BJean

You gals rock my world! In a really good way!

rtgirl77: I apologize to everyone for allowing myself to lose control and insult someone here. However if it provoked your post rtgirl77, I am glad that something so sweet and beautiful came of it. Thank you TOM for your posts. Once again they touch my heart and speak for me much better than I can.

rtgirl77: Just curious. What do you think that Obama would do to cause disaster if he were president?

Wheetsin: All we need is love. And boy is that demonstrated here. I would love to have Jesus log on and see what is being presented in the name of the Bible here. The condesension, the hatefulness, the venom. It is sickening. You could be entirely without emotion about this topic and get sick to your stomach after reading much of this. I know why we keep butting our heads against the proverbial wall, but even though it will never infuse some of us with love and respect for one another, it is enlightening in so many ways. I appreciate your post. My heart goes out to Rev. White.

I am sick and tired of listening to you say that the scriptures are not up for interpretation, Ron. Yet that is exactly what you do on a continual basis. You pick and choose and you tell us here exactly what you have decided each scripture you're citing means, ad naseum. If anyone started reading this thread and believed something you said to be God's word, it wouldn't take them long to see that they better be very careful listening to you. You are manipulative and you use the Bible to answer every argument. Why can't you take responsibility for what you say? If someone disagrees with you, you say that you aren't the one saying it, the Bible is. I'm sick of it. Take responsibility for your words - YOUR WORDS - the ones that you are constantly spewing here. You have an opinion, own up to it. You like the fact that conservative Republicans are pro-death, pro-war, anti-help for the needy, anti-choice, against gun control, etc., etc., etc. These are your choices... own up to them. Because when you do not, your whole argument about scriptures, the Bible's teachings and your ministry appear to be a sham. One man's power struggle. And a seemingly not very bright man at that.

Thanks for calling this to our attention, TOM.

OMG- he's such an embarrassment - and that is being generous! I am so glad I missed it. I have received a couple of heart wrenching forwarded emails today about soldiers in Iraq, both fallen and those butting their heads against the wall right now. This situation is an abomination! This president is an abomination!

Sunta: I'll bet you're absolutely right!

Jachut: Not to worry... you'll have lots and lots of time to establish yourself as the mother of the year! It takes a while to get into a routine and I'll bet every mother of the year has a slip up from time to time! I'll never forget my first speeding ticket. We had just moved to Arizona, enrolled my 1st grader and was trying to get the house all set up and organized. I got the dreaded phone call, raced to get him and the friendly gendarme slapped me with a reality check. It only takes a time or two to get it all working smoothly!

I guess the big difference is that some of us come from a place of working these things out between ourselves, using our own inelligence and rationale. Others of us rely on our churches to guide us in following the path to successful marriages as set out for us in the Bible. Thankfully it sounds like most of the churches represented here do not use Bible passages to keep women barefoot and pregnant, figuratively speaking. Thank the Lord for that!

Sunta: I hear you. I know you can certainly be correct. But if Anna Nicole's mother had a lot of love for her daughter, instead of displaying so much scorn for her behavior she would be talking about her love and that perhaps her daughter was misunderstood, etc., instead of being so concerned about the dispensation of Anna Nicole's money and gloating over the fact that she was right about Anna's drug use. Anna Nicole was into some drugs before she ever met Stern. The fact that she did trust him and did feel that he was looking out for her, tells me that at some point he had to have proved his loyalty to her and it makes me want to give him a fair shot at proving that his love and concern for her was legitimate. The way he spoke about her family sounded to me like a person who was upset with them about how they treated Anna Nicole when she was alive and like he is still protecting her from their meanness and greed. Quite a contrast to how Anna Nicole's mother is behaving. It has all been filtered through the media though, so it's anyone's guess at this point. It seems that maybe our own experiences are having a big impact on how we are interpreting the remarks and body language of her family, friends and Stern. I know it is seedy and scandelous to some people, but I believe it is always interesting to witness and try to understand human behavior.

OUSooner: WELL SAID!!!

P.S. That Anna Nicole's mother is speaking about Anna's money and who gets it, immediately after her death, speaks volumes to me.

Sunta: I agree that Stern should be held accountable. But a lot of women I know have been hurt terribly by an abusive PARENT or sibling. When they find someone to protect them, the protector wants to spare the hurt one from any further pain. They try to shield them from phone calls and other contact because they see the pain and have to deal with the aftermath of one of those phone calls. One of my sisters could reduce me to rubble with a phone call like that. My husband wanted to protect me because he loved me. He would run interference by intercepting a phone call for which I was always grateful. I admit I didn't see the Larry King show, but I have vowed to myself to not jump to any conclusions. The only information we have now is what the media has chosen to give us. Many times we learn that the truth is something quite different from how it is portrayed initially. We probably all agree that an in-depth investigation is in order.

