BJean

Why nothing we have to worry our little heads about. We need to just butt out of that poor woman's business. Right patty?

Beth: "I'm saying it works both ways." BJean: Well, duh. What makes you and plain assume that I have taken the position of supporting gay marriage? Something I may have said previously? Plain, it really didn't or doesn't matter what I typed on my little machine here, you have argued against it. I absolutely do not have to post links or quote anybody or anything to support my viewpoints - I am the authority on all things and that should be enough proof for you when I make a statement. My friends, family and acquaintances know me as "The Source" Eat your heart out.* GREEN! Great to see you in print here. How's that marriage working out for you? Patty and I are glad that you finally get to consumate the relatiionship. Heh, heh, heh. *I've decided NONE of what I say or what you say makes one whit of difference anyway. We're all getting the swine flu today. Global warming, gay marriage, abortion and gun control are nothing we have to worry about anymore. Whee!

Beth: "I guess then it can be used against those who want to force something on the majority that is not popular opinion or creed as well and choose to hold blindly and intolerantly to their view as the only one that is acceptable." Uh, whut? I didn't make it up you know. Beth: "Thanks for the definition." Uh you're welcome, I think.

plain: "Regardless of which side of the issue you're on, I think it's beyond stupid to bash somebody on their opinion when it's asked of them." But isn't that exactly what you do to me nearly every time I try to answer one of your questions?

As for you folks who are unhappy with pattygreen's preaching, didn't she start this thread? Is it a surprise to anyone that she started it to give herself the opportunity to proselytize?

Labeling someone who doesn't agree with you isn't necessarily right, however when someone discriminates, for whatever reason, they are considered a bigot in our little world. The word bigot is defined as a person who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc. And they are also considered narrow-minded and prejudiced. It seems that the word "bigot" has been appropriately used in this thread.

"But terminating the pregnancy caused her so much pain that she tried to cover it with "drugs, alcohol, partying and a promiscuous lifestyle," she told radio host Rich Buhler in an interview with KBRT AM-740." Great piece of "news" from our favorite "news" source: Fox News. Anyone besides me think that this could be another couple who are doing all they can to further their argument against women's right to choose, rather than a sincere effort for the man to "adopt" dead tissue - which, btw, makes no sense at all on the face of it. It's shocking, I'll give them that. But then methinks that is the idea. Last point being, I'm sure that she did no "drugs, alcohol, partying" and didn't have a "promiscuous lifestyle" prior to her first pregnancy. She was a totally virtuous young lady, who was simply taken advantage of by some big bad boy. Only after the first abortion did she ignorantly choose to have unprotected sex that resulted in a second unwanted pregnancy and second abortion. Great story. Heart warming.

And see there, plain has a great sense of humor too!

Where've you been for the past 8+ years? Employers and corporations got some tax relief, in fact more than lower wage earners. Your theories on less tax for corporations and employers as being beneficial to their employees, have been disproven. It just hasn't worked that way, unfortunately. Greedy people at the top have kept that from happening and now this country is in one hellofa mess. What's happened to your short term memory? And yeah, lots of very wealthy folks love to donate - they benefit from it by using it for tax write offs. Yay them. If they donate anonymously and don't take tax deductions for it, THEN I'm impressed. Or if they do hands-on charity work, that's impressive.

McMad, obviously I do not understand the earned income tax credit. Don't you have to have paid into the system to receive money back or are you saying that some people receive money from the IRS without ever having paid in any money?

Actually Teridoodle, in Florida many years ago, they decided to raise sales taxes rather than real estate taxes. At a time when many cities/counties had a lower (around 6%) sales tax and higher real estate taxes, places in Florida had 8% sales tax with lower real estate tax assessments. Homeowners loved it. It worked pretty well too, especially in high tourist areas that did an enormous retail business selling to non-residents.

Jack of course there is fraud. There are dishonest people everywhere. Tax cheats are perpetrating a crime against the rest of us tax payers who do not cheat. Why would you call monies they get through dishonest means, a refund? You and Beth have labeled me uninformed and shockingly obtuse so why don't you just enlighten me instead of expecting me to google something - you know I can't read.

Huh? How else would you get a refund check? The gov doesn't send 'refund' checks if it isn't a refund from funds already paid. And if somebody is getting a refund check, I imagine that most of them have definitely paid some taxes. I believe that it would be very rare for anyone to get a refund of the entire amount that they had paid in throughout the year. I am more concerned with those people who don't "believe" in paying taxes and just flat refuse to file and pay what they owe.

