I was just wondering what everyone thinks about the proposed changes in the laws for people that are here illegally. Do you think they should be given amnesty and legal status? Deported? What about their children who are born here and therefore are U.S. citizens? It just seems to me that to start out your life in a new country by breaking it's laws isn't right. What do you all think?

<p>I don't think all of the illegals who come here come to live off of us. Many of them come here to work hard and better their living situations. These kind of comments just seem hateful to me. I wonder what the statistics are on this matter. Have any of the persons making this claim done the research? I think these types of comments are what inspires such hatred towards these people. Not all of them come to live off of us. I think their modivation for coming here is for a better life. And most of them are not drug dealers, either. So now every illegal is a drug dealer, too?</p>

Hi, Jasmine you are right. A lot of illegals do bloody hard work/jobs that others would not touch. They do add to keeping the wheel turning by their small place in the scheme of things. Susannah

It seems to me that the crux of the problem is that our anger and bad attitude toward illegals (from Mexico, mostly) is directed at the illegals themselves. Our country has, by its' actions or lack of action, made our country a very attractive place for illegal aliens from Mexico to come for a better life.

It isn't surprising that Americans are angry. We should be angry. We should be angry that in order for us to get the medical care we need, we must pay through the nose for insurance and then the insurers exert control over our medical care. The insurance companies control our medical care even to the point of denying us medical care and medicines when they choose to, because our government lets them get away with it. However illegal aliens have the right to go to most hospitals and some health centers to receive medical care in spite of the fact that they have no insurance. So of course we are paying for ourselves, and indirectly for them, since they aren't compelled to have insurance to get medical care. That isn't fair and it isn't right.

We pay a very significant portion of our salaries in taxes to provide for the education of American children. However, their children can attend school without their parents paying property taxes. How is that fair? Their children are often eligible for scholarships too, so our kids are competing with them for the available scholarships. In some cases that makes us mad because many of the Mexican students are working so hard for a better life and a better education, they're tough competitors.

The list goes on, but you get the picture. The thing is that we shouldn't be all up in arms and pissed off at Mexican illegal aliens. We need to be furious with the government that has caused and even encouraged this situation.

If we would all ban together and raise hell with Congress and the President and insist that the policies and laws either change or be enforced, we could make it happen. But honestly getting mad at people for coming here, even illegally, when we have encouraged it and made it a climate conducive to their better lifestyles, just doesn't make any sense.

As for the language situation, there again our government and big business has provided a way and means for Mexicans to live in this country without needing to learn the language. Think about it: press 1 for Spanish, Spanish television and radio programming, Spanish billboards and signage, etc. English is difficult, it takes time to learn and as someone earlier pointed out, there is fear of discrimination (and rightfully so!) if they move around outside their comfort zone, so they are discouraged to get fully integrated into our society.

We shouldn't be complaining about the illegal aliens who are fleeing a corrupt government and poverty. We should be doing something about insisting that the people who have encouraged the influx of illegals in this country to stop making it such a comfortable refuge for them.

P.S. Insinuating that most of the illegal aliens who come over are drug dealers just doesn't make any sense, although I am sure we have also made that a lucrative business for some of them.

<p>I don't think all of the illegals who come here come to live off of us. Many of them come here to work hard and better their living situations. These kind of comments just seem hateful to me. I wonder what the statistics are on this matter. Have any of the persons making this claim done the research? I think these types of comments are what inspires such hatred towards these people. Not all of them come to live off of us. I think their modivation for coming here is for a better life. And most of them are not drug dealers, either. So now every illegal is a drug dealer, too?</p>

Hi, Jasmine you are right. A lot of illegals do bloody hard work/jobs that others would not touch. They do add to keeping the wheel turning by their small place in the scheme of things. Susannah

Actually, I have done tons of research on this. Have you?

No they are not all drug dealers. I am giving you the truths just from a Mexican Border Patrolman. Not all illegal aliens are from Mexico. And to assume that is what people mean when they talk about illegal aliens is quite prejudice. What makes you think people are refering to just mexicans?

The reason they do most of the crap work here in america is because that is usually the work that is paid cash under the table. Its not because they like manual labor or are willing to do crap work. Its because they can't continue to skirt the system usually if they try for higher paying jobs. Don't blind yourself. Do some research. You might be surprised at what you find.

