Who’s getting tired of all the ads that are calling the proposals for Health Care reform “Socialized Medicine”? Even the most liberal approach to the reforms “Single Payer” is not at all socialized medicine. At most, it might me considered “socialized payment” or “socialized administration”. None of the plans call for socialized medicine, if you are one that falls for this misinformation then the Insurance Companies are getting just what they want from you.

A more realistic example of socialized medicine would be the British System, in which the hospitals are run by the government and the doctors are on the payroll of the government. Another example closer to home would be the VA in which the government provides the hospitals and the doctors to vets. What is being proposed here “Single Payer or a Government Option” is a system in which the federal program only takes the place of the insurance company and pays the bills to the doctors or the hospitals. This program is more analogous to the Canadian and French systems. The beauty of this program is that it takes away the insanity that doctors have to go thru in dealing with hundreds of separate carriers and it provides coverage for everyone regardless of pre-existing conditions.

Do you really have a personal relationship with your insurance provider today? Do you even have a choice in which carrier you get? Most people don’t, they have to take whatever carrier their company provides for them. And then, once they take the carrier that is provided, they usually have to pick a doctor that is on the plan that the company offers. I don’t know about you, but that doesn’t sound like a lot of free choice to me. You are being lied to by Insurance Companies. Single Payer will provide more choice and more cost savings to the average household. The only group that will suffer form this are the Insurance Carriers, and they will tell you every lie they can to stop it from being implemented. I don’t have a lot of sympathy for these companies. The way I see it, they are a big reason costs have escalated and quality of care has decreased over the last 30 years.

plain: "Dude, what's with all the hating on Texas?!? First BJean and now you."

Plain I've so missed you whist on vacation. As a pro-Texan you should be thrilled that your governor suggests that your solvent state go off on its' own. Then you wouldn't have to mess with things unTexas.

Btw, you DO know that I live in Texas, right?

Right now Barney Frank is my hero. The brutal truth is needed. Finally, somebody who has the balls to stand up and address the nonsense.

Well, THIS is all I nead to hear to know that you are a very misinformed individual who's had a trip or two too many to the kool-aid bar... :biggrin:

Most of the clueless tea partiers use government services. That's a fact Jack. They come rolling up in wheelchairs, drive on the roads, and use government programs. Hypocrites that watch too much Glenn Beck and think that it's normal to rant and rave as loudly as possible.

And... you get this information from WHERE? Hmm, I was at the 4/15 Tea Party, and not only do I not (nor have I ever) received a dime in any form or fashion from the government, state or federal, but I don't have cable and don't watch Glenn Beck.

From all the people I spoke to (which was many), they too are just hard-working individuals who are sick to effin' death with the government power grab that has come hugely from this administration (though it certainly didn't start here).

You can plaster your crap statistics from here to kingdom come, but it doesn't make you right. It's something the panicked left tosses out there. But then again, they are notorious for knee-jerking their way through life with no facts to back anything up. :biggrin:

There are answers to every question, folks just have to shut up long enough to hear them. It's quite simple. when you're yelling about death panels, which is right out of a science fiction movie, it's hard to hear the facts.

Why, because the government is SO truthful and would NEVER lie?? Holy hell, politicians are KNOWN for lying. Constantly and continually. Always.

It's a little more complex that that. I have had an actual stalker before. That's just the beginning.

I can't imagine why. :ohmy:

Let's see there was Dingell's, and Peters and Schauer's ... death threats at John Dingell's son Chris, and Swastikas and nazi symbols at Schauer's ... lost of morons yelling stuff that wasn't even remotely true.

Really? Do you think the left did the same thing towards Bush in relation to the war and/or any other topic? Were you as outraged when there were death threats against him? Here, look for yourself:

Death Threats Against Bush at Protests Ignored for Years

Or are you as up in arms about the left doing this?

I bet you're not.

Well, if you read the bill, which I know you haven't, you would know that illegals aren't included in the public option. Just sayin ..

