marjon9

On second thought, never mind. I'm sure you have better things to do with your time, as do I. Suffice it to say, I've researched this topic and in all of my research of both pro-life and pro-abortion organizations, I have never seen evidence of any early feminists who supported abortion. Pro-abortion organizations have tried to spin the writings of early feminists to say they would be pro-abortion in the modern day, but the statements of the feminists themselves belie that claim. I would think, if there was an early feminist who was also pro-abortion, she would have been well-touted in organizations that want abortion to remain legal.

Wow, that is the weakest argument I've seen from you, and that's saying a lot. You claim that early feminists were pro life because if any early feminist was pro-choice, she would be well-touted, so therefore there must not be any. That is your support for the argument that all early feminists were pro-life?

It is totally anti-intuitive, and virtually inconceivable, to think that any feminist, early or otherwise, would support turning over decisions about her life to other people. A feminist, almost by definition, would support the maximum of choice and personal control and freedom in her own life. If you are really asserting that "early" feminists advocated less freedom and less choice and less independence concerning their own lives, you really should offer some sort of proof other than, "if there were any who supported personal freedom and independence, we'd know about it."

Is pot roast a liquid?

Mark, LOL! I have a Boston Terrier too and she's always snuggled up to me like that. I love your Avatar pic.quote]

Boston Terriers are amazing. Small in size, but with a huge personality. She's a great dog.

will coffee make me slime?

No, not in itself. But if you are already slime, it may further accentuate this characteristic.

Sorry I am still waiting to hear what a PB is

A PB is a "President Bush." It's called that because sometimes when you have the band you feel "stuck" and you just want to barf. Sort of the way President Bush makes you feel. I hope that's helpful.

Oh yeah ! Well I have 4 guinea pigs ! Junior , Spike , Harry , and cuddles

I'm having a very hard time understanding why three out of four guinea pigs have the first letter of their name capitalized, but the fourth one (cuddles), has the first letter of its name in lower case. Can someone explain this? Isn't there enough trouble in the world without this, too? I just sit here wondering: "WHY?"

Oh yeah ! Well I have 4 guinea pigs ! Junior , Spike , Harry , and cuddles

I'm having a very hard time understanding why three out of four guinea pigs have the first letter of their name capitalized, but the fourth one (cuddles), has the first letter of its name in lower case. Can someone explain this? Isn't there enough trouble in the world without this, too? I just sit here wondering: "WHY?"

Just make sure she's not angry with you. There are times when my wife would probably be inclined to fill up my band with Plaster of Paris, or something of that nature. :omg::heh::boink:

This is why giving a failing class grade is very cathartic.

I don't know, I think Laurend may enjoy inflicting punishment just a little too much here. Do you have a large selection of pointy-toed patent leather boots, by any chance? Any whips?

Gadget, for the moment can you stop evoking slaves and slavery into your postings...it is making me rather uncomfortable.quote]

I knew she wouldn't do it. Asking gadget to give up the slavery thing, even for a short time, is like asking "Head On" to stop saying "Apply Directly To The Forehead." Both are annoying, and neither will ever end.

I had my pregnant stray cat spayed and aborted at the same time. Does this mean that I am going to Hell?

Not with those big feet.

Why, pray tell? I believe science should determine when human life begins, and allowing people to decide willy-nilly based on their own personal conscience leads to things like infanticide, euthanasia, and slavery.

Believe whatever you want, it's fine with me. Fortunately you are not allowed to force your beliefs, willy nilly, on other people.

This is the road we end up on when we believe one person has the right to define when another person's life begins.

Ah, the irony. Truly breathtaking.

This seems like a good idea to me. We could do hot dogs, or chicken wings, or maybe blueberry pie? :hungry: One good thing is that even the winner would only be able to eat very small amounts, so the cost of putting on the contest would be minimal. The main drawback I see is that the competitors would need to take very small bites, chew a long time, and put the fork down between each bite, so the contest could be pretty time consuming and possibly boring to some. But I still think there would be a lot of excitement and tension for the spectators in light of the very substantial risk of a PB :rain:, which of course would immediately disqualify the contestant.

