ElfiePoo

According to my surgeon, if you're following the rules (toddler sized bites, chew well, eat slowly, no drinking with meals) and you're getting stuck on the 'good' choices, it's most likely time for a slight unfill. The bad stuff will always go down. Don't expect the band to give you physical restriction. It doesn't work that way for everyone. Just look for a cessation of hunger after a reasonable meal (3 oz protein, 1/2-1 cup vegies) for about 4 hours. *That* is the sweet spot. .

I do Atkins (low carb (<30), moderate Protein (30%), high fat (60%)). I'm not sure what the food Addict's percentages are, but wouldn't be at all surprised to find they're also low fat...which is really not necessary, but I won't go there in this post. After reading Dr. Bernstein's "Diabetes Solution" and Gary Taubes "Why We Get Fat", I became more convinced that it wasn't just enough to go low carb...I needed to rid myself of those carbs that cause an immediate glycemic reaction (which causes hunger and cravings for more of those carbs). So that's exactly what I did. I cut out all grains, fruit and starchy vegetables. The only dairy I eat is cheese. There are no nutrients in these missing foods that I don't get in my vegetables. The first week was the hardest because I was withdrawing from the carbs...but after that week. Wow. I've been doing this consistently (meaning no little mistakes or cheats) for several months now and I'm never hungry or craving. Where I used to struggle to eat no more than 1200 calories, now I'm eating about 900 just because that's what makes me content. I can walk past a vending machine, fast food place or even pass by the forbidden dish if I'm eating at someone's home because the *desire* to eat is gone. Both Bernstein and Taubes talk about this inability to process these carbs as a metabolic disorder. Our bodies don't process these carbohydrates in the way it should. So we should avoid them. Just as the alcoholic must avoid alcohol. Not everyone has this problem. Some people get fat because they're emotional eaters. Some because they love their sweets and goodies. Some just because they're so darned sedentary that even 1800 calories is way over what their body is using. Others get fat doing all the right things (according to the traditional thinking) because it means eating a diet that is high (50% or more) in carbs...which creates physical cravings and hunger and a demand for even more of these carbs. So in answer to your question, can someone eat this way for life? Yes, just as some alcoholics can avoid alcohol their entire lives so we (the people who do not correctly metabolize certain carbs) can avoid our carbs. Taubes and Bernstein believe this is a healthy way of eating for everyone. I agree with them *BUT* do not believe everyone needs to eat this way. If their body can process the grains, fruit and starchy vegies...more power to them. I wish mine could...but it can't. I eat scrambled eggs in a bit of butter for Breakfast every morning, but I like eggs. There are other options. lunch is either a chef's salad with a chopped up hardboiled egg, 1/2 oz crumbled bacon, 1/2 oz shredded cheese and 2 Tbs of homemade full fat blue cheese dressing or chicken/tuna salad made with mayo and celery on half a tomato or bed of lettuce or just 3 oz of protein (pan fried, grilled, roasted, etc.) and a cup of vegies with a bit of butter or sprinkling of parmesan cheese. dinner is the same as lunch. Oh...my new daughter-in-law's stepmother has been following something called a 'Grey Sheet' from Overeater's Anonymous for the last 20+ years. She *never* strays, just as an alcoholic can never stray. She started at 450 pounds and has maintained a weight of 125 pounds for 20 years. So it can be done long term. The question you need to answer is...why do *you* eat? If I can help further, I'd be more than happy to. .

^^THIS^^. You also have to keep in mind that you've just delivered your body a big shock. You've lowered your calories *and* fat *and* you're exercising. Be patient and just keep doing what you're doing. You aren't going to lose every week. You may not even lose for a month. Just be patient. .

It's not a conversion. There is no reversal/conversion of bypass. What they're doing is placing a band *in addition to* in order to help the person deal with the hunger. There is a honeymoon phase with bypass (and sleeve) where the ghrelin is shut off so there's no hunger. After awhile though, the body figures out how to produce it again so a number of sleeve and bypass patients are getting the band in addition to their previous surgery which cannot be reversed. .