Does it SAY "all illegals will be covered"? Um, no, even the left is not THAT stupid. But what they do is say that ALL people within the United States qualify for coverage. I HAVE read that. And we all know what that means -- don't ask, don't tell. C'mon, are you really that blind?

I welcome opinions that are different from mine

Of course you do. :crying:

I wouldn't say I have the most open mind.

Seriously? lol

Texas Texas .. I don't think it would be a huge loss if they just got it over with and created their own little island.

Well, there ya go. :crying:

By the way, I LOVE this guy from your home state:

Plain I've so missed you whist on vacation. As a pro-Texan you should be thrilled that your governor suggests that your solvent state go off on its' own. Then you wouldn't have to mess with things unTexas.

So, by that premise, either you are also thrilled with Rick Perry's rhetoric, or else you are not pro-Texas. Which one is it?

Btw, you DO know that I live in Texas, right?

Almost forgot this part. Yeah, I knew you live in Texas, because one of the few points we agree on is dislike of Rick Perry (I badly wanted Kinky Friedman <I> to win).. I didn't mean to imply you were specifically hating on Texas. I just thought it was a little weird that both of you suddenly inject odd geographical attacks in the middle of a healthcare debate.

Edited August 25, 200917 yr by plain
forgot sumptin

Plum forgot you like the Kinkster. Pretty good indication that we will never be in the same ballpark, politically, so you and I have little common ground for a meaningful discussion on politics in Texas. But if you ever go to the ballpark in Arlington, give me a call.

Although I shudder at the possiility of running into Dubya there. That would be so distasteful it could ruin a perfectly good day at the park.

Right now Barney Frank is my hero.

Using "Barney Frank" and "hero" in the same sentence deserves the death penalty. AFTER torture.

HH

Said like a true wacko. Their answer to everything when they disagree with someone: hatefulness, death and destruction.

]

When are you people going to get it? You LOST. Time for some serious changes. Grow up and deal with it in a constructive way, um kay?

Said like a true wacko. Their answer to everything when they disagree with someone: hatefulness, death and destruction.

]

When are you people going to get it? You LOST. Time for some serious changes. Grow up and deal with it in a constructive way, um kay?

Hmmmm.

So lemme see.

I make a snarky little remark about Barney Frank with my digital tongue planted firmly in virtual cheek, and you are somehow able to transpose that simple sentence into me being a “true wacko” filled with “hatefulness, death and destruction”.

Huh?

That’s quite a morph. You should take advantage of your ability to take one thing and turn it into something entirely different. You should run for Congress. Or the White House.

“When are you people going to get it? You LOST.”

Huh? WHO “lost”, exactly? And what did I/we “lose”? If you’re referring to the election, hell, AMERICA has lost nearly EVERY election in the last hundred years or so.

“Grow up and deal with it in a constructive way, um kay?”

Again, I pose…. Huh?

Deal with what?

Barney Frank is an ass. He’s crooked, like MOST of the clowns in Washington, on BOTH sides of the aisle.

Hell, you could throw the names of virtually every member of congress, the judicial branch, AND the executive Branch in a hat, pick one out, and ANY of them would fit within the sentence “Using (INSERT POLITICO NAME HERE) and "hero" in the same sentence deserves the death penalty. AFTER torture.”

Barney Frank was merely the cretin MENTIONED in the passage I observed.

I’m thinking that a speedy passage of this new health “plan” might be of benefit to you, actually. If Mental Health issues are covered……

Um kay?

HH

Plum forgot you like the Kinkster. Pretty good indication that we will never be in the same ballpark, politically, so you and I have little common ground for a meaningful discussion on politics in Texas.

So, if Kinky runs on the democratic ticket (as is the rumor), we won't have much in common RE: Texas politics? I figured you'd be super supportive of whichever candidate the dems decide to run.

