Who’s getting tired of all the ads that are calling the proposals for Health Care reform “Socialized Medicine”? Even the most liberal approach to the reforms “Single Payer” is not at all socialized medicine. At most, it might me considered “socialized payment” or “socialized administration”. None of the plans call for socialized medicine, if you are one that falls for this misinformation then the Insurance Companies are getting just what they want from you.

A more realistic example of socialized medicine would be the British System, in which the hospitals are run by the government and the doctors are on the payroll of the government. Another example closer to home would be the VA in which the government provides the hospitals and the doctors to vets. What is being proposed here “Single Payer or a Government Option” is a system in which the federal program only takes the place of the insurance company and pays the bills to the doctors or the hospitals. This program is more analogous to the Canadian and French systems. The beauty of this program is that it takes away the insanity that doctors have to go thru in dealing with hundreds of separate carriers and it provides coverage for everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions.

Do you really have a personal relationship with your insurance provider today? Do you even have a choice in which carrier you get? Most people don’t, they have to take whatever carrier their company provides for them. And then, once they take the carrier that is provided, they usually have to pick a doctor that is on the plan that the company offers. I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound like a lot of free choice to me. You are being lied to by Insurance Companies. Single Payer will provide more choice and more cost savings to the average household. The only group that will suffer form this are the Insurance Carriers, and they will tell you every lie they can to stop it from being implemented. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for these companies. The way I see it, they are a big reason costs have escalated and quality of care has decreased over the last 30 years.

If you believe that using the term "death panel" is innacurate, why use it? We all know why and hence, the froth. Glub, glub, glub.

If you believe that using the term "death panel" is innacurate, why use it? We all know why and hence, the froth. Glub, glub, glub.

Real answer - I don't use that term.

Snarky answer - It's the "wild indian" inside me!!

Wrong answer - you did use that term.

Indian giver of words.

Wrong answer - you did use that term.

Indian giver of words.

Well, yeah, I used it in the same breath as when I said it was an inaccurate term. By that standard, you have also used that term when you said:

If you believe that using the term "death panel" is innacurate, why use it? We all know why and hence, the froth. Glub, glub, glub.

Aha! Caught in the act! BJean said "death panel"! Quit trying to scare and mislead the public, BJean...

Plain: "Look, I agree that saying "there are death panels" is inaccurate. But, death panels could be the inadvertant result of the overburdening of medical resources."

Emphasis mine. Words, yours.

If you believe that using the term "death panel" is innacurate, why use it? We all know why and hence, the froth. Glub, glub, glub.

See? you said it too.

Why can't you just take responsibility for your use of the term? You know the context in which I used it - in reference to your usage when you said that "death panels could be the inadvertant result of the overburdening of medical resources."

You pulling my leg again and if so, the very nerve~! :thumbup:

Why can't you just take responsibility for your use of the term?

Ok. You got me. I say it loud, and I say it often. It's all part of the "neocon's strategy guide to ensure America's doom". Page 14. I hope that, by repeating it often enough, I will eventually brainwash the entire nation.

Hopefully, even though I'm not currently a member of the wealthy ruling class, I'll be rewarded for being a good lackey and spreading misinformation.

Ok. You got me. I say it loud, and I say it often. It's all part of the "neocon's strategy guide to ensure America's doom". Page 14. I hope that, by repeating it often enough, I will eventually brainwash the entire nation.

Hopefully, even though I'm not currently a member of the wealthy ruling class, I'll be rewarded for being a good lackey and spreading misinformation.

Liar, its on page 15.

Everybody knows that even pages are blank in that book because they are on the left side and nothing good comes from the left side.

I knew it!! The wealthy ruling class want to burn all the wrong books!

Were you right wingers all proud of the way your people in Congress behaved last night? I'll bet you were. You probably think it was fantastic that one of your heros yelled out at the president that what he was saying was a lie.

I hope you realize that the Republican's behavior last night exposed what they're all about. They are obviously in the pocket of the insurance companies since the president's remarks about making it illegal for them to not insure anyone with a preexisting conditiion were received by the Republicans with such disdain. Have you ever seen such sour looks and ugly demeanor before when a president has addressed congress? I never have.

I heard one of the Republicans afterwards saying that the Democrats refused to include some of the Republicans proposals in the bills that are being considered and so they just aren't going to work with the Democrats on it. So it sounds like the Republicans are saying it's their way or the highway. In other words, the American people won't be getting any help at all from Republicans on ensuring that we have attainable and affordable health care.

I hope Americans don't forget this mess when they go to the polls to vote for these clowns again and they toss the bums out.

I watched part of the Larry King interview John McCain last night. Interesting. Larry asked McCain what he thought about the president saying if people lie about what's in the healthcare bills and if they continue to make up stuff to scare Americans that he (Obama) is going to call them out on it. McCain said that he thought that was wrong of Obama and that he shouldn't have said that.

