Just curious has anyone in here tried to lose the weight on the keto diet first? And lost a lot and didn't have the surgery ?

The oils I buy are olive, coconut, peanut, and real butter. Milk, yogurt, cottage cheese are all full fat.

I plan on settling into a low carb lifestyle... not really full keto, but will aim for 65g/day. I've tried before, but feel my sleeve will make it possible.

4 hours ago, IveGotThePower said:

I was stalling for about 6 weeks and started Keto 2 weeks ago. It helped me with satiety and I broke the stall and lost 3 lbs. I feel very satisfied eating keto. But I am still reading and weighing the types of fats I want to include. Keto emphasises a lot of saturated fats. And new evidence has come to light that saturated fat is not as bad as we were led to believe, although many reputable sources encourage a higher percentage of poly and mono unsaturated fats. Still researching, but I think there is definitely something good about adding fat to our diet. I look forward to hearing others' thoughts and experiences.

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Yeah I notice in a lot of the keto groups on facebook people go nuts on the fat. like I eat bacon but in moderation. Most of my daily fat just comes in the form of cream in my coffee, other than that I am pretty lean.

Anyone experience dumping with the high fat in a keto diet?

Is Keto basically a new age name for the Atkins diet? It sounds awfully familiar, high fat low carb, body in ketosis.....

With Keto and sleeve do you monitor more of your calorie count or focus more on fat & protein/g consumption? Because in reading the Reddit thread, people don't have restrictive stomachs like we do

5 hours ago, Afrikanaaa said:

With Keto and sleeve do you monitor more of your calorie count or focus more on fat & protein/g consumption? Because in reading the Reddit thread, people don't have restrictive stomachs like we do

You certainly want to keep an eye on your calories as you move on from losing into maintenance and beyond. We often see people come through these forums who proudly proclaim that they do "full fat everything", which works well early on when capacity is minimal but then the struggle with regain later if they let their calories get away from them.

From a practical perspective, the clinical use for a high fat/low carbohydrate diet is for non-WLS gastrectomy patients (from cancer or gastroparesis, typically) who need to minimize their weight loss and ultimately gain back lost weight, so there is weight gain built into the diet that you need to counter.

13 hours ago, Christina.Rose said:

Is Keto basically a new age name for the Atkins diet? It sounds awfully familiar, high fat low carb, body in ketosis.....

Yes. There are legions of people out there who have tried and failed at Atkins diets over the years who need to be convinced that there is something new to spend their money on. Plus, there's a new generation of dieters to whom Atkins is just too "old school", so a new name and a new scientific gloss and you get a new diet. That's marketing at its' best.

Much like some restaurants that will inject steam into their day old dinner rolls to make them "fresh baked". Same thing.

17 minutes ago, RickM said:

Yes. There are legions of people out there who have tried and failed at Atkins diets over the years who need to be convinced that there is something new to spend their money on. Plus, there's a new generation of dieters to whom Atkins is just too "old school", so a new name and a new scientific gloss and you get a new diet. That's marketing at its' best.

Much like some restaurants that will inject steam into their day old dinner rolls to make them "fresh baked". Same thing.

I dunno about you but I hate that pesky science..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

A period of low carbohydrate ketogenic diet may help to control hunger and may improve fat oxidative metabolism and therefore reduce body weight. Furthermore new kinds of ketogenic diets using meals that mimic carbohydrate rich foods could improve the compliance to the diet. Attention should be paid to patient’s renal function and to the transition phase from ketogenic diet to a normal diet that should be gradual and well controlled. The duration of ketogenic diet may range from a minimum (to induce the physiological ketosis) of 2–3 weeks to a maximum (following a general precautionary principle) of many months (6–12 months). Correctly understood the ketogenic diet can be a useful tool to treat obesity in the hands of the physician.

Looking for actual valid scientific studies that show the correlation between high saturated fat and low saturated fat in long term heart health if anyone comes across any. The information I am finding so far is that high saturated fat has a small or no impact on heart disease (or at least none found yet), and higher unsaturated fat is proven to decrease heart disease. There is so much inaccurate information out there that I am trying to stick to proven studies. Been thinking about Mediterranean Keto, but that basically takes a proven heart healthy diet and removes a large portion (carbs), so how do we know if it would still yield the health benefits?

I was stalling for about 6 weeks and started Keto 2 weeks ago. It helped me with satiety and I broke the stall and lost 3 lbs. I feel very satisfied eating keto. But I am still reading and weighing the types of fats I want to include. Keto emphasises a lot of saturated fats. And new evidence has come to light that saturated fat is not as bad as we were led to believe, although many reputable sources encourage a higher percentage of poly and mono unsaturated fats. Still researching, but I think there is definitely something good about adding fat to our diet. I look forward to hearing others' thoughts and experiences.

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I agree about adding fat to our diets. Healthy fats are good for you and help you feel satisfied. They also help with energy when following a low carb diet.
I don't buy reduced fat products, they replace fat with sugar. With all these types of products on the market, Americans keep getting fatter. Ever wonder why?
Sugar is killing us..along with the chemicals put into foods.
I try to primarily eat food that either walked on the ground or grew out of the ground. I do pretty good. I'm not perfect though, once in awhile I will have something sweet... Sweets are my downfall.
I've just started my pre op diet though, so no sweets at all except my protein drinks. I don't eat SF anything, it makes me crave sugar.