TOM: I knew Ron was totally wrong on the black crime stats, but I have no stats at my fingertips to disprove it and so I decided to let it go and hope everyone knew better. I am thrilled that you posted even though it might have gone against your wife's wishes. I am very sorry for your losses. It always makes you wonder when things happen all at once sometimes. I do hope your DW is feeling better already. I am sure she is anxious to be with her mother. Please know that we are thinking of you and wishing you the very best. Thanks again for your post~!

And a truly sad twist will be if Howard Stern really did have something to do with her death. The one constant in her life that she relied on. I know that people with a drug problem can become totally reliant on their supplier and will take almost any abuse the supplier dishes out just so they have a ready supply of their drug of choice. We have a friend whose husband beat her, threw her out of a second story window, cursed her and slapped her in front of their children and she always kept him in her life. No one understood until he got sent to prison for 40 years for drug trafficking. In no time, she found a guy to fill her husband's shoes and the same behavior began all over again. I think her drug of choice is methamphetimines according to her physical appearance.

People come out of the woodwork because they want to be on TV. The audience tends to believe them because it is exciting and titillating. We want to believe that we are much better off than anyone who has trouble in their lives. Especially if they are financially better off and more famous than we are. Her mother said that she never gave the family any money. "Vickie" stayed away from her family and left home at an early age (which her mother was thankful for since she didn't want the embarrassment of having her in the same town), so anything that her family or former childhood friends have to say at this point is sour grapes as far as I'm concerned. And even worse, it is adding insult to the injury they have already caused to Anna.

Ron: If you really do not expect laurend to compromise her current morals by accepting your interpretation of the Bible, why are you arguing with her?

P.S. I feel that I need to add that when we were first married and struggling to find a way to make our marriage work, he was bahaving the way his father did by trying to be the dominate one in the marriage. I was behaving as my mother did and treated him like he was more important than I. When we realized after two years that we were both very unhappy in our marriage, we consulted a psychologist and learned some very interesting things. First we realized that he was having to carry the weight of the world by making all of the important decisions and being the breadwinner, with the responsibility for all of us squarely on his shoulders 24/7. Second, I was feeling like I had no voice in anything of any importance and that I was totally a second-class citizen in our household. I wondered if HIS life was the only important one. I realized that this was MY LIFE TOO and that everything that happened to him had a direct impact on me. We also talked about that in both of our parents' traditional marriages where the husband made most of the decisions, the husband and wife grew to resent each other over the years and they became hateful toward each other much of the time. We sure didn't want to live the rest of our lives resenting each other and feeling trapped. With lots of reading and a serious willingness to make some changes, we evolved from following in our parents' footsteps to sharing everything with each other and discussing and understanding every aspect of our relationship and our household. It was not easy. It took quite a bit of effort, but we knew we were worth it as individuals and as a couple.

My husband and I are opposites too. We have learned that when something is very important to one of us and not so important to the other (and that is almost 100% the case) the one who doesn't feel it is as important makes the compromise. In my house, my husband is the primary breadwinner. That gives his voice more weight when a decision involves his job (as in where we live) because it has a direct impact on how he does his job, but he still does not make those decisions without my input. When we first got married, he used to tell me that if I were smart I would use my female-ness to manipulate him. I always told him that in my eyes, that would be unfair and I would never be comfortable doing that. Instead we talk through everything. Our families always thought we analyzed things too much. But that's the way we make decisions and that is the path we've taken that allows both of us to feel we are equal in this marriage. As for male/female roles in their marriages, our DD and DS both have completely equal partnerships. While I tend to take care of most domestic things in our home, with my DH doing the usual man things like the yard, cars, etc., our kids don't make even that distinction in their marital roles. They do everything as a team, from the laundry and meals to the yard and cars and raising the kids. I like their way better than ours, but since our approach has worked so well for so long, I won't tamper with a good thing.

Wheetsin: I really loved your story and that you shared it with us. Your grandfather must have been a really wonderful man and he, fortunately, was able to have you in his life too.

I've always thought that the cool thing about murder with knives versus guns is that it takes a whole lot more time and effort to kill someone with a knife than with a loaded pistol. Maybe someone will have time to reconsider the notion of killing someone with a knife.

I'm like most of you too. I was the youngest in the family, never babysat except once which cured me from the whole idea of babysitting, and unruly kids drove me batty. I'm also like Green's mom, although I never liked other people's kids, I sure love my own like there's no tomorrow. I only had two kids. I love them both completely but differently. Each of them has different traits and good qualities. They both have some things that I wish were a little different. I enjoy being with them one on one and hearing all their innermost thoughts and feelings. The best time for me though is when I have all my "chicks in one basket", my babies, their spouses and their babies. It's amazing when we're all together.

Lisa: I think you're very smart. I was one of those people who had a child for all the wrong reasons. It was very stupid and I regretted it, big time. I love my DS of course, but that doesn't take away from the fact that I should not have made the decision for the reasons that I did.

Amen! Considering all of the consequences when deciding to have children is something many people also fail to do. That is selfish as well as stupid.