I was just wondering what everyone thinks about the proposed changes in the laws for people that are here illegally. Do you think they should be given amnesty and legal status? Deported? What about their children who are born here and therefore are U.S. citizens? It just seems to me that to start out your life in a new country by breaking it's laws isn't right. What do you all think?

I liked your post, Eva. I thought that it was much more nuanced than that other one by that guy who kept talking about his gonads.

By the way, have a wonderful weekend enjoying Champagne and smokes, BJean.

I'm Cuban as I mentioned before, therefore an immigrant, I came to this country legally and followed all the necessary process and I've been an American Citizen for many years, therefore suffering many of the problems that the Mexican and many other countries have with poverty and some with political prosecution as I did in Cuba, I completely relate with their feelings in so many things, however, we must do it legally........the most important statement you made was the following and I agree with it 150%...

"Somebody is going to cross that border with some kind of weapon of mass destruction and set it off in a major American city"

I have quite a few points to make here.

-Mexicans do not raise my children or wash my house. I do those things.

- I grow my own vegetables. Mexicans do not grow them for me.

-There were no immigration laws when the Pilgrims landed so everyone here is not an illegal.

- People who break laws are CRIMINALS. Sugar coat it any way you want to but that is the bottom line.

- ENGLISH is the national language of our country. You speak whatever language you want but don't expect me or my children to learn Spanish because a bunch of criminals have invaded our country. My daughter is fluent in French by the way because it is a language she chose to learn.

She was not forced to speak it because others were too lazy or illiterate to learn the language of the country that they are residing in.

- Education is so important for our children. Reading, writing, math, grammar, spelling, and science are so necessary for all children to learn. No child born in America should be forced into a Spanish speaking class because there is no room anywhere else. That is ridiculous. English speaking children belong in English speaking classes unless they choose to be a class which is taught in a language other than English. The fact that children who don't speak Spanish are being put in classes taught in Spanish is horrible and should not be happening.

OK, I am getting off my soap box now!!!

Oh and by the way, Charlie Daniels does seem to mention gonads quite a bit doesn't he, Green? LOL. I noticed that too. I do agree with him, though, that quite a few politicians need to grow a set!

Good post, mrspruett. I agree with you. But I do kinda wish I had had someone to raise my children when they were small and to clean my house, also.... :tired

Eva, your post was obviously heartfelt. Except that I do wonder if you really think it is all as funny as you seemed to be saying that it is.

The situation is really pretty much as you said, but that doesn't make it right. No one can blame anyone from other countries from wanting to come here for a better life. But it is unfair that some people sneak into the country and other people have to jump through hoops to get here. The ones who are sneaking in are breaking our laws and the other people have to go strictly by the book in everything they do. It isn't fair to those who are willing to follow the letter of the law for our government to allow some people to sneak in and allow them to stay, but bar others from moving here. We should either have open borders for everybody or we go by the rules. The way it is now is causing major probems.

Unfortunately things could wind up being very ugly unless our laws are strictly enforced or they change them. If Americans resort to violence over this issue, it would not be a laughing matter for any of us.

I think that what Eva is trying to point out is that the very people who are loathed by so many for coming here illegally, are the very people who contribute to American lives every day.

I say, if you are so hell bent on blaming these people, instead of the employers who hire them, then yes, grow your own vegetables. Don't go to fast food places that supply such vegetables on their burgers and so forth. (And I find it hard to believe that any person that has posted on this thread has not contributed to this problem by purchasing an item at a fast food place that has lettuce in it).

I'm not in support of being extreme, but if people want to make extreme statements, such as us being "invaded", then so be it.

And yes, any person that brakes any law is a CRIMINAL. Including traffic laws. Lets see how many of us hasn't received a ticket. Then I guess I am a CRIMINAL for receiving a ticket.

I agree about learning to speak English. I agree that we all must pay taxes. I agree that our children should not be subjected to spanish only classes. But instead of saying that we are being invaded like a plague by these people, why not blame the government for allowing all of this to happen?

The illegal immigrants are not standing and rioting trying to force us to accomidate their language. We have chosen to do so. We were not forced by law. Quote to me a law that has required us to do so.

And who are we to say that the Native Americans did not have any immigration laws in place before the Pilgrims came here? They probably did, we just chose to ignore them and develope our own.

Ok, I'll get off of MY soap box now.

Jasmine you make an excellent point - don't blame people for wanting to come here and for coming here illegally since our government and we have encouraged it for decades by not enforcing the laws and for refusing to do some of the menial jobs that they are willing to do.

This should be a major campaign issue in the 2008 election. Unless a candidate has a good, acceptable, solid plan to fix this problem, we should refuse to vote for him/her.

jasmine- I was responding to a previous post in which someone stated we should "force our kids to learn stuff" in reference to people not learning the English language. Yes, I used to eat lettuce on fast food ( when I ate fast food) but the e-coli contamination scared me out of my wits. I don't think the rich farmers who hire illegals provide them with such a great existence. I hate to patronize business owners who use illegals and I try very hard not to. NO illegals in my area pick veggies for a living. This is just not the true picture. In some states, I am sure it may be the case.

