BJean

And Cleo's, the Republicans in Texas have been a hot bed of corruption. It is very frustrating to learn of all the things that they did when Bush was the governor and later as president. Some of the most outrageous and nefarious men have been prosecuted, but most have not.

The Republican administration and congress did much worse than anything you have described patty. As have Republicans before them. As far as compromise is concerned, you obviously have never served on a board of directors or been a PTA president or served in any other capacity where compromise is the only way that progress can be made. Even in a marriage, compromise is the necessary component to keep things on an even kiel. But I'm sure you'll disagree with that. Since you have such a righteous life and marriage, I'm sure that God settles all disputes that you may have with your spouse.

Oh I agree that it makes sense. But I don't honestly think that patty sees it that way.

Oh and as it bit John McCain because of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Forgot to mention poor old McCain.

patty: "As I read your post, I am laughing at how backwards you are. Bad people will eventuelly pay the piper. Those bad people will be paying with their jobs in November." patty was talking about my post that ended with a look back at Richard Nixon. Well as for the elections patty, you may well be right. Democrats might be losing their jobs. The Republicans will lie, cheat, steal, misrepresent and lie some more in order to buy a seat in congress. The Democrats are not willing to do that. So yeah, the Republicans might win their seats back. But I stand by my statement that they will pay the piper eventually. Their wicked behavior will wind up biting them like it bit Richard Nixon.

Wow, how surprising, no rebuttal for Cleo's post. If the middle class and poor people in this country don't think this is a signal of bad things to come for them, they don't understand much about big money. Corporations are not people!! Corporations are entities that are made up of many people (or sometimes a few) and often stockholders who vote. They are all simply interested in making money. That is their reason for being. Most of them do not have a conscience or a reason to be fair to their consumers. That's why government oversight came into being and if you don't understand that, I'm surprisedl. (Ooops, sorry I'm referring to Cleo's post about corporations, previous page)

Love your cartoon, Wendy!

There is no question in my mind that patty would vote for the death penalty for Scott Roeder if she were on his trial jury. How could she think any differently? Or is it like Iraq, where if the right wing extremists believe that a country might be a threat, they deserve to die and in God's eyes, bombing Iraq and killing people was the right thing to do. So if you put it in these terms, maybe patty will think that Scott Roeder is some kind of hero? Killing people to save other people - God's for it, eh?

Interesting information. I don't trust anything coming out of Fox though. I suspect that there is some kind of reverse psychology going on and that it will be followed with a backlash mentality that will ensure defeat of the issues and candidates they don't like. They are very good at what they do. Please understand that I don't mean what they do is good.

Right again. I like to think that the Democrats do not go to school on the Republican strategies because they have scruples that the Republicans lack. This morning they were saying that Nancy Pelosi stated that the health care bill will not pass in the time frame she promised because they have to take their time to be as fair as possible to both sides of the aisle. Barney Frank was saying that they definitely could not take a Senate vote until the new guy from Mass is on board because it wouldn't be fair. It is frustrating beyond belief to put up with the dishonesty and unfair dealings of the Republicans, and have our Democratic leaders turn around and defer to those folks' wishes. But, to be honest, I wouldn't be happy if our representatives in congress played that dirty. As I said once before, in my experience, bad people will eventually pay the piper. It might take a long time, but eventually lies, cheating and stealing catches up to you. And always in a very bad way. I think Richard Nixon is an example of that.

Yes I'm sure you're right. I think of the term TARP as being the bailout, financially of the banks. I am easily confused though so please keep me on track when I rant off in some presumptuous and incorrect direction. For the life of me I can't understand the logic of the right wingers. It just makes no sense at all. They hate paying taxes and bellyache about it in high pitched frustrated tones but then they defend tax cuts and incentives to large corporations and the wealthy. Which essentially means that they're presonally taking it in the gut so that the rich can get richer and they get a little poorer. They say it's that they just don't want taxes for anyone, but that's balderdash. We have to pay taxes to be able to have country that runs smoothly and takes care of the things that people demand from their goverment - such as being safe from threats from terrorists, and of course enjoying all the other benefits of living in a wonderful country.