Said like a true wacko. Their answer to everything when they disagree with someone: hatefulness, death and destruction.

]

When are you people going to get it? You LOST. Time for some serious changes. Grow up and deal with it in a constructive way, um kay?

Er...big Barney Frank fan, are ya?

The recession has been killing the tourism industry, but it doesn't seem to be affecting Obama's family travels. Before his election, he had a private family vacation in Hawaii, his "birthplace". This summer they went on a European tour to London, Paris and Moscow. Recently, they went to Yellowstone National Park and the Grand Canyon on their Great Western vacation. Now they're off to a 20 million dollar estate on Martha's Vineyard. No wonder the American people are resentful! Most of us could only muster up "staycations" or "home beach". But if your job was going as poorly as Obama's you probably wouldn't want to be hanging around the office much either. Man, how this guy loves to $$$$$spend$$$$$ OUR money!!!!!

Did you know that state and local governments have added 110,000 people to their payrolls. A report from the Nelson A Rockefeller Inst. of Government based on federal data credited the stability of government employment to the "stimulus", which insured unionized public employees would remain fat, happy and employed while private-sector workers not represented by lobbyists in Washington were left to suffer the brunt of the recession. And remember that those gov. workers are better compensated than people who do comparable work for private companies. We need less government jobs, not more. How much more can the people afford?????!!

No, sorry dude, if Kinky ran again, no matter which party he graced his presence with, I wouldn't vote for him. I might consider his bottled salsa, but that's the best I can do.

patty you never cease to amaze. Obama's trips abroad are in representation of our country. You know, the United

States of America. Some of you got so used to George W's lack of meaningful, useful interaction with foreign countries, you've forgotten, if you ever did know, how beneficial it can be to our well-being as a nation.

As for his other so-called "vacations" I don't think you have taken into consideration that in the first 100 days in office, Obama had spent more time actually working - being a productive president - than Dubya did in the first 4 years of his presidency. So where were you then? I remember the first year he was in office (beginning in January if I am correct) that he took the entire month of August off. Retreated to his little ranch in Tejas which the Americans paid major bucks to convert to a safe haven for him and his family. Why weren't you bellyaching about that expenditure?

You obviously operate with such a double standard that it is laughable. And some LBT folks make claims that I am bad about being biased. You make me look like a piker.

Btw, may I ask why you put the term "birthplace" in quotation marks when you referred to Hawaii as the place where President Obama was born? Are you one of those transparently nutty "birthers"? :thumbdown:

The recession has been killing the tourism industry, but it doesn't seem to be affecting Obama's family travels. Before his election, he had a private family vacation in Hawaii, his "birthplace". This summer they went on a European tour to London, Paris and Moscow. Recently, they went to Yellowstone National Park and the Grand Canyon on their Great Western vacation. Now they're off to a 20 million dollar estate on Martha's Vineyard. No wonder the American people are resentful! Most of us could only muster up "staycations" or "home beach". But if your job was going as poorly as Obama's you probably wouldn't want to be hanging around the office much either. Man, how this guy loves to $$$$$spend$$$$$ OUR money!!!!!

Patty, I don't mean this as harsh as it sounds, but c'mon. I have a lot of problems with President Obama's policies, but I don't really have a problem with his vacations. Blindly attacking EVERYTHING about the president weakens your credibility when you DO have a good point. Think about the liberals & George Bush......some liberals had valid points, but when you have loons griping about every little thing, it drowns out the ones that make sense.

No, sorry dude, if Kinky ran again, no matter which party he graced his presence with, I wouldn't vote for him

Respectfully, I don't believe you. I think if he is the dem's nominee, you'll vote for him. What is your alternative? Will you vote for Kay Bailey or Perry?

patty you never cease to amaze. Obama's trips abroad are in representation of our country. You know, the United

States of America. Some of you got so used to George W's lack of meaningful, useful interaction with foreign countries, you've forgotten, if you ever did know, how beneficial it can be to our well-being as a nation.