In my area ( I am in Indiana), most illegals work in factories along side American citizens. In fact, factories in our area are frequently "swept" for illegal workers and they are fired and reported to the immigration service but in a few weeks more have taken their place. I guess that I am lucky that I do not live in a border state. I still have a local hospital who has an emergency room and has not been sent into bankruptcy by servicing only people who cannot pay. The government is most assuredly to blame for the sad situation that we are in. However, I do not appreciate being told that MY children are lazy because they don't choose to learn Spanish. They know the language of the country they are living in as well as others they CHOOSE to learn.

The numbers of illegals who are in our country DO constitute an invasion ( a large scale one at that).

I don't believe anyone said that there was a law forcing us to learn Spanish. If there was such a post, I missed it. It is our choice and many of us choose not to learn Spanish. Some of us prefer to learn French, German, Portuguese, whatever. I, personally, took 4 years of Spanish in high school but it has been so very long ago that I remember very little LOL. This was long before there was this major political debate regarding illegals. I took it because I chose to.

I get so sick of being politically correct and it is nice to be able to speak our minds on a hot topic like this and debate each side. I love LBT and I love this forum.

Next?

jasmine- I was responding to a previous post in which someone stated we should "force our kids to learn stuff" in reference to people not learning the English language.

I completely agree. We shouldn't force our kids to learn stuff unless we want to make them a better human being.

However, I do not appreciate being told that MY children are lazy because they don't choose to learn Spanish.

Who told you you were lazy because of this? That's very unfortunate.

The numbers of illegals who are in our country DO constitute an invasion ( a large scale one at that).

So I guess based on this analysis, the Katrina Refugees "invaded" Texas, as well.

I don't believe anyone said that there was a law forcing us to learn Spanish. If there was such a post, I missed it.

Next?

I based this statement on yours:

You speak whatever language you want but don't expect me or my children to learn Spanish because a bunch of criminals have invaded our country.

By the way, no one expects you to, whatever gave you that impression?

-My children learn enough "stuff". They both have 4.0 GPA's. They are also both fine human beings. This does not mean that I think uneducated people are not fine human beings though. I don't think that one topic has anything to do with the other.

-The Katrina victims were American citizens but they were not treated nearly as well by our government as the illegals are. They were left in a stadium to die while THEIR own government abandoned them. That was an American tragedy. They were denied medical care and basic human rights. America should not treat it's own citizens like they treated the Katrina victims. EVER.

-This is a debate forum and I love it. Nothing I say is intended to offend. It is just my opinion and everyone has one. I just think it is nice to be able to state what you feel about issues that are on everyone's mind. Nothing that is said here really upsets me or causes me grief. I don't personally know any illegals and no members of my family are here illegally. I don't know anyone who is an "anchor baby". I think that is the term I have heard used here.

-The only thing we can really do about this issue is to let our politicians know how we feel and be willing to vote them out if they do not follow the wishes of the people they represent. The vast majority of our nation wants this issue handled. We also just have different opinions on how to do this LOL.

-I have paid into the social security system all my life and giving amnesty to these people will quickly bankrupt it ( or so they say). I believe it may be bankrupt by the time that I am ready to use it anyway but I believe the people who pay into the system should be the ones who use it.

-Like I said, I do not know any illegals personally but there is not a large migrant worker population in Indiana. The lettuce argument seems irrelevant in Indiana.LOL

-Next?

L8BloomeR-Thanks and yes it would have been nice to have a nanny and a housekeeper when the kiddies were small. I would have been a lot less tired! LOL

Oh and to anyone who is interested------NO, I have never had a traffic ticket. I am such a nerd............LOL

Mrspruett, I cannot understand why the companies in your state who were hiring the illegals to work on the factory floor were not severely penalized for this. The owners should have been slapped with crushing fines/jail time. It is this which would do more to help to stop the illegal problem than merely rounding up the illegals, firing 'em, and then reporting 'em to immigration. It seems to me that as long as Americans can hire cheaper illegal workers and get away with this, they will do so. And as long as the work is available the illegals will come. You cannot blame them for wanting a better life and for wishing to pursue the American dream. You can, however, blame the system in place for not so severely punishing those employers who hire illegals that other employers will be deterred from this practice.

That gonad-talking dude of yours is right; there is some testicular lack, it seems.

Green- I am not sure either why these companies get a slap on the wrist. One such company which was caught hiring large numbers of illegals was Cosco. They make baby beds, strollers, car seats, and some household stuff like step ladders, etc. They were caught with several hundred illegals in their work force. They did eventually change the name of that particular factory but Cosco is still the parent company. There is another local culprit and that is Tyson chicken. They are also well known to hire illegals. The only thing that I can figure out is that these are HUGE companies and $$$$$$$ talks. As I have said earlier, I do not patronize companies that I know use illegals as part of their work force. We cannot, however, know who all these companies are. I just do what I can. I agree the fat cats are as much to blame as the people who come across the borders . They are all breaking the law.

There is another couple of factors in all this: The unions and the bargain shoppers. The unions push for higher wages and full benefits for workers, but the public wants low prices and high quality in the goods it buys. Something has to give! My father is a union man....believes in them wholeheartedly. He thinks everyone (regardless of age) should make a living wage. But he shops at the 99¢ store and refuses to pay the going price for almost anything. Do you see the problem? I think many employers use illegals to help keep their costs down so they can compete in the global economy. I also think that is why the government looks away even when it knows it is going on. I don't see how this can be fixed without changing people's mindset...