Some people have no hunger without fills. Some need fills. For now, I'd just go with portioning your meals and doing the best you can at going 4-5 hours to your next meal. If you need a small mid-meal snack, have a hard boiled egg or piece of cheese or some type of Protein...even a low carb/low cal Protein shake will work because it's the protein that helps with the hunger. My surgeon said 3 oz of protein and 1/2-1 cup of vegies at a meal. I do Atkins so that fit perfectly with the way I chose to eat. .

Na-na...step away from the wings! At 4 weeks postop and no fill, it's not surprising that you can still eat the way you did pre-band. Some lucky people get restriction just from the band. Most need some amount of fill. Even then, many people get no physical restriction from the band even when they get a cessation of the hunger. Don't wait for the band to start helping. Make good choices now. Choose the right foods. Choose to put down the fork. Hang in there...it gets better. .

This is why I said my child would have had to discuss rationally why he wants to eat vegetarian. If it was just to avoid the foods he didn't like, then my answer would have been 'no'. If it was because of a moral reason, then no problem. A child who's smart enough to use the moral reason when it isn't...well, they'll soon find out that a lot of their favorite 'junk' food is made with animal products (fats, etc.). Like you, I feel it is my duty as a parent to teach my children to eat a balanced diet and I don't believe I'm setting them up for an eating disorder by making them try 2 bites of a dish before they refuse it. There is nothing I hate more than hearing an adult say "Ew...I can't stand <insert food here>" and they've never even tried it. Such unreasonable thought processes rarely stay segregated to one part of their life.

Ok I'm probably going to get flamed from the "the Dr. is God and one must bow and obey exactly" crowd, but your doctor set you up to fail with an unreasonable postop diet. There is absolutely no reason to be on clear liquids for a week postop so I wouldn't stress about eating a SF pudding. Many of us were back on regular foods in 2 weeks, going through each stage of the diet in 2-3 days rather than a week at each stage. At 5 days postop I was drinking Protein smoothies (about as thick as a milkshake). On day 6 I could start on mushies...solid food with no substantial shape (oatmeal, etc.). I'm not suggesting you just toss their instructions to the trash, but realize that it is just this doctor's opinion and opinions vary widely so you have no reason to feel like a failure! Personally, at this point I'd be making it a point to get in some Protein shakes because that protein is what is going to help you with your hunger...and healing. Flame on, Johnny! .

Clear liquids for a week doesn't make sense since every medical site I've found out there says that you don't get adequate nutrition from clear liquids and shouldn't stay on them for more than 4-5 days...although I suppose you could get those clear Protein 'shooters' from GNC. At least then you'd get your protein in which might help with the hunger. .

If it's not your insurance company, I'd find another doctor...and if they're saying it is an insurance requirement, I'd talk to the insurance company myself. I interviewed 6 doctors before I made my final choice and one of the surgeons did have a 1 year diet and exercise program. Not surprisingly, this was an additional charge because the insurance company didn't pay for things like this. .

I haven't...but I know a number of people who have and have been happy with their choice. Some of them are here on this forum. I hope they'll step forward. .

Some people might get tired of me repeating this on various forums, but c'est la vie. The band never did help with my hunger or even with my cravings. Oh there were times I thought it did, but it was never consistent enough for me to ever say the band was really helping. Due to complications, I finally had my band out last week *BUT* have known since last November this was a possibility so I was trying a lot of things to find some way of controlling my eating because I really didn't want to do a sleeve revision. I inadvertently discovered that both my cravings and hunger were caused by certain carbs. I've always done low carb and never got that appetite suppression or lack of cravings that people talk about...until I eliminated grains, fruit and starchy vegetables from my diet. Within a week, I noticed I was happier with less. I was eating 900 calories a day whereas before I struggled to stay within my 1200 range. The best part is that I've lost the desire to eat. Just a thought for people still struggling with cravings. It may be that, like me, your body is particularly sensitive to certain carbs because they have a more immediate and drastic reaction on your body's insulin production (very likely if you are hypoglycemic or diabetic) which causes physical cravings. .