I don't know, it's just a thought, but I think it could work.

Everyone is talking about bowing out of the discussion. That's a shame. It's true that most of us have said everything we have to say on the subject. Indeed, most of us said everything we have to say months ago. But that has not stopped us from inflicting physical punishment on deceased equines. Even though nothing much is new, it is still fun and educational to talk about it. I hope to see you all back here again for the next round. Hy O, Silver!!

The plans were to get an okey from my doctor today for surgery.Pre -admission testing in two weeks. Surgery around Thanksgiving. All seemed to be going my way.

NOW Found I have moderate sleep apnea. Have to wait to schedule another night with the sleep disorder clinic.Barix Clinic then wants me to be on machine for at least 6 weeks before they will even schedule me for pre admission testing. I am extremely frustrated.Seems like Nothing is going right. Can some one clue me in on this sleep apnea.:mad::confused:

I have to disagree with you when you say that "Nothing is going right." I think your post is cause to Celebrate. Getting diagnosed with sleep apnea is probably the best thing that will happen to you this year. Sleep apnea is a very serious problem that can kill you. Getting treatment for it is so worth a short delay in the surgery schedule.

I don't mean to make light of your frustration. I remember how anxious I was to get my surgery too. But I still maintain that overall this is good news. When you have sleep apnea you stop breathing at night. This puts a terrible strain on your heart and it can be very serious. It causes loud snoring which can be a problem for a lot of reasons. It makes you tired all the time without even knowing why. I affects job performance and overall quality of life in many ways.

Again, I understand your frustration, but try not to feel too bad. Getting treatment for the apnea is a very positive thing. The lap band surgery will be here in no time.

I don't believe abortion is a religious issue. It's a human rights issue. There are athiests who are pro-life -- simply based on the undeniable humanity of the unborn.

Your arguments take several forms, but they amount to the same thing in every case. Your argument is simply this: "I'm right because I'm right because I'm right." I really don't understand that approach. By definition a person cannot win an argument by simply declaring victory without addressing the arguments of those on the other side.

You say in the quote above that some atheists are pro-life because of the "undeniable humanity of the unborn." What is the point of making such a statement? What does it prove? How do you expect that it will persuade anyone when you know that the majority of the people here do not agree that this "humanity" actually is "undeniable." In essence, this argument is the same as all your others: "I'm right because I'm right because I'm right."

It's the same with your oft-repeated slaverly argument. You say that there are parallels between abortion and slavery that all of us pro-choice advocates "refuse to see." You argue as follows: "I will again point out why I compare abortion to slavery: slavery was legally allowed because the slaves were defined as less than a full human being. Abortion is legally allowed for the same reason."

Your argument that slavery parallels abortion is correct ONLY if one STARTS with the premise that 4 cells in a womb equals "human life." Obviously you think it does, but the whole point is, the pro-choice advocates disagree with exactly that point. That is the exact point under debate. How do you think it helps your argument to simply declare over and over again "I'm right because I'm right because I'm right." What does that prove?

There can be no doubt that some people in this country once believed slaves were less than human. History has shown that these people were gravely wrong and their memories deserve to live in disgrace for all eternity. But just because that is true does not in any way "prove" that history will reach the same conclusion about pro-choice advocates. The change in the view toward slaves does not, in and of itself, somehow demonstrate that a similar change in view inevitably will occur with respect to abortion. Clearly the parallel exists ONLY if one STARTS with the premise that a group of 4 cells in a womb is "undeniably" "human life." But that is EXACTLY what the pro-choice advocates disagree with. So again, your "argument" really does nothing at all to prove anything. Your whole slavery argument is just another way for you to say, again and again, "I'm right because I'm right because I'm right."

You are an intelligent person, gadget, but you just don't seem to get this same basic point that I have made to you over and over. You can't win an argument by simply declaring yourself the winner and then telling everyone else that they just "refuse to see the truth." You have not done anything to demonstrate that your view is the truth. (And of course, you never will, because the abortion debate is not about one "truth," it is a matter of conscience that must be left to the individual to decide, not the state or the church.)

