Well, it's the end of the line for my 21 year marriage. This has been a long time in the works, and we've been in counseling for 8 months this time, but in the past off and on for 5 years.

The decision to file for divorce is mine, and I am worried about my kids. My oldest is 18 and away at college, and my youngest is 14. My oldest is taking it hard and because I am the one initating, I am the target of his anger. The youngest is taking it much better, with a "it's about time" approach. The oldest does remember all the years of problems and acknowledges that things have been bad for a long time.

My husband blames the band and my 88 pound weight loss (have to update my avatar) and says I now think I'm better than him.

Not true. I think the band changed me inside as well as out and these problems that have been plaguing our marriage are no longer acceptable to me. It's not that he's a bad guy, just not the guy for me. He knew that I had zero self esteem as a woman and he never helped, in fact he would on a regular basis reinforce the idea that I was lucky he came home every night and no one would ever want me, I was that ugly, unattractive and terrible.

As I gained self esteem I realized that just wasn't true. He admits to at least the last 10-15 years being emotionally checked out and now that I'm sexier he wants me. I say you can't do that for someone that long and expect them to love you again. He killed the love in my heart a longtime ago but I believed I was broken, and this was what I should settle for.

The hardest thing for me is losing his family, I only have 4 people on my side of the family and I love his big irish bunch. They all seem to think this was easy for me and no one seems to care about the pain i'm in.:phanvan

What have your experiences been?

If it were me I'd go to all the utilities and shut them off before you get in the hole. Then he can have the fun job of going and putting everything in his name solely or jointly with you early. That way your credit won't be affected any more than his will.

Wow, he really is a prick, isn't he? Maybe it is time to push him back....

From my understanding of your last post it seems that he has put the utilities in his name and is therefore on the hook for paying these bills. Afterall, it is now a matter of his credit rating, not yours, that is the issue: he will pay these bills. You don't have to contribute.

Do remove your accounts to another bank and do arrange for direct deposit, etc. You might also wish to remove funds that remain in joint accounts at this time.

With respect to the phone, etc, get this account under your name and arrange for payment to be made through your new account or - if you want to play dirty - cancel these services and get yourself a cell phone that you keep near to your person at all times.

Another approach might be to have a strong door with a good lock installed in order to protect your room and have new cable, phone and internet service supplied to this room only. In this way your daughter won't be entirely cut off from these services. If you choose to do this you can get a geek in and have him unlock your home access to this site. (You did say earlier that your husband had made it impossible for you to get here from your home computer.)

I do feel for you and for all that you are going through. Having children certainly complicates things when it comes to fighting this sort of marital war. He is, afterall, their father and yet he is behaving in a very brutal fashion towards yourself. You are in a difficult position: do you descend to his level and take your gloves off? or do you continue to take the high road for the children's sake? My own instinct would be to take the gloves off at this point. You have put up with a lot. Why don't you talk to your kids about the situation? Ask them how they would feel if things got a bit bloodier around the house for awhile? Tell them it won't be forever.

Stop playing his game. If he doesn't want your 20% as agreed to, then stop paying all together. Let him pay everything. Don't pay what he thinks is your debt. You are letting him manipulate you. Since you have to live in the same house how long do you think he will live there without electricity, water, phone, cable, internet? I would stop paying. I would also have savings and joint accounts frozen so that he can't siphon off anymore. I would also make sure he couldn't take your car anymore for his use.

It's time to get tough. Two can play at his game. You still can take the high road, but you've got to stop letting him manipulate you.

With all that said, try to enjoy the children this holiday. You can do fun things with them that does not cost money and that doesn't involve him. Your kids are older so they will be wanting to spend time with their friends as well. If you still have electricity rent a movie or two.

Happy holiday!

12-20 5:30pm

Thanks for the great input & advice everyone. After the first time with the joint bank account being emptied by him, I did go and get my own checking and savings at a different bank that he has no access to.

Part of what I think is driving him crazy is that after the second time of him using the money from the joint account - which I had only been putting in my 20% for bills - I set up to pay the creditors directly from my account rather than putting the money into the joint account where he has access to it.

It was at this point that he declared that he couldn't trust that I was smart enough to figure out 20% and would do whatever he felt he should to protect his credit rating. Not sure what that means, but he doesn't seem to think rationally anyway.

He's also accusedme of using the kids as weapons, and I wanted to ask you all your opinion on that. Again, he took the kids out of state for 4 days over thanksgiving which was also our daughter's birthday, took them last weekend to another part of the state for his brother-in-law's college graduation and I've agreed he cold have them for christmas eve & all day christmas day this year, but he wants to take them out of state again and this I have denied. Technically though, he can take them since there is no parenting plan or divorce decree signed by a judge. It will make him look bad in court later down the road, but not now.