You are correct. I had to have my band removed due to complications and was thinking of a sleeve revision. During my reading, I discovered that many bypass and sleeve patients are going back to get bands to control the hunger...which comes back after their 'honeymoon' period. When I spoke to my surgeon about this, he said that the band is considered a tool for getting rid of hunger. The sleeve is considered a tool for restriction only. .

Go back to your doctor and tell them that that obviously misunderstand the purpose of the band and demand a fill. According to the band manufacturers, *HUNGER* is the main reason for getting a fill in the band. The function of the band is to put enough pressure on the vagus nerves to stop the stomach from producing ghrelin, the hunger hormone after a reasonable meal. Obviously, your band needs more fill to do that. I swear...we have to pass a driver's test to get a license. They should make some of these idiot doctors pass a competency test so they actually understand how the band works.

Yes, please e-mail me the pattern! Thanks!

It depends on your body. For some people, eating less works. For people like me who are very carb sensitive, eating less does not result in weight loss unless I also lower my carbs. Here's a typical day for me: B: 2 eggs, scrambled L: Chef's salad with romaine, chopped hard boiled egg, 1/2 oz cheese, 1/2 oz crumbled bacon, 2 Tbs full fat homemade blue cheese dressing *OR* chicken/tuna salad made with 3 oz tuna/chicken, mayo and celery on half a tomato D: 3 oz Protein, 1 cup low carb vegies

Crystal, That is gorgeous! Is the center block made up of tiny leaves? .

Yes <knock on wood>...I woke up after surgery and was able to lift and move my arm in ways that I haven't been able to do (without serious pain) since my previous band surgery. The surgeon said that even if scar tissue grows back, the pain shouldn't come back since it wasn't the scar tissue bumping up against the diaphragm that caused the pain. It was the scar tissue shoving the plastic (or whatever it's made from) of the band up against the diaphragm. As soon as my stomach is healed, I'm making an appointment for a massage to deal with the poor muscles in my shoulder and neck that have been stressed from the shoulder pain. .

There are a couple different groups of thought on snacking (and I'm referring to small mid-meal type Snacks, not junk) or eating just 3 meals. For awhile there was a school of thought that said 6 small meals were better for diabetics because they had less impact on the insulin production of diabetics. You have to keep in mind though that these were the same people who were still recommending a diet that was 45% carbs and, in such a case, they'd be right to do 6 small meals to keep the carb overload down. The new thought for diabetics is that 3 meals, no snacking is best because every time we eat, our bodies start producing insulin. For Type 2 diabetics that wash of insulin creates its own set of problems which promotes insulin resistance. The only way to do this though is to drastically reduce the amount of carbs and the type of carbs that create an immediate rush of insulin. I used to be 6 small meals a day. Now I eat 3 and my blood sugar stays stable without those mid-meal snacks...but it meant eliminating grains, fruit, milk and starchy vegies. For many banded, there's no difficulty in eating 1200 calories because the band doesn't give any physical restriction. For those with such restriction that they can't eat more than a couple bites, lots of small meals may be necessary and maybe even Protein supplements. My doctor's nurse had a vertical sleeve and can only eat about 1/4 cup of food at a time. As a result, she has to eat every 2-3 hours in order to get in all her nutrition. .

I use the EAS chocolate powder from Sam's Club and mix it with unsweetened almond milk. Total real carbs - 4. So many of these things will give you net carbs and than actual carbs. I'm one who has to count all carbs because it makes a difference between losing and not.

SwanGal, If you're still here, you might enjoy reading Gary Taubes' "Why We Get Fat". Great information on why many of us have a problem with certain carbs. Another good one is Dr. Bernstein's "The Diabetic Solution". Great explanations for why people with metabolic disorders (e.g. diabetes) have a problem with carbs. .