But what Larry King didn't follow up with was why is it acceptable for people like Sarah Palin to go public with claims that are outrageous and untrue?

Republicans obviously have no intention of reaching across the aisle (like last night when they sat there with their arms folded, grim-faced when everyone else was giving the president an ovation when he said that Americans deserve a better health care system) and refuse to work with Democrats to change a system that is not serving the American people and is only boosting the insurance companies' bottom line.

This is a life and death situation that has become unfair and intolerable and Americans deserve better. We look to the congress and president for help. Republicans are refusing to engage and compromise and get something done. Americans should not put up with it!

Were you right wingers all proud of the way your people in Congress behaved last night? I'll bet you were. You probably think it was fantastic that one of your heros yelled out at the president that what he was saying was a lie.

I hope you realize that the Republican's behavior last night exposed what they're all about. They are obviously in the pocket of the insurance companies since the president's remarks about making it illegal for them to not insure anyone with a preexisting conditiion were received by the Republicans with such disdain. Have you ever seen such sour looks and ugly demeanor before when a president has addressed congress? I never have.

I heard one of the Republicans afterwards saying that the Democrats refused to include some of the Republicans proposals in the bills that are being considered and so they just aren't going to work with the Democrats on it. So it sounds like the Republicans are saying it's their way or the highway. In other words, the American people won't be getting any help at all from Republicans on ensuring that we have attainable and affordable health care.

I hope Americans don't forget this mess when they go to the polls to vote for these clowns again and they toss the bums out.

It was congressman Joe Wilson from SC who yelled out to the president of the United States "You lie!". He had Obama's speech in advance so his apology about letting his emotions get in the way rings hollow. I am updating this because by his own admission, he was asked to apologize by the republican leadership. So his apology is meaningless. At least Obama accepted the apology which shows what a statesman he is.

I though Obama's speech was powerful and persuasive and had just enough "fed up-ness" in it to be great.

The republicans have never wanted any reform - health, insurance or any kind of reform. They just want to spread lies and look ahead to 2010 and 2012. It's all about them.

The rude, disinterested republicans of last night are the people the tea baggers, birthers, deathers, and all the other irrational people support. I am glad all of america got to see them for what they are.

Edited September 10, 200917 yr by Cleo's Mom
new info

I watched part of the Larry King interview John McCain last night. Interesting. Larry asked McCain what he thought about the president saying if people lie about what's in the healthcare bills and if they continue to make up stuff to scare Americans that he (Obama) is going to call them out on it. McCain said that he thought that was wrong of Obama and that he shouldn't have said that.

But what Larry King didn't follow up with was why is it acceptable for people like Sarah Palin to go public with claims that are outrageous and untrue?

Republicans obviously have no intention of reaching across the aisle (like last night when they sat there with their arms folded, grim-faced when everyone else was giving the president an ovation when he said that Americans deserve a better health care system) and refuse to work with Democrats to change a system that is not serving the American people and is only boosting the insurance companies' bottom line.

This is a life and death situation that has become unfair and intolerable and Americans deserve better. We look to the congress and president for help. Republicans are refusing to engage and compromise and get something done. Americans should not put up with it!

It's intertesting that McCain said that was wrong of Obama to say that he would call out the people who lie about healthcare because during the campaign, McCain said he would "call out" and name those who put pork in spending bills and we "would know them by their names". Apparently pork is bad but lies are okay. Just another typical hypocritical republican. I have said it before, on this board, and in public, etc: If it weren't for hypocrisy, the republicans would have nothing.

As an aside to this, a CA state rep named Duvall - a republican, family values, anti-gay voter, had to resign after getting caught speaking into an open mike in the chambers to another rep about having sex and getting into spanking with a young woman who happened to be a lobbyist. He didn't apologize, just said this was a distraction, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Barney Franks made a good point. He said the people overwhelmingly voted for democrats in November endorsing their agenda which includes healthcare reform with a public option. To try to take this out to appease republicans would be to ignore this mandate. He said that is not how democracy works. I agree. I didn't work hard to vote these people in only to have th issues I care about watered down with republican obstructionism.

The republicans are the ones who now have to be bipartisan since they are in the minority, not the other way around.

Why are we even worried about the Republicans? They won’t vote for this no matter how much we water it down. I am angry at the President and the leadership for not first starting from the position of Single Payer then negotiating down to Public Option. Since we are here though, there is no going back – we’ll never get Single Payer. But it has to stop here, we can’t lose the Public Option, and this fight is not even with the Republicans. It’s time the Democrats (especially the Blue Dogs) heard the voice of the people that put them there and not the whiners of the town halls. The progressives in this country want the Public Option and we have the electoral momentum and strength on our side. If any in Democrat in the 111th congress votes against the Public Option they should be primaried out in 2010/2012.