Hahahaha

Pers one: I am in a refugee camp in Darfur with my 3 undernourished children. Three of my children have already died, and my husband has disappeared. I am 22 years old, I have been raped, and now I am pregnant. There is no food here. We are starving. They say that the rich countries are sending us food but I don't believe it. I am starving. I don't think that I can survive this pregnancy. What will happen to my children? Who will look after them?

Pers two: I have never wanted to have children and it is for this reason that I have always been careful about my birth control practices. Ugh! I think that I might be pregnant........ WTF!

Pers three: I really love kids. I have always wanted to have a large family. My husband and I were scared shitless when I almost died while having my second kid. The doctors told me that I shouldn't have even tried to become pregnant again. The problem is that my husband and I have hostile blood types; one of us is a positive and one of us is a negative. I certainly can't ever have another child. This will kill me and the child. This is why I have had 2 abortions. If I lived in Canada or the United States I could have had my tubes tied but in France sterilisation is an illegal procedure. Abortion is legal and this is why I have had a couple of abortions but I have found these experiences to be heart-breaking.

Pers four: He told me that he loved me and that if I loved him I would do it. And besides, he said that nobody ever got pregnant on their first time. Shit! I am 14/15/16 years old. I haven't even finished school. What am I going to say to my parents?

Pers five: Where I live it is impossible to obtain birth. I sure do wish I could obtain an adequate supply of birth control pills or a diaphragm and a tube of anti-spermicide. It sure is easy to arrange for an abortion where I live and it sure is pretty much impossible for me to get my paws on birth control methods which work. Those women who have real freedom over their reproductive tracts are those women who live in the rich western countries. I feel frustrated and blocked and out of control of both my body and my life. And now I hear that wealthy western women are judging me...........! I think I hate you.

green, you are in fine form tonight! I'm looking forward to the inevitable response that will explain why persons of a particular belief system should have the right to control the bodies and lives of all these women. It should be interesting. Great post!

This thread threw me off, but Happy Thanksgiving to you banders across the boarder!

Me too, I was starting to wonder if my mis-deeds in the '70s were starting to catch up with me and I had a little Rip van Winkle episode. a little Rip van Winkle episode. a little Rip van Winkle episode. a little Rip van Winkle episode. a little Rip van Winkle episode ... Oh... sorry!

I was on the CPAP before I became interested in the lap band, so I did not have to go through the same type of issues you have. I did not bring my CPAP to the hospital because there was no overnight stay required, and while I was unconscious they used a breathing tube, so I just left my CPAP at the hotel.

It's great that you were persistent about getting the test. In my case I resisted getting tested for a long time even though I was told that I stopped breathing at night for extended periods of time like 30 seconds, and even though I felt tired all the time. My wife was finally able to push me into getting tested and I'm very glad she did.

I know it is annoying to sort out the scheduling right now, but ultimately this is all probably some pretty good news because if you are seriously tired all day the CPAP will probably make a big positive difference in how you feel. It certainly did for me. There are very few things a person can do in life that are safe, legal, and healthy that can make that kind of immediate big difference in quality of life. And it is not just a matter of making you feel better. sleep apnea is extremely hard on your heart and, indeed, it can kill you. So it is really important to treat it. It even helps you lose weight because in general you have more energy.

Many people find that after they lose a lot of weight they can get rid of the CPAP. That will be great if and when it happens. But in the meantime, it is actually good news that you have the diagnosis and will get the treatment. Even if you have to wait until December for surgery, that will be here before you know it.

Is that the fish oil stuff in a pudding like substance?

I was at Hi Health a few weeks ago and they added some samples of that to my bag. I tried, I just couldn't get beyond the idea of "fish pudding" and I pitched them. Blech...

This stuff may be "fish pudding" in a sense, but the point is, it doesn't taste like that at all. No fish taste or aftertaste whatsoever. The chocolate orange ones actually taste quite good. And, from what I'm told, they offer much better Omega-3 absorption compared to other sources like gel caps.

