I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

Sadly Leigha, I have found that to be the case with most of my Republican friends.

Usually when something like that happens they don't get up and leave though. They change the subject and say something like, "well, Obama wants to just keep spending, spending, spending until our children will be burdened with such a huge deficit they'll never get out of debt!" Or, "Obama wants to tax companies so much that it will put the small businessman out of business!" Or, "Obama wants the government to pay for abortions!" Or any number of other talking points and buzz words that Limbaugh, Beck and Rupert Murdoch have drilled into their pretty little heads.

And we have congressmen getting up and saying those things too when they have evidence to the contrary in front of their faces. It isn't that they don't know what they're doing. It's that their votes have been bought and paid for.* Only Americans who believe their rethoric are clueless.

*(Except in the case of that Stupak dude who wants to make abortion an issue on the back of health care legislation - I think he's probably just a die hard Catholic trying to make points with the Pope.)

Sadly Leigha, I have found that to be the case with most of my Republican friends.

Usually when something like that happens they don't get up and leave though. They change the subject and say something like, "well, Obama wants to just keep spending, spending, spending until our children will be burdened with such a huge deficit they'll never get out of debt!" Or, "Obama wants to tax companies so much that it will put the small businessman out of business!" Or, "Obama wants the government to pay for abortions!" Or any number of other talking points and buzz words that Limbaugh, Beck and Rupert Murdoch have drilled into their pretty little heads.

And we have congressmen getting up and saying those things too when they have evidence to the contrary in front of their faces. It isn't that they don't know what they're doing. It's that their votes have been bought and paid for.* Only Americans who believe their rethoric are clueless.

*(Except in the case of that Stupak dude who wants to make abortion an issue on the back of health care legislation - I think he's probably just a die hard Catholic trying to make points with the Pope.)

Exactly. The republicans are experts at using fear and lies. And their recent RNC secret memo that I posted proved it. They can reduce everything to a one line lie that stupid people can remember and repeat ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

That memo shows how contemptuous the RNC is of even it's own donors. It is breathtaking in its utter contempt and blanant display of their tactics of lies and fear.

We have to become better at getting the truth out. Democrats are not very good at this. They need to reduce things to a single sound bite that the attention challenged americans can hear.

All you hear is the conservative media going over and over the processes used in the house and senate. Do you recall them doing this under bush? When reconciliation was used several times? Did you even know it was used then? NO. But now that the democrats plan on using it - well, it's dissected microscopically. And of course criticized by the hypocritical republicans.

And notice that of all the posts I posted, the focus isn't on the tea party racism, the contemptuous lies and fear of the RNC, or all the republican hypocrisy, no, it's on a misstatment of 9 votes.

Exactly. The republicans are experts at using fear and lies. And their recent RNC secret memo that I posted proved it.

All politicians use fear and lies. Both democrats and republicans. Whether you are talking about the environment or promoting homophobia. Both sides tend to not listen nor think for themselves. It is always amusing when either side blindly follows and yet calls the other brain washed.

So you're saying that we should not call people out when we know that they've lied? I mean on either side. We should just throw up our hands and say, well the other side does it so it's acceptable for us to lie?

That's b.s. If you know of a Democrat that has lied, post it, yell about it, rant and rave about it. We welcome it. We don't want that from any of our elected officials.

But if you think that the Democrats use lies, fear, misstatements and misrepresentations to get their agenda passed, to the extent that the Republicans do, I will take issue with that because it just isn't true.

Everybody in the world lies. But that don't make it right.

MissyMS, btw, I noticed that you were banded in Decmeber and you've lost over 50 lbs!!! That's fantastic. Congratulations!!!! Way to go.

MissyMS, btw, I noticed that you were banded in Decmeber and you've lost over 50 lbs!!! That's fantastic. Congratulations!!!! Way to go.

Thanks! I appreciate it. That is total from last summer.

I do think both sides do it. Whether it should always be called out, I don't know. Probably. But then I don't think it should be called from higher ground. I can't imagine a world without both sides complimenting one another, frankly. I think it is one of the better aspects of our society.

What I do believe is that the two groups are more alike than different if you poll the average member. And the animosity that is promoted by the far left and far right does nothing to solve the issues of either side. It is a frustration for me.

I have friends who are local to state politicians on both sides. Once a person gets beyond the local they have already sold out to far too many people. So, I guess my lack of respect for politicians in general colors my opinion, also.

Missy: "Once a person gets beyond the local they have already sold out to far too many people. So, I guess my lack of respect for politicians in general colors my opinion, also."

I believe that often the locals are corrupt too. And it is definitely frustrating, I agree. And we have a system in Washington that actually makes it practically unavoidable for our politicans. The lobbyists have far too much power and too direct access to Congress.

