BJ: You are correct, I have not read the entire thread, I just can't. I see too many things on both side of the argument that are hurtful to the other side. This kind of arguing does not serve anyones purpose, especially not our loving creator, in my opinion.
I do realize that more than arguing is taking place, I have read enough, but in the 190 pages, the majority of posts contain a bashing of the other side.
I did read a post of yours, in which you state that you ran from religon but returned to God. That is awesome. I am a Penticostal christian by denomination, however, I don't believe this is not how Jesus classifies me. I believe that he sees us not by our relationship to a church but by the relationship that we have with him (keeping in mind that he does not want us to forsake the gathering together in his name and worship). Anyone that has truly accepted him and have been saved, are his redeemed. Anyone that hasn't is lost. That is probably simplifying it too much, but I believe that.
Again, all please understand, my post was not to criticize a single poster. I guess in some ways, it was a criticizm of the human nature.