Jack you seem to be saying that nearly half the people in America get a check from the government. Wha, wha, what? Just because some people don't make enough money to owe taxes, doesn't mean that they are getting welfare checks. Or am I totally missing the boat on your point this time too? You and I have a very different way of looking at things and interpreting statistics - well not true statistics, but numbers. jenaj: good post!

It was definitely refreshing. I may not agree with the way she conducts politics, but I do respect that she lives the life she preaches. Her daughter "walked the walk" too. They obviously are a very supportive family and that is a very good thing because her daughter needs it now and will for a long time.

My heart goes out to you Carrie. I hope you had someone who came into your life and rescued you.

HeatherO you stated the case perfectly. No one can argue with that logic, that's for sure. luluc: yours is not the first case I've heard of about an abuser coming after someone who was trying to help the abused. That is one reason why neighbors do not get involved when they know that terrible things are happening behind closed doors. We tried to help a psychologist neighbor of ours when one of her patients tried to strangle her. We took her to identify him at the police station and after that he began to harrass us. I am really sorry that your guy was even more deranged than ours was. That must have been a nightmare for you!

Ebony I used to be more of a person who believed that most people are doing the right thing, no matter how it may look. I sure grew up and changed my tune. Those small things that you did may have made a real difference in those children's lives. Parents and other caregivers are sometimes so strung out from stress and raising kids and all the things that life throws at them, they just cannot cope properly. I don't believe that there are many people who actually set out to kill or maim a child. The monsters that do get off on harming children are sick and should be banned from society forever. Everyone else needs people like you to step in when things are getting out of hand. I wish I had done it and I wish I knew for sure that that little girl at the Smithsonian was alive and well today.

you got that right, plain. Btw, there are Americans who refuse to pay taxes - period. They do not file, they do not pay, in many cases they are not in jail. Eventually they may go to jail, but it usually takes a really long time for Uncle Sam to catch up with them. And when he does, it may result in a fine, which the culprit is allowed to pay out on a schedule. So Sammy gets the money, if and when they decide to pay that. I know that there have been generations on welfare because my Mother worked in a job where she was exposed to it on a daily basis. I did think that there had been some changes made to the system and that it had become much harder to take advantage of welfare over a long period of time. But let's face it, there are dishonest people at the bottom of the barrel and there are crooks at the top bilking the system. Honest people in the middle seem to be hit the hardest.

Good for you kat! You are so right about taking on the task of checking into suspected abuse. Once I was in the American History Museum of the Smithsonian. It was very crowded but I noticed a man along one wall seemed to be coercing a little girl who seemed terrified. He was very quietly tugging her to go with him and she was resisting. What he was whispering to her I'll never know. I watched for a few seconds while trying to decide what to do, trying to determine if he was her father. I made a decision and quickly walked over to someone who was working there to get help because I didn't feel that I could confront the man alone. By the time we turned around he and that little girl were gone. Vanished. We looked all through the room and they were no where to be found. Unfortunately a door to the outside was not far from where we were and that was that. They were gone. I have turned that scene over and over in my mind so many times wishing I had just approached him and asked a simple question. Anything to slow it all down. Anything to help figure out if she was being abducted or if she was being corrected by her father. It still haunts me. I will never hesitate again if I have a question about the safety of a child.

Beth you don't deserve a response from me, so this is all you're gonna get. lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala.

Point taken, Beth. You said: "In the cases I've heard and read about where children died, it was after multiple investigations AND proof of abuse -- removing the child and then returning it to the home." So you were not citing statistics. My bad. You were only referencing cases you've heard about. Having lived in a state that is famous for child abuse and deaths at the hands of their caregivers, I learned that usually no investigation was involved when children were killed. Of course I am not saying that it never happens the way you described. One doesn't have to google to know that it does occur - we've all read about cases like that - but it is not what happens in most deaths.

Silly is claiming that I am denying anything. This discussion was between plain and me. You obviously are out of the loop.

Jack, surely you aren't suggesting that "mistakes" on one's tax returns are limited to the current administration officials? IF so, where were you when all of the inquiries into similar "mistakes" of past administration officials and Congressmen were done?

luluc I did not know that. I am a big fan too and for the reasons you mentioned! Makes me proud to be a Texan... I guess. :-)