I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

From Ariscus99:

Liberal hypocrisy on the "nuclear option".

From ScienceBlogs.com

My favorite part is where Biden says on the floor of the Senate that the nuclear option is "the ultimate example of the arrogance of power" and a "fundamental power grab." Harry Reid also says it was only being considered because of the "arrogance of power of this Republican administration." Now if the Democrats go through with it, he'll have to be the one pulling the trigger.

It will be great fun to watch him try to justify himself. And equally fun to watch the Republicans in the Senate wax eloquent about the arrogance of the Democrats in doing what they wanted to do 5 years ago too.

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I copied this from a previous post I made on the hypocrisy thread:

Re: Hypocrisy of Republicans/Conservatives

permalink

Republicans, healthcare, reconciliation and the nuclear option.

The nuclear option is actually a procedural plan in the Senate. In 2005, republican senator Bill Frist tried to get rid of the filibuster by using the nuclear option. He tried to do this to keep democratic senators from filibustering bush's judicial nominees. Republican Sen. Judd Gregg defended this nuclear option in 2005 as being a rule of the Senate.

Fast forward to 2010 and the healthcare debate and the lying republicans are saying that the democrats are going to use the nuclear option to pass it. NOT TRUE (but when has that ever stopped them from saying something?)

The democrats are considering using reconciliation as a option to pass healthcare reform. RECONCILIATION IS NOT THE NUCLEAR OPTION. So, if you hear republicans say it is, you will know they are lying.

You will also hear republicans say reconciliation was never and should never be used to pass big healthcare program.

Also false. Reconciliation was used to pass COBRA (the R in COBRA stands for reconciliation).

Reconciliation was used to pass S-CHIP.

In fact, most healthcare bills were passed with reconciliation.

Reconciliation has been used 22 times since 1980, 16 times by republicans, including both of bush's tax cuts for the rich (2001, 2003).

So, when they talk about the nuclear option or against reconciliation, the republicans are either lying or being typically hypocritcal.

Edited March 4, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

It couldn't be that he was an embarrassment and exposed the tea party for what it was, uncovering their hidden agenda? Because that's exactly what it was!! And it's telling that from that whole article, that is what you take away.

It's telling that I take away that another story you post is inaccurate and leaves key points out? Yeah I think so to, it's telling that I can see through the BS that the far left tries to show as news. They're continuing the swiftboating of America, and it's sad, and downright dishonest.

It's telling that I take away that another story you post is inaccurate and leaves key points out? Yeah I think so to, it's telling that I can see through the BS that the far left tries to show as news. They're continuing the swiftboating of America, and it's sad, and downright dishonest.

What? That they got rid of him? As far as I can tell, only the Houston tea partiers disassociated themselves from him. And that ONLY 144 republicans voted no instead of 153? Neither changes the big picture.

Edited March 5, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

What? That they got rid of him? As far as I can tell, only the Houston tea partiers disassociated themselves from him. And that ONLY 144 republicans voted no instead of 153? Neither changes the big picture.

Both show that neither you nor the websites you use as your sources care about the whole truth, only the parts that help your agenda. And in the case of the votes, you think its a coincidence that there were 153 votes against and 9 being dems, and they just left that out saying 153 repubs voted against, no, they new it wasn't true and didn't care. And neither did you.

Edited March 5, 201016 yr by ariscus99

Both show that neither you nor the websites you use as your sources care about the whole truth, only the parts that help your agenda. And in the case of the votes, you think its a coincidence that there were 153 votes against and 9 being dems, and they just left that out saying 153 repubs voted against, no, they new it wasn't true and didn't care. And neither did you.

The fact that 9 democrats voted against this bill is irrelevant because there have been a few democrats who have voted against all of the bills proposed by the democrats and Pres. Obama. What IS relevant is that almost all the republicans have voted against EVERYTHING - even things they had previously sponsored in this congress or voted or supported under bush. They vote against it just because the democrats have the majority. THAT is the real issue, not the number 9.

The fact that 9 democrats voted against this bill is irrelevant because there have been a few democrats who have voted against all of the bills proposed by the democrats and Pres. Obama. What IS relevant is that almost all the republicans have voted against EVERYTHING - even things they had previously sponsored in this congress or voted or supported under bush. They vote against it just because the democrats have the majority. THAT is the real issue, not the number 9.

The real issue is the one you've been dodging all day; HONESTY!

The real issue is the one you've been dodging all day; HONESTY!

I haven't dodged anything. You just want to throw red herrings into the bigger picture to deflect from it.

Yawn :smile2:

I haven't dodged anything. You just want to throw red herrings into the bigger picture to deflect from it.

Yawn :smile2:

So then my assumption that your alright with the liberal media lying as long as it promotes your agenda is true. In which case your correct you didn't dodge anything, you just don't care if someone is lying to millions of people as long as yours and the dems agenda gets pushed through. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited March 5, 201016 yr by ariscus99

So then my assumption that your alright with the liberal media lying as long as it promotes your agenda is true. In which case your correct you didn't dodge anything, you just don't care if someone is lying to millions of people as long as yours and the dems agenda gets pushed through. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Lying to millions of people? What dem agenda? Getting pushed where? :smile2: Move on, will you?

I have no idea what you're talking about. Lying to millions of people? What dem agenda? Getting pushed where? :w00t: Move on, will you?

Lying to millions of people? The huff, the kos, media matters, all lied about the bill you posted earlier, millions of people presumably read those sites, so that would mean they lied to millions of people.

Getting pushed where? Down the American people's throat.

The dem agenda? I'm not sure what it is you tell me. Other then continuing the swiftboating of America, and trying hard to become more socialistic, I'm really not too sure what it is, but you've posted before that you support the democratic agenda. So yeah move on, don't point out the lies, that undermines everything, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...:smile2:

airscus, "Also fox regularly apologizes for their mistakes. Not something you hear from many liberal "news" agencies."

I respectfully disagree. They lie and when they are exposed, they make stuff up to divert attention away from the lie that they've made up.

This has a lot to do with our differing political views. You seem to believe that everybody but Fox is lying. I believe that everybody else usually has it right and Fox (and Limbaugh) are liars and are trying their dead level best to keep people like you lapping it up like milk by a kitten.

You've given your opinion. Now I've given you mine.

the swiftboating of America

Oh no you did not!!! The swiftboating of America??? Perpetrated by Democrats? Are you that brainwashed and out of touch with reality? Are you nuts? Do you have a clue at all about the Swiftboat campaign????

OMG!!!!!!!!

Do you have a clue at all about the swiftboating going on today? Perpetrated by the left wing media? You may be the brainwashed one if you don't see what is going on today.

Right....sure... uh huh...

honest to pete, you are beginning to crack me up!

Here is what confuses me on the whole "democrats are brainwashed" theory, I hear democrats talk and I read what they write but it all has a different feel. When a republican speaks or writes I see the same catch phrases over and over, i.e. "swiftboating", "socialized medicine", etc. its like everything they say was a cut and paste from fox news.

The other day I was having drinks with my friends (all republicans besides me) and some guy who was there started in on "socialized medicine" so I said "You know I can't remember the definition of socialism, can you tell me what it is?" He got mad and left because he only knew he was suppose to be against it, he didn't know what is was. Nobody at the table could give the accurate description of what it was, every body there described communism. And by the way these are all educated people.