So my question is, how is it I am the one using the kids as weapons? I must be missing something.

I'm a little down at the thought of yet another holiday alone - since my friends will be with their families - but hoping he'll keep them in state so I can see them a bit. I have told the kids that I wanted them to spend the holiday with their dad this year but I didn't want then them out of state. they seemed fine.

Feedback? Thanks!

Talk to your lawyer about the games he's playing and how to put a stop to them. That's what she's being paid for! You shouldn't have to be figuring this out on your own. I don't think the utility companies will allow him to put anything in your name...you would have to be the one to do that. And for goodness sake, don't take his word on what you "should" pay...he's shown how reliable and trustworthy he is(n't)!

I'm so sorry this is such a hassle for you. An easy divorce is hard enough to deal with...I can't imagine how you can deal with all of this. At least this should clinch it once and for all that you're doing the right thing in divorcing him! He's just being manipulative and as nasty as possible.

Hang in there...things WILL get better. You're in my thoughts and prayers.

Emily

Maybe some of what you write here about the kids and him is transparent to them. You sound bitter that he is spending time with them, taking them out of state. Right now the most important thing is peace - for all of you. If they want to go with him then let them. Your day will come when it will be your holiday and you can enjoy it with them. It doesn't have to be on the exact day. Don't make them feel like they have to chose or that Mom will be lonely and sad if they go have fun.

The money is another issue. Just let him pay all the bills. He will be quicker to get things wrapped up and in court if you let him pay the way. You need to be getting money together to live on after the divorce. You can't do that when you are having to pay for every little thing.He is a master manipulator, and he knows how to get to you. He plays the children all the time. Don't fall into that.

Have a quite, happy, holiday. Peace may come with them out of the house for a few days. Don't worry about what looks "good" for the judge. Most of that stuff doesn't even get discussed.

12-21 9:45pm

Today I received an e-mail from him saying that he's going to be taking the kids to his other sister's in another city, about a 2 hr drive away for sunday & monday and bring them back tuesday afternoon.

I just am so angry. My whold point of denying them going to another state was so they could enjoy the holiday with their father but I could also see them at night. If he's taking them that far away for 2 nights, what's the difference?

I checked with the kids and they didn't know this was the plan and when I asked if this was what they wanted to do, they both shrugged. Since they're old enough to understand I did explain why I had hoped they'd stay in the area, but just couldn't bring myself to be the bad guy and say no and they must stay home overnight.

I think that's his plan, to put me in the position of being the bad guy if I refuse.

I called my lawyer but she may be on vacation, I didn't hear back.

I just am very frustrated and feel a bit lonely.

Someone please tell me the kids will see through this. because my son is 18 now I am very scared that next year he won't be around for the holidays. Plus, he has applied to be an exchange student in the UK next year so he may not even be in the country.

HELP!

12-21 9:45pm

when I asked if this was what they wanted to do, they both shrugged. Since they're old enough to understand I did explain why I had hoped they'd stay in the area, but just couldn't bring myself to be the bad guy and say no and they must stay home overnight.

I think that's his plan, to put me in the position of being the bad guy if I refuse.

So what if you're the bad guy? YOU are going to need to fight for YOURSELF. Don't ask your kids. Of course they shrugged. 18 or not, they are still kids and now in the middle of this. It does NOT matter whose "fault" it is. Right now you need to make the decisions for yourself and your children and stand by those decisions because every battle you lose now you'll just have to fight again later.

If you let him set the precedent of having the kids for (both) holidays, that's how it's going to be next year, and the next.

After 17 years I divorced when my kids were 15 & 12. That was 7 years ago. I won't go into all the things my "reasonable" ex-husband pulled the first year, but now that I've been thru it and witnessed it with other people all I can say is NEVER give him the benefit of a doubt in ANYTHING. I'm not saying that because I think your husband a jerk or anything else. I'm saying that because his behavior is TYPICAL. A lot of good men (& women) behave very aggressively when they're feeling threatened... and he is. People are able to justify a lot.

And don't forget that he is reading every word you write here as well as everyone's advice. It's a public forum. I'm sure he's printed everything out.

Most of all, please do not do, say or write ANYTHING that you might regret later.

Hold on. It's likely to be a very tough year, but it WILL get better.

