of income elsewhere, and that's their business to do so) It would cost the government FAR less money to do that than to restructure the WHOLE way we are doing it now. 85% of Americans are happy with their insurance right now. Why mess with that high percentage? Ever notice how the government messes with the things that the people feel are just fine and doesn't mess with the things that are failing?

All of the poor people in my State that don't have medical insurance can already go to their local social services office and apply for medical insurance. It's free to them. That's medicaid and the requirements are very strict to receive it. Those who make too much money and can't get on it, yet not enough money to purchase it, are the ones with the problem. Raise the standard for income eligibility for those who are not eligible, and reduce their taxes. People who don't make enough to purchase insurance are paying very little in the way of taxes. They are called the working poor. They don't make enough money to pay much in taxes but too much to be eligible for medicaid. I don't know what you mean by raise the standard for income eligibility. But I am in favor of lowering the income eligibility so more people turned away could be eligible for medicaid. Or have an affordable public option. With the money they save they could purchase medical insurance for themselves, or be eligible to get on it. (they wouldn't though, because most of the 47 million without insurance (not including illegals) right now can afford to purchase it, but choose to spend their surplus of income elsewhere, and that's their business to do so) Actually, it isn't their business to do so, because it cost every one of us about $1000/year to pay for the uninsured. We are all required to have car insurance whether we would like to or not, or whether we would rather spend the money somewhere else or not. Under Obama's plan, those people who choose not to purchase insurance would be required to do so. Just like auto insurance. It would cost the government FAR less money to do that than to restructure the WHOLE way we are doing it now. 85% of Americans are happy with their insurance right now. Why mess with that high percentage? Ever notice how the government messes with the things that the people feel are just fine and doesn't mess with the things that are failing?

The people didn't think the economy was doing fine. The banks were failing and bush started the bailouts and Obama continued them but it was only after Obama continued the bailouts that you were against that, too.

So were you for the government messing with the failing (of the banks) before you were against it?

That's what I meant.

it cost every one of us about $1000/year to pay for the uninsured.

If you think that's alot, what's it going to cost us when we have to pay for everyone under his plan, not just the uninsured? Yes, your taxes and mine will have to cover it. Whose going to pay for it?

So were you for the government messing with the failing (of the banks) before you were against it?

no. I'm not for the government messing with anything. They mess up everything they try to run and finance.

How many die to illegal aliens each year? Nobody seems to give a crap about THOSE numbers.

And for what it's worth, I take NOT stock in numbers that are projected from left- or right-wing organizations. This one's about as leftist as you can get.

The talking point from the Right in the last few days is all about whether or not Illegal Aliens will be covered the Health Care plan. The fact is that the bill specifically says that illegals are not covered. Here is what the HR Bill says

H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

Now that sounds pretty clear to me. The folks on the Right are now aware of this clause (I guess THEY finally read the bill), so now they are in an uproar that even though it says that, there is no clause for enforcement so the nasty illegals will still find a way to take advantage of our healthcare. You know something interesting? Somebody has thought of this “needy service” before. The House Oversight committee looked into several of these existing verification components and found that they spent $8.3 Million and caught a total of 8 illegal aliens. Hmmmm, $1M per illegal – sounds a little pricey but well worth it I’m sure:wink2:

So were you for the government messing with the failing (of the banks) before you were against it?

no. I'm not for the government messing with anything. They mess up everything they try to run and finance.

insurance right now. Why mess with that high percentage? Ever notice how the government messes with the things that the people feel are just fine and doesn't mess with the things that are failing?

This is what you said. That the government doesn't mess with things that are failing. That was a criticism. But I pointed out that the government did "mess with" the failing banks, but you are against that too. You can't have it both ways.