Actually, ketosis will not harm healthy kidneys. Too many people confuse ketosis with ketoacidosis and they are not the same thing. However, I always drink 64 fl oz of water every day just because ketosis tends to give me dragon breath but if I drink my water, it dilutes the ketones (which certain can't hurt the kidneys by doing so) and reduces the ketosis breath. .

It depends on the individual. Some don't...some have to. As a general rule, you can eat a bit more calories on a low carb (under 60gm/day) diet than you can on the more traditional higher carb diet. There was a time when I didn't have to count calories on low carb and I know I was eating close to 3000 calories a day during which time I lost 70 pounds in 3 months. I'm older now, diabetic and insulin resistant. No way can I eat that level of calories and expect to lose, so yes I do count. Although I will say that where I struggled to stay on 1200 calories eating less than 30gm carbs per day, once I quit eating grains, fruit, dairy and starchy vegetables, my calories dropped to 900 just because that's all I need. No more hunger or cravings. .

OMG...yes, if I hear one more person say Atkins is bad for you because you can't eat carbs and it's an all you can eat...and all the fat you can eat diet, my head is going to explode! As we know, you can eat carbs at whatever tolerance level you have. Mine, most likely due to my insulin resistance, is very low and limited to non-starchy vegies - no grains, fruit or dairy. Atkins never promoted an all you can pork down food fest. He didn't place a lot of emphasis on calories because he believed that if you're staying within your carb tolerance threshhold, you'd automatically cut your intake due to lack of cravings as well as the appetite suppressing effects of low carb...until I paid attention to not just the number of carbs, but the type of carbs. Now, without deliberately counting, my calories are coming in around 900 a day just because that's what I'm satisfied on. For those unfamiliar with Atkins, or only familiar with it as portrayed by the media and those who've obviously never read his book, Atkins is low carb (not no-carb), moderate Protein (30%) and high fat (60-70%). Obviously, not unlimited. Sure hope some of you are still here! I just found this forum! .

I think the same can be said of WW, Jenny Craig or any other 'diet'. The proof is in how many people are getting WLS. If you can eat the traditional, high carb diet promoted by the FDA, then more power to you, but for those of us who got fat eating exactly that way...well, we have had to step outside the traditionally accepted and I thank God for people like Dr Bernstein (The Diabetes Solution), Dr. Atkins and Gary Taubes (Why We Get Fat) who've risked ridicule to go against the norm. None of these men have been stupid enough to say low carb is the *only* way. What they've said is, if you have a metabolic disorder and carbs are making you fat...then stop the madness (as Susan Powter used to say). I went on an 800 calorie Optifast diet and lost nothing over a one month period, despite the fact that prior to that I was eating about 2300 calories or more. If it was just about a calorie deficiency, I should've lost something. I gained 12 pounds in my first month on Weight Watchers. Only on a low carb diet have I been successful at losing weight and, even then, it wasn't until I quit eating grains, dairy, fruits and starchy vegies that I was able to get off my insulin. Best of all, I discovered that these were the source of my hunger. Once I got them out of my system, I was able to 'naturally' eat 900 calories a day and, bonus, began losing 2 lb a week a year after being banded and only averaging *maybe* a pound a week. Studies show that people with metabolic disorders (e.g. hypoglycemia or diabetes) do not process certain carbs in the way normal people do and continuing to eat them is a bit like someone with Celiac refusing to give up gluten. We all need to determine the reason for our obesity. For some it's simply a matter of controlling how much they eat and choosing healthy options. For some of us, that's just not enough. Bottom line - pay attention to what your body is telling you. Record what you're eating in something like fitday.com or livestrong.com so you know for a 'fact' what your intake is and not just a vague "I'm following the rules". Then, if you're not losing (or even gaining) or you're still craving and having a problem controlling your choices...try something different. .