With all due respect it does sound like you are being the pussy here. Your mate has had the kids for the Thanksgiving Weekend and he continues to live in the master bedroom while you camp out in your son's room. Your finances are all messed up and it seems that he is reaping the advantage out of this. Now he proposes to remove the kids from you again at Christmas time; he figures that he will get away with this by keeping them in state.

Surely you must know that this state of affairs is entirely unhealthy and is not doing anyone any good at this point. Your children are no longer being sheltered from your marital break-down by this business of your perverse desire to share the house, are they? If anything they are further stressed by all these horrible games.

Now is the time to settle up this business. You must speak frankly with your children about this situation and you must arrange to sell your matrimonial property ASAP. You must push for this through your divorce lawyer. Indeed, it strikes me that in your desire to protect your children (and possibly because the issues between your husband and yourself have been so murky) you yourself have been displaying mixed messages to them and possibly to your (nutzy) husband.

You are the one who wants the divorce. Talk to your lawyer. Listen to what she says. Follow her advice. She knows what she is talking about. Stop being a pussy.

Why haven't you made any plans for Christmas with your kids? Why don't you have a celebration with them before the actual day and do something really fun. I mean since you waited this long to make your own plans your husband beat you to the punch line. The only plan you've made is to not let your kids go out of state with your ex. Start acting proactively instead of reactively. Thats my 2 cents.

I have to agree a bit with the previous posters. We love you to pieces, but it is really easy to fall into victim mode if you're not careful when going through a divorce. So far through most of the past few months what you have shared with us about your situation has not changed all that much -- other than it has just gotten uglier. He still calls the shots, bullies you and gets his way -- and you continue to allow it to happen.

The best Christmas present you can give to yourself and your kids is to stop being a doormat. This does not mean becoming a b!tch in heels, but it does mean to stop being a doormat. You will all be happier for it in the long run. I have not posted much to this thread lately, as I tend to get frustrated with women who allow themselves to fall into this role. I used to be that woman, so I know what you are going through. My first husband was both physically, emotionally and verbally abusive and, until my daughter was born, I put up with it -- even though I knew that it was wrong. I decided once she was born that if I was stupid enough to put up with this -- shame on me -- but that I was not going to allow her to grow up thinking this was normal behavior.

You have to be a strong role model for your daughter. If you don't, her choices in men will likely mirror the situation she has seen at home and I know you do not want her to go through the same types of control/manipulation issues that you have. You are going through an emotional rollercoaster right now, but you still need to make sure that you put her best interests first -- and I am NOT talking about paying a certain percentage of the bills or living in the war zone just because neither of you is willing to leave the house. It won't be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is.

In my case, it was terribily hard -- I went from being financially secure to living like a pauper for a few years, but it was life on my terms and nobody was pushing me around anymore and my daughter was not seeing the dysfunction of our home as being 'normal' behavior. Kids have enough drama and angst as teenagers -- they don't need to have a front row seat to their parents' emotional rollercoaster, too.

I know that I preach taking the high road an awful lot and I am living proof that you can be empowered while still taking the high road. I used to be the wimpiest of women and a total doormat. I have since realized that I was doing neither myself nor my children any favors by being this way. What kind of a role model was I for my kids? Is this what I wanted my daughter to grow up to be? Absolutely not! Assertive does not have to mean aggressive -- it just means that you are no longer taking crap or playing into his little drama and games.

You have said that you work at your daugther's school -- check into whether or not your school system offers an EAP -- employee assistance program. EAP is a benefit that many organizations offer and it wil allow you a certain number of FREE counseling sessions -- usually anywhere between 4-10 visits. I would take advantage of this if it is available. Again, you are not just doing it for yourself -- you are doing it for your children, too. They need to see you as being strong and proactive or they will not respect you. We can only be bullied and manipulated if we allow ourselves to do so -- so stop being that wimp now.

Don't ask your kids whether or not they want to go to the aunt's. It is not fair to them. They are children -- even if in college -- and they want to please their parents. Keep them out of the middle. Quit fighting in front of them. Let the lawyers battle it out, but keep the battles and the games out of the kids' view.

Quit paying the bills until the court orders you to do so.

And, for goodness sake...how long it is it going to take the two of you to realize that the reason you are getting divorced is because you can no longer live in the same house???? So stop it, already. Somebody has to go...for the sake of your mental health and for the sake of the kids. One of you has to move out of the house. Just sell the darn thing and get it over -- the two of you are becoming territorial over the little stuff that doesn't matter. As long as the two of you are living together the drama will continue.

MarySue33 has powerfully good advice for you. You must sever your financial connections with your husband. You must stop living under the same roof: it is unhealthy and by continuing to live under the same roof you are giving your husband and your children mixed messages. This isn't fair to your husband and as for your kids, well, this can do nothing but screw them up.