And patty, regarding the banks, I wasn't saying that the banks should be taxed unfairly. In fact, I'm not sure where you got that. But my complaint is that they are not conducting business since getting the TARP money, as they should be.

Now not only will the fat cats be lobbying congressional members to ensure that they are protected, they'll be putting the same kind of information out to the general public. I sure hope this backfires on them. But I don't have much faith in the general public. We seem to be easily sucked in by their smooth talk and slick PR.

And I didn't say ALL banks - you said that. I just said "the" banks which was probably confusing. When people have a long record of employment with a solid company, they have saved up to make a 20% down payment, have a long record of paying their rent or mortgage and have done everything they need to do to prove that they are a good loan candidate, then the banks should be willing to offer a loan to them so that they can buy a house. This is what will get the housing industry back on track.

All banks didn't get TARP money so what? That is so not the point. Banks were bailed out so they would prevent the country from going down the tubes. If they don't make loans and keep the economy going, then we'll continue on a downward spiral. It's pretty simple really. Maybe I should explain it in Republican fairy tale terms. As an example: Trickle down: banks make lots of money from their fees and loan rates, which is good because when they make lots of profit and become very rich, they are eager to loan money which means that people can buy homes, cars and luxury items. Those manufactured goods create jobs. Middle class America gets to work and get paid and borrow money and buy stuff. The economy prospers. That's what Republicans want you to believe happens. Real life in America today: banks got really greedy, made bad, bad loans and decisions because of their greed. That created a housing bubble where the price of homes skyrocketed and an artificial market was created. People lost jobs because of their greedy employers farming the work overseas and across the borders. Then banks were stuck with people who could not pay their mortgages or for the money they were carrying on plastic. The bubble burst and we bailed the banks out because if the major banks had failed, we would have experienced a huge financial collapse - far worse than the one we did have. So banks got their money, they are still viable and healthy but now they are just sure that more people are going to default on their loans so they don't want to risk losing the money they're making and so they don't want to make loans. Sooo they don't make loans, people don't buy goods and services, homes, luxury items, etc., the manufacture of these things ceases and the housing market and retail market don't rebound. That may not be how anybody else in the world sees it, but that's how I see it.

"arrogant" the word du jour, eh?

patty: "No. It doesn't matter what they believe or what their church doctrine puts forth, if it doesn't line up with the word of God, it is wrong." But that is the whole point. Their beliefs and doctrine align totally with the word of God.

In my part of the country, which is probably one of the slowest to feel the impact of national problems, the banks aren't lending money. They've counseled the appraisers that they are only willing to loan the assessed (for real estate taxes) value and even then will make the buyer jump through hoops to get that. I understand why they might want to be cautious, but what our economy needs is for people to borrow and the housing industry to bounce back. In our neighborhood we have buyers. They are perfectly willing to pay what the homes are worth (based solely on cost to build plus improvements - no inflation or appreciation considered) but the appraisers won't value the houses as they should because nothing has sold in the last 8 months. So here we sit in our pre-owned homes, unable to move up or down because the darned banks won't play fair. Our tax money bailed them out and now they're slapping us in the face like this. If the banks were willing to make home loans, the economy would start moving again in the right direction - at least insofar as housing is concerned. This is something that our president should get involved in since the congress is stuck, as usual.