My surgical group strongly recommends taking Vitamins for the rest of my life. Conceptually this is a great thing but I have a problem with taking Vitamins without the band, I cannot imagine how I will tolerate them with the band. They are recommending:

2 chewable Multi Vitamins and minerals a day

1 sublingual B-12 per day 500-1000mcg

1200mg of calcium citrate

I think I am going to have to get liquid vitamins given my tolerance history of taking vitamins in pill form.

Any advise out there about what vitamins are good?

I use Centrum chewable multi vitamins, and Caltrate chewable Calcium.< /p>

A "sublingual" B-12 means that it will dissolve under your tongue.

All of these are pretty much the equivalent of liquid vitamins. A chewable or dissolvable Vitamin turns into liquid, more or less, before you swallow it. chewables are much easier to get down than pills. So basically I think you will find that the items on your list are no problem.

If you ever decide to add an Omega-3 supplement, I might recommend Coromega brand Chocolate/Orange flavor squeeze pouches. Very tasty and easy to take. Check out vitacost.com for good price on 90 day supply.

Just wanted to pass along info about Coromega brand Omega-3 supplements that my regular doctor recommended. The supplement comes in little squeeze packets that you squeeze into your mouth or mix with other things if you want, so there are no pills or gel caps to swallow, or tablespoons of gross oil to drink, etc. The stuff inside these squeeze packs actually tastes good. I use the chocolate orange flavor. It's sort of like a teaspoon of pudding. These are made from fish oil but there is no fish taste or fish aftertaste at all. Plus the Coromega company claims that these supplements offer greater bioavailability and faster absorption compared to other sources of Omega-3 like gel caps.

These packets can be a little pricey in the stores, but I found them at vitacost.com on line for $20 for a 90 day supply.

Just thought I'd pass this along.

Hey bandster sisters and brothers,

I heard from my friend who is having her band done at the surgicenter on main that their price of $12,900 includes up to 2 years of aftercare. She had a free consultation and labs/ekg. I don't know about you guys but the band was priced two years ago when I had mine at 15,500. Now since I have the band I participate in their referral program where you get $100 american express check. Real good for X-mas!

My other friend was banded 4 months ago had to stay overnight at UGH due to her sleep apnea (more money she paid)...I never had to stay over night I had sleep apnea? I love Dr.Spiegel but these prices get me all raddled up :-):eek::ranger:

See also Dr. Kirshenbaum, his web site is in my signature, $9950 total for band, $15 fills for life, a lot of happy patients of his on this site (but general aftercare for only about 3 months as I recall, not 2 years).

As some feedback on the use of the Papaya Enzyme, it seems to be helping me get "unblocked" but it takes an hour or so to be effective. I am now taking one pill in the mornings as a "premptive strike" against getting the slimes in the first place. Becasue of what it is, I can see no issue with taking it on a regular basis. It seem to help keep thing moving and prevent blockages in the first place. When I get blocked, I take one or two more and wait the hour until it clears. I feel the daily dose is necessary for my situation because without doing this, I have a difficult time even drinking enough Water during the day to keep me hydrated.:spit::phanvan

If anyone sees any reason not to take one Papaya Enzyme in the morning on a regular basis, please let us know.

:attention::eek::help:

I'm no doctor, and I have not done an extensive study, but I will mention a couple thoughts on this Papaya Enzyme thing. I also take it sometimes and I have found it to be effective much of the time for getting things unstuck. But I do have a couple questions about taking it "pre-emptively." Papaya enzyme is actually the main ingredient in certain brands of meat tenderizer, so it seems like it could be tenderizing your innards a bit without doing much good. If there is nothing stuck, why take it? I think it works because it helps break down things that are stuck in the esophagus. But if there is nothing stuck, what is the benefit of taking it in advance? It almost seems like using a plunger in a toilet that is not stuck. If something is already through the band and in your stomach, your body's digestive juices can surely handle breaking down any food that's there. So, I'm a little unclear about the purpose of taking this pre-emptively.

Anyway, this is all just uneducated speculation. If anyone has any other information or point of view it may be more accurate.