2 hours ago, PatientEleventyBillion said:

I dunno about you but I hate that pesky science..

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

There are an awful lot of "may"s and "could"s in there. The problem that we have is that the science that we currently see comes from the same sources that also told us how essential low fat and low dietary cholesterol was. The science then was just as good as it is today, but ultimately what we see are small elements of a much larger whole - there was nothing fundamentally wrong with the science on fats and cholesterol in the limited cases that were studied, but it ultimately didn't translate as a big a deal in the general case. Likewise, as the pendulum has swung back to the low carb regime (as it has done several times over the past century - lather, rinse, repeat...) there is a lot of work that applies to similarly limited cases - particularly diabetics and the insulin resistent who have always benefited from such diets even when they weren't "in" - that has questionable application in the general case. Looking from the top down of how these diets work in the long term - 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, etc., they don't show any better success rate than any other diet over the years - about 5% success in the absence of WLS. With WLS, there isn't much objective work out there to suggest that one diet works better than any other.

Go with whatever diet one likes - if one has a specific morbidity that requires specific limitations, then go with them, whether they be limits on carbohydrates in general or sugars specifically, fats, dietary cholesterol, gluten, fiber, protein, nuts, dairy, etc. - there is a lot to be gained from good dietary science (see your local RD!) but if one is looking for a one-size-fits-all magic bullet, keep looking - or keep jumping on whatever is trendy. You need to find something that you can stick with for the rest of your life that will help you control your weight and hopefully provide adequate nutrition to minimize the need for pills.

6 hours ago, RickM said:

There are an awful lot of "may"s and "could"s in there. The problem that we have is that the science that we currently see comes from the same sources that also told us how essential low fat and low dietary cholesterol was. The science then was just as good as it is today, but ultimately what we see are small elements of a much larger whole - there was nothing fundamentally wrong with the science on fats and cholesterol in the limited cases that were studied, but it ultimately didn't translate as a big a deal in the general case. Likewise, as the pendulum has swung back to the low carb regime (as it has done several times over the past century - lather, rinse, repeat...) there is a lot of work that applies to similarly limited cases - particularly diabetics and the insulin resistent who have always benefited from such diets even when they weren't "in" - that has questionable application in the general case. Looking from the top down of how these diets work in the long term - 1 year, 2 years, 5 years, etc., they don't show any better success rate than any other diet over the years - about 5% success in the absence of WLS. With WLS, there isn't much objective work out there to suggest that one diet works better than any other.

Go with whatever diet one likes - if one has a specific morbidity that requires specific limitations, then go with them, whether they be limits on carbohydrates in general or sugars specifically, fats, dietary cholesterol, gluten, Fiber, Protein, nuts, dairy, etc. - there is a lot to be gained from good dietary science (see your local RD!) but if one is looking for a one-size-fits-all magic bullet, keep looking - or keep jumping on whatever is trendy. You need to find something that you can stick with for the rest of your life that will help you control your weight and hopefully provide adequate nutrition to minimize the need for pills.

That's a nice wall of text there but you didn't refute a single thing in this paper, nor did you substantiate your erroneous claim of "scientific gloss" when it's clear the keto diet is getting quite positive response from the scientific community, especially concerning weight loss and WLS. All you did was move the goalposts with a projecting statement of: "one diet works better than the other". Recall that this is your argument in trashing a diet without any scientific basis.

Edited April 13, 20179 yr by PatientEleventyBillion

That's a nice wall of text there but you didn't refute a single thing in this paper, nor did you substantiate your erroneous claim of "scientific gloss" when it's clear the keto diet is getting quite positive response from the scientific community, especially concerning weight loss and WLS. All you did was move the goalposts with a projecting statement of: "one diet works better than the other". Recall that this is your argument in trashing a diet without any scientific basis.

I read no trashing.. He's just stating a simple truth about research.

Nutritional research keeps advancing so nothing is hard and fast. Research that would have nailed the keto diet (7 countries study) was thrown out years later by further research. Just like that, we had to stop blaming eggs for heart attacks after blaming them for years.

Basically, if it works for you, keep doing it. But don't use yourself as metabolic standard for everyone else. It doesn't work in some others.

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16 minutes ago, Middus said:

I read no trashing.. He's just stating a simple truth about research.

Nutritional research keeps advancing so nothing is hard and fast. Research that would have nailed the keto diet (7 countries study) was thrown out years later by further research. Just like that, we had to stop blaming eggs for heart attacks after blaming them for years.

Basically, if it works for you, keep doing it. But don't use yourself as metabolic standard for everyone else. It doesn't work in some others.

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So what's your issue with what I cited?

And to the bold who's doing that? Seems like conjuring imaginary demons to battle.

Well, I did not make anything 'bold'...

I merely typed and tried posting (only to be shown a 'cannot reach server' message).. I didn't even know the comment was eventually posted.

In any case, It is an advice to people in general not to just you..

I am just tired of people jumping on every research piece that come out as if it is some gospel truth or some hard set principle.

As for the 'demonology' part, it is still a poorly researched field. I will get back to you as soon as there is more data.. [emoji4]

Edited April 13, 20179 yr by Middus