It seems to me that the crux of the problem is that our anger and bad attitude toward illegals (from Mexico, mostly) is directed at the illegals themselves. Our country has, by its' actions or lack of action, made our country a very attractive place for illegal aliens from Mexico to come for a better life.

It isn't surprising that Americans are angry. We should be angry. We should be angry that in order for us to get the medical care we need, we must pay through the nose for insurance and then the insurers exert control over our medical care. The insurance companies control our medical care even to the point of denying us medical care and medicines when they choose to, because our government lets them get away with it. However illegal aliens have the right to go to most hospitals and some health centers to receive medical care in spite of the fact that they have no insurance. So of course we are paying for ourselves, and indirectly for them, since they aren't compelled to have insurance to get medical care. That isn't fair and it isn't right.

We pay a very significant portion of our salaries in taxes to provide for the education of American children. However, their children can attend school without their parents paying property taxes. How is that fair? Their children are often eligible for scholarships too, so our kids are competing with them for the available scholarships. In some cases that makes us mad because many of the Mexican students are working so hard for a better life and a better education, they're tough competitors.

The list goes on, but you get the picture. The thing is that we shouldn't be all up in arms and pissed off at Mexican illegal aliens. We need to be furious with the government that has caused and even encouraged this situation.

If we would all ban together and raise hell with Congress and the President and insist that the policies and laws either change or be enforced, we could make it happen. But honestly getting mad at people for coming here, even illegally, when we have encouraged it and made it a climate conducive to their better lifestyles, just doesn't make any sense.

As for the language situation, there again our government and big business has provided a way and means for Mexicans to live in this country without needing to learn the language. Think about it: press 1 for Spanish, Spanish television and radio programming, Spanish billboards and signage, etc. English is difficult, it takes time to learn and as someone earlier pointed out, there is fear of discrimination (and rightfully so!) if they move around outside their comfort zone, so they are discouraged to get fully integrated into our society.

We shouldn't be complaining about the illegal aliens who are fleeing a corrupt government and poverty. We should be doing something about insisting that the people who have encouraged the influx of illegals in this country to stop making it such a comfortable refuge for them.

P.S. Insinuating that most of the illegal aliens who come over are drug dealers just doesn't make any sense, although I am sure we have also made that a lucrative business for some of them.

BJean, this is a very well thought out and put response to all of this. It needs to be fault on both levels, and I agree with you. We need to enforce the laws we have, or change them and enforce them. Either way we need to stop the hemorage of other countries into our country.

And we need to stop making so many concessions for the illegal immigrants into this country. If we make it more comfortable and easier for them to break the law, then they will.

As for the drug dealer comment, again, I am just passing along the news from a border patrolman. I am not stating that all illegal aliens from mexico are drug dealers, just the finding that most of those caught are single men trafficing drugs. It could be that families are just harder to catch. Who knows. But you are right...our open borders have made it a lucrative business. Ever seen cheech and chong? They have a scene in one of their movies (I forget which....i was always too drunk when I was watching it LOL) where INS comes and picks them all up. They are happy cause they get a free trip home and a meal, then they come right back over. I question how much of this is absed on reality. Usually comedy is based on all too familiar incidents.

The majority of illegal aliens coming into this country from Mexico are Mexican - I think. I haven't queried a border patrolman, but it's pretty obvious. And that don't make me prejudiced.

Early on in this thread I brought out the point about how the terrorists of 9-11 entered this country. That don't make me prejudiced against Moslems either.

Frankly some of the Spanish-only Mexicans who worked on my house and in building this neighborhood were far better workers than some of the English speaking ones. But I don't think you can categorize either English speaking or Spanish speaking workers that way until there have been some serious scientific studies on the subject. That can't happen very easily since many of the Spanish speaking workers may possibly be illegally in this country and not real quick to participate in any scientific studies. Besides they're busy working.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like having millions of illegal aliens living and soaking up government subsidized benefits in this country. But I sure don't blame them for taking advantage of the situation WE created.

The majority of illegal aliens coming into this country from Mexico are Mexican - I think. I haven't queried a border patrolman, but it's pretty obvious. And that don't make me prejudiced.

Early on in this thread I brought out the point about how the terrorists of 9-11 entered this country. That don't make me prejudiced against Moslems either.

Frankly some of the Spanish-only Mexicans who worked on my house and in building this neighborhood were far better workers than some of the English speaking ones. But I don't think you can categorize either English speaking or Spanish speaking workers that way until there have been some serious scientific studies on the subject. That can't happen very easily since many of the Spanish speaking workers may possibly be illegally in this country and not real quick to participate in any scientific studies. Besides they're busy working.