You must stop playing financial martyr with regards to this issue of continuing to pony up your 20% when he has long since skipped out on his side of this contract. It doesn't make any sense and you can't afford it.

MarySue has excellent advice re EAP. If your workplace offers this programme then you must definitely take advantage of it for this is a programme that will offer you free advice from experts in a number of fields. Knowledge is always power, is it not?

As for you, if you do want this divorce you must stop behaving like a pussy. You must begin to speak openly and honestly with your children about your life, your feelings, and your current situation. Ask them to spend Christmas with you. Explain to them that you would like to have them with you at this time of year and it is only because you love them. Do not guilt trip them.

As for this entirely twisted situation concerning the two of you living under the same roof: stop it! You must know that this is both unhealthy and counter-productive. Demand that the matrimonial property be sold and that you as the weaker financial partner get the greater share of the settlement. Buy another place. Move on with your life. Your children are young; they will move on with their lives and they will resent you (or their father for that matter) if you do not do the same thing.

You can choose to look at life the way a young person does. You can choose to walk away from these dreadfully destructive behaviours, shed this crap, and walk forward. Stop being a pussy and split.

Wonderkidsmom...

Reading thru the above messages (including mine) we sound do sound very "tough love." Please know that it is because we've been thru it and we KNOW how difficult and how FRIGHTENING it is to go thru a divorce in your situation.

I think mostly what we mean to convey is you CAN do it--and you WILL be happy someday. Everytime you think about how incredibly frightened and sad you are try to remind yourself that this is just the tunnel you've got to go thru to get to the other side. There IS another side.

So much of the pain of divorce is the feeling of failure and the loss of the life you dreamed of. Your choice of name itself shows how invested you are in your picture of yourself as a "Mom" and wife. I remember how sad I felt when my ex took the SUV and I no longer drove the "soccer mom" car. A mom defines so much of who I was it made every loss seem to magnify my feelings of failure as a mother because I was breaking up our home.

Maybe with the new year and your new life it's time to come up with a name that conveys the new YOU you want to become--just to inspire and confirm YOURSELF as more than someone's mom.

Find ways to inspire yourself. Just a suggestion.

Wonderkidsmom...

Did you make it thru the holidays?

Hope everything turned out all right.

12-29 9am

Good Mornng everyone!

As usual I've survived the holidays better than I thought I would. I've had some difficulty accessing a secure computer to post.

I wound up going to the house of my old college friend's family (the same one who rescued me at Thanksgiving). Since I've known her & most of her family so long and met the others on turkey day, I actually had a great time. I skipped the dinner to allow them family time but still spent a very enjoyable several hours with them.

I was however a bit disappointed with my children, as I kept having to call them and they were just too busy to talk, and I'd ask them to please call me back and they'd forget. I try and logically remember that they were just having a good time, bbut a part of me is sad that they didn't take the time to stop and think that mom was alone and would love a quick call from them to say hi. At 18 and 14 is that really asking too much? I haven't expressed this to them but still feel a bit unimportant.

I discovered yesterday that my daughter has been instant messaging with people she doesn't actually know, so I immediately deleted all software allowng that, spoke to her and again trying to do the right thing called her father to report what wa going on. To my surprise he was agreeable to sitting down with her as a united parental front and discussing the problem with her.

Since I had already purchased tickets to take the kids to a movie, I told him what time we'd be home. After we got home, he went upstairs and talked to her on his own, then simply came down and told me he'd already spoken to her himself and had no reason to talk to her with me. He also gave me the password for the spyware he had installed on the computer and told me it was my job to check on her as he would be only using his laptop and not the family computer.

He refused to speak to me anymore, even when I discovered yet another bill he took of the auto pay from the joint account. When I asked why he had spoken to her alone and not together as we discussed he left the room. When he returned I asked what his problem was and he replied that "it" was currently standing in the kitchen talking to him.

I placed a call to my attorney yesterday but didn't get a call back, she may be off until after the new year.

I have plans to spend new years eve & possibly overnight with a female friend about 3 miles away. What do you think? I'm not sure if the kids have plans, but they son't really seem to want to do anything with me and I feel a bit trapped. They mostly sleep till afternoon then go visit friends or just hang around and want to do nothing I offer.

Advise? Also, there are some things I'm not comfortable posting here as I think he still checks these postings, but devilmaykare, Marysue33 and green please PM me and I'll elobrate.

All of you, please, I need some advise & support.

Thanks and my 2007 be the best year ever for all of us!