This cracks me up. One die-hard party member scolding another die hard party member. BJean, I wish you'd learn that justifying Obama's actions by comparing them to Bush is not really the strongest course. Heck, pretty soon the Obama sloan might be switched from "change you can believe in" to "not as bad as Bush".

As for his other so-called "vacations" I don't think you have taken into consideration that in the first 100 days in office, Obama had spent more time actually working - being a productive president - than Dubya did in the first 4 years of his presidency.

Really? Bush didn't spend 100 days working in 4 YEARS? That's reasonable.....Did you learn that fact from watching Oliver Stone movies?

You obviously operate with such a double standard that it is laughable. And some LBT folks make claims that I am bad about being biased. You make me look like a piker.

Again, I gotta laugh. You accusing Patty of being one-sided is the height of irony. It's like me calling somebody "fat"

You have such a good sense of humor, plain. But your condescending attitude really wears thin.

You honestly think that Kinky is the best person for the job? Any job? Good luck with that.

AnnNo, you're quite wrong about me. You proclaim that I am a die-hard Democrat who has no common sense or ability to choose the kind of candidate that I believe can do a good job and make a difference, beyond the party line. Just because you disagree with everything I say, you've compartmentalized me and well, I guess I just really wish you'd stick to the issues instead of trying to put a label on either me or pattyg.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this being a moderator thing has for some unknown reason gone to your head. It seems to make you think you can go about correcting everybody's posts and making folks feel bad for saying what they believe. No, I haven't observed this in your recent posts necessarily, however I have been noticing it here and there and it is really weird.

I know you don't care if you're liked but you gotta understand that we don't care if you like us either. We have every right to say what we think. You can disagree all you want, but dude, get over yourself. Correcting us is pretty silly. Even I was asked to be a moderator. Hit don't make you special or more intelligent or better able to use logic or reason than everybody else. Really.

You have such a good sense of humor, plain. But your condescending attitude really wears thin.

I don't think I'm condescending. But hey, maybe ALL condescending people thing that.

You honestly think that Kinky is the best person for the job? Any job? Good luck with that.

Well, I know I like him for the job better than Perry or Hutchison. We'll see whho else throws their hat in the ring, but so far....Kinky looks good for the job to me.

AnnNo, you're quite wrong about me. You proclaim that I am a die-hard Democrat who has no common sense or ability to choose the kind of candidate that I believe can do a good job and make a difference, beyond the party line.

Well....yeah, I do think that. Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary so far. You're not the only one I think that about, BTW

I guess I just really wish you'd stick to the issues instead of trying to put a label on either me or pattyg.

There's some more o' that irony!

I have a sneaking suspicion that this being a moderator thing has for some unknown reason gone to your head.

Thanks for showing me how to stick to the issues. This is the healthcare thread, right? Or did I stumble onto the "Is plain a jackass" thread?

It seems to make you think you can go about correcting everybody's posts and making folks feel bad for saying what they believe. No, I haven't observed this in your recent posts necessarily, however I have been noticing it here and there and it is really weird.

First you say I "go about correcting everybody's posts", but then you go on to say you "haven't observed this in [my] recent posts necessarily". So which is it? If you can show me 1 (one) example of me correcting somebody's post, then I will explain and apologize.

I know you don't care if you're liked but you gotta understand that we don't care if you like us either.

What are you talking about? I'm totally lost on what point you're trying to make

We have every right to say what we think.

That's true. In fact, I support your right to say what you think. If I truly didn't care, I wouldn't post. However, it helps if I can understand what the hell you're talking about.

You can disagree all you want, but dude, get over yourself. Correcting us is pretty silly.

Again, plz show me where I've corrected somebody. Or how this relates to healthcare (didn't you recently wish I'd stick to the issues?).

Even I was asked to be a moderator. Hit don't make you special or more intelligent or better able to use logic or reason than everybody else. Really.

Er......ok.