Got any ideas of how it's ever going to change? Getting rid of the current folks (at least at the national level) won't solve a thing. It's the system that has to change and they are in charge of it so how's that going to make it happen?

I still think it is valuable (although yes, frustrating) for us to get informed and to try to get our representatives to actually represent us and our needs. Letters to congress actually do get read and counted and answered by their staff.

No idea how to change it!! Thus my frustration. And, you are right corrupt can begin at home. I have know people who I did like and did respect and who did have admirable goals etc., that went south as soon as they stepped into the larger govt.

I guess that what would really change it would be if the people chose to start looking past the hype and at the real issues. If they/we would look at the big picture and decide whether it makes sense would help. People are too quick to jump on the bandwagon, point fingers and blame, etc.

I guess I don't really belong on this thread. I was reading randomly, and stumbled on that statement and started thinking about it. Whether you are using the environment or the terrorists it is wrong to use hype and fear. The dreamer in me would love to see unbiased assessments...lol. I know, they make meds for that kind of foolishness!

Hey, sure you belong on this thread! Certainly as much as anyone else does.

If it is fun for you to vent occasionally, it's a good thing. If it just upsets you then bah! pass it by.

Some of us enjoy ranting and raving and reading the opinions of others - even when we disagree. I have learned a lot here. I do not take it personally when someone disagrees with me. We all have different backgrounds, different experiences and different outlooks on life. We sometimes learn more from people we disagree with. At least it makes us think. And as far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing.

I've enjoyed reading your posts.

Once more for fear mongering,

Fishing ban not likely, but anglers worry

Copyright 2010 KLTV. All rights reserved.

TYLER, TEXAS (KLTV) - Fishing anglers across the country were reeled in by a big story on Tuesday. An espn.com article claimed that the Obama administration could prohibit anglers from fishing in waters across the country.

Today, ESPN's Outdoor Executive Editor apologized for how the story was presented, saying the article was actually a commentary.

While it's not accurate to report the Obama administration is going to stop recreational fishing like this, it is true that the President has appointed an Interagency Ocean Policy Task Force. The task force is responsible for developing a national policy and strategy to conserve and manage our oceans, coasts and Great lakes.

With the task force in place, thousands of anglers are not happy because they have been kept out of the loop. They fear there could be future fishing restrictions. Though no new changes are on the books, East Texan and Lake Fork guide Lance Vick says fellow anglers should be worried.

"We do need to investigate this as anglers," said Vick. "Is there a fire where the smoke is? Are we going to wake up one day and they're going to have a bill in the house where they're going to limit inland fisheries. I don't think we need more policies. We have governing agencies to manage our resources as it is, and it's working."

The most recent report released by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said that salt water angling generated 82 billion dollars in sales in the United States.

So here is how "reporting" in done in East Texas, first they state a fishing ban is "not likely, but" then they have someone else a "professional" state that you should worry. This gets them in the clear. "We didn't say you should worry the fishing guide did". And why are they talking to a recreational freshwater bass fisherman when this is a policy for commercial saltwater fisherman. Scare tactic all the way...

Edited March 11, 201016 yr by LeighaMason
spelling

You're being too kind. It's what the extremists in this country are good at: misinformation and misleading stories and in many cases, outright lies. They're good at setting up scary scenarios that do not exist but spark the imagination of anyone who wants a reason to distrust the government. But they only do this when the government is being run by Democrats. You do not hear this kind of bull$hite when the Republicans are in control and yet, they have been the most guilty of not protecting our environment from the massive corporate polluters.

If one strips away the lies and misinformation, one will quickly see through their unfair and unreasonable political hype and learn that the Democrats try to represent the majority of Americans.

The Repbulicans justify polluting the environment and make lame arguments for it. The Democrats are concerned about the air we breathe, the water we drink and the food we eat.

This ridiculous article coming out of Tyler is a fine example of a "red herring" to get people to turn away from the serious business of taking care of our environment. The President has no plans to place a ban on fishing the lakes of America, but they're trying to get fishermen and women to be anti-Obama for it anyway.

I knew it!

All politicians use fear and lies. Both democrats and republicans. Whether you are talking about the environment or promoting homophobia. Both sides tend to not listen nor think for themselves. It is always amusing when either side blindly follows and yet calls the other brain washed.

Good luck trying to convince them that the democrats are just as evil as the republicans. :wink2:

Here, take the Nolan Test to see where you truly stand...According to this test I am a Libertarian...Not sure I 100% agree with that because there are a few things that Libertarians side with that i do not....but its interesting either way...

Nolan Chart Survey

btreiger are you trying to say that the Republican's packages are bigger than the presidents?