Well my goodness, you don't have any problem straightening people out who have differeing views from yours, eh? And here I thought I had a monopoly on that. You seem to think you know a thing or two also. Amazing. (I'm kidding.) Of course you have every right to your own thoughts on the issues. I merely voiced my own opinion. You don't have to get so defensive. I'm sure you read stuff and have exposure to medical treatment just like everybody else. And of course you've read the proposed legislation and know why it would be so bad for all Americans. But the last thing I think I can do, or want to do, is crawl inside your head. It is quite enough to read your big, blue emphasized print. You say you understand the need for changing the health care system. I believe you have elsewhere even given some examples of people you know who would like to cross state lines to get better insurance. But you don't want THIS particular change. So enlighten me. Tell me exactly what your team proposes to improve things. Yeah, I know. Whatever it is, don't touch the insurance industry except for possibly allowing people to go across state lines to get it. Why do so many people think that it is quite acceptable for the insurance industry to manage their health care down to the very last pill they need? Blondie: It really does just bite huh? Yeah, well that's enlightening. What do you want congress to do?

We were lied to. Congress was lied to. The Bush administration manipulated people and misrepresented intelligence reports. They used fear to get Congress to go to war. They called people unpatriotic who didn't go along. Your post is propaganda, patty. We have not accomplished what we were told we were seeking. We killed thousands of innocent people. We razed the infrastructure of Iraq. By doing so, the terrorists gained sympathy and support from people who had not given them support in the past. The terrorists have become stronger, not weaker. They are a bigger threat now than ever. We allowed a man (men) to take over our country, take away some of our very cherished basic freedoms and yet people still believe the lies. And now those same people who were sucked in by the fear mongering and lies, are doing all they can to undermine the new president . A president who was elected by a resounding outcry of Americans who did understand what had been going on. My God this country is a scary place.

Different people have lifted verses from the Bible since its' inception and have eventually developed church doctrines based on them. Seventh Day Adventist is just one example of that. Christian Science is another. There are hundreds more, perhaps thousands. Yet you believe that you can read the Bible and have all the answers. In fact, you believe that so strongly you go about telling everyone exactly what is right and what is wrong based on your beliefs. And you make judgements about everyone else based on those beliefs. Your faith should be a personal relationship between you and God. But you preach from this Lap Band pulpit. And the part that is so distasteful to others is that you don't take responsibility for your beliefs, your Biblical interpretations or your faith. Instead you claim that you get your authority through the Bible and that it is literally God's word. You make broad statements, generalizations and judgements and claim that YOU are not saying it that it is God who is saying it. It doesn't matter what any other person believes or what any church doctrine puts forth based on the Bible. If their beliefs differ from your very specific, single-minded beliefs, they are wrong. And if one is not "born again" they're going to hell. We would be delighted if you had the ultimate answer to all life's questions. Unfortunately you do not. But the most unfortunate part is that you know not that you know not. I believe that you think you are on a mission from God here but I believe that you are actually on a quest for higher learning. I hope that you will eventually open yourself up to expanding your spirituality and that you won't have to depend so much on this blind faith that keeps you nailed to the ground.

I found this interesting dialogue excerpt today. Thought I'd share it since it relates to some of the debates that we've had about politics and war in the U.S.A. Note the date. Nazi Leader Herman Goering, interviewed by Gustave Gilbert during the Easter recess of the Nuremberg trails, 1946 April 18, quoted in Gilbert’s book, Nuremberg Diary: Goering, “Naturally the common people don’t want war… but it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.” Gilbert: “There is one difference. In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.” Goering: “Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the biding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Bob if I disagreed with everything you say, I'd probably give you a hard time about it, but you do make some interesting points and you bring another viewpoint to the discussion. It's all good!

P.S. We do not consider debating issues "garbage." We consider these issues life in the United States. Sure you can ignore them and call them garbage, but they won't go away no matter how much you'd like them to.

Did you read kat's post, gramma-o? Lap Band Talk gives people a forum to discuss lots of things that we're bothered about or happy about. The thing that we all have in common is the lap band. But that is not the only thing on our minds. We understand that you're uncomfortable with the Rants & Raves threads at LBT, but it fills a need for those of us who do enjoy it. Rather than taking it away from us, why don't you just confine yourself to the threads and topics that you enjoy?