Don't get me wrong - I don't like having millions of illegal aliens living and soaking up government subsidized benefits in this country. But I sure don't blame them for taking advantage of the situation WE created.

The prejudice comment is directed towards those who think we are just speaking of mexicans when we refer to illegal aliens. there are a great number of islanders, cubans, haitians, chinese, koreans, french, spanish, germans, norwegians, indonesians, etc. Until a specific group is mentioned (such as in the border patrolman situation and speaking specifically about mexicans) it is not right to assume that we are just speaking about one group. To do so leaves out all of the other issues we face with so many other nationalities.

But, it must be said that the country with the biggest percentage of illegals here is Mexico. And their concentrated numbers in certain border towns have left those town in financial ruin.

:heh: :heh: :heh: :heh: :heh:

Yup, I've seen "Up in Smoke" and other Cheech and Chong flicks. And yup I agree that the story lines were probably based on real life.

By the way, for 6.5 yrs. I lived very close (30 miles) from the Mexican border. Believe me, we were exposed to all sides of the issue. I'm just way mad at our government and the businesses in this country that have allowed our borders to function like a sieve and then structured it so that we're not only handing them towels as they come across, we continue handing them all kinds of stuff free, so that they can stay and be relatively comfortable. I absolutely do not begrudge people trying to benefit from the abundance in this fabulous country of ours, but there's no excuse for us turning our heads and allowing it to happen at the expense of the American taxpayer. And it didn't happen overnight - it's been going on since Cheech Marin and Tommy Chong were very young entrepreneurs.

yes it has. we must make changes, and force our govt to enforce the rules we have set forth. maybe then we can sort out our own problems while not having to worry about the problems of so many other countries.

Yeah and you and I both probably have ocean front property in New Mexico we would like to sell too. (about as likely as making the government do our bidding)

But you are right!

don't live with a defeatist attitude. if you continue to vote, changes will happen. The only way to change the govt is to have faith in the govt. Be unhappy with the people in it if you must, but you can change that.

No they are not all drug dealers. I am giving you the truths just from a Mexican Border Patrolman. Not all illegal aliens are from Mexico. And to assume that is what people mean when they talk about illegal aliens is quite prejudice. What makes you think people are refering to just mexicans?

The reason they do most of the crap work here in america is because that is usually the work that is paid cash under the table. Its not because they like manual labor or are willing to do crap work. Its because they can't continue to skirt the system usually if they try for higher paying jobs. Don't blind yourself. Do some research. You might be surprised at what you find.

So you are giving us heresay from one person. OK. Yes, I do think it is prejudice as well, to assume they are all from Mexico. But just in this thread, many people have referred them to be. I can go back and refer to specific posts, if you'd like.

And, to assume that the reason they do all of the crap work to get over on the system, is again, just an assumption. I do not expect you to understand, since you probably have never been exposed to this community of people. Yes, I know you've done charity work. I have gotten that from many of your posts. That's why I am actually surprised at the tone of your posts regarding this issue. I actually agree with most of what you say in your posts.

Oh well, I guess we can just agree to disagree. Thanks for your response, though.

gosh Funny, if only it were true! I always vote. It isn't about the "government" per se. With this administration, it's all about capitalism and big business. I have always thought capitalism is the best thing for our country, but I'm beginning to wonder if the pendulum has swung too far one way and big business has come to own us all. I feel hamstrung by the insurance industry. It affects most of the important aspects of my life. They have much better lobbyists than I. So I keep paying the premiums and being disgusted with how they control me.

Defeatist? Me? Well, I am not a defeatist I don't think. I believe I am a realist. I've worked in the government - been a legislative aide, worked for an Attorney General, DH working for the government, etc., I think I have a good grasp of how things really get done in government.

Although I admit that when our electronic voting machines are haywire and we have dangling chads and disenfranchised voters in many states, it's hard not to feel a little defeated. I'll still vote and I'll still keep some faith that we can make a difference, but realistically I believe that big business controls most everything in the government these days.

But thanks for the encouraging words!

Jasmine....(hijacking the thread here for a minute)

I just noticed the line under your avatar...."I am what I eat". I once told my daughter if that's true, then she is fast, cheap, and easy....LOL

Carlene... is your fast food post anything at all like DISCUSSING CHEESE??????????