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PG, Knows the definition. She just likes to make up stuff in her mind. Sort of like the imaginary friends with kids. They happen to be real to her, the word murder is real to her, but the rest of us just look at her and shake our head since we know the legal definition.

PG, We have already established you are an anomaly, so that says nothing bolstering your argument.

What pray tell does being from Chicago have to do with anything?

"My point is that you can't always condemn the people in an organization because the person in charge is a douche. While I don't agree that the dude you mentioned founded the teaparty movement (although maybe he founded some website), but even if he did, the reasons I identify with that movement have nothing to do with President Obama being black." You mentioned the analogy between Wright and Obama, not me. I can condemn them because as I said before the founders intent was obvious from day 38, (and I didn't hear about them until shortly after Obama took office) and since everyone here is supposed to be so social aware then people should have known their guy had this racist intent, (way before Obama started spending I might add) SO he had no reason at all at 38 days to hate Obama. If you belong to this group, and were so socially aware, you would have known his "deficit" and spending argument was a beard. If you were not social aware of what you had joined and who had formed it, as stated in previous posts, then you followed their agenda without understanding the foundation intent, sort of like sheep. Thus their bad. Don't blame people who don't want any part of this "patriotic lynch mob" to believe that people who joined didn't know. We just happen to believe our eyes when we see posters like these.

PG, You name one thing Rev. Wright said that was untrue? I happen to be one who heard what he said and understood him. Just as Obama understands him. As you stated, he had to because people associated him and Wright together. I understood Wright. I went to a couple sermons. Don't mean I take him totally at his word. Just like a lot of people don't completely listen to their church. Case in point, the abotion issue. Church is vehemently against yet people do it. Same thing to me.

CM, Isn't it funny how that picture just keeps getting ignored for the face value it is by the so called reich? Stated yet again, 38 days after Obama took office. Hardly long enough to move the furniture in, hardly long enough to get a response from a job application. 38 days. Hardly long enough to complain about Obama. What did he and his tea douche baggers have? The N word, that's it. As stated earlier, the so-called patriotic group was formed because Obama was black, and us liberals know this. That is why they get zero respect. And if anyone joined the group and didn't know their leader felt this way.......then they were suckered. Did they know their guy?

"I think it's funny that most liberals have no problem with the government running their lives, until it comes to reproductive rights." That makes no sense since I don't think I, at least have never made this statement. I have no problem with a collective governmental solution. Abortion is not a collective solution for all. It's a woman thing. No one else gets told what to do with their body except women.

"You like to use the word "douche" don't you?" Call it like I see it. "Like President Obama joining Reverand Wright's church?" I knew about my guy's church. Actually having met Obama and the Pastor. Your point is what?

Yet again, you misinterprete facts. Sure those figures indicate that people are pro-life. But behind those figures are people like me who say they don't approve of abortion. I don't approve of abortion unless it is necessary. You are yet again arguing about the fact that those answers are based on no abortion and if it is a baby or not. No, it is not. The argument is not that. The argument is the choice. I have the choice to have it or not and so does every other female. We have been over this ground,which came to a head with Roe vs. Wade. It's called progress and in order to grow the country must move forward. No one and I mean no one is going to introduce a bill that will turn the clock back for women. No one will and let it pass. No one. Our country is simply too diverse to start interpreting laws based on religion alone. Only reason there are religious aspects in our laws now is because they work for everyone, the vast majority. When they don't work for the vast majority, it will change.

You will be paying taxes as long as you work. You can like it or don't. And those taxes will be going to the poor and those pesky programs, sorry. Oh, I know why don't you just quit and live off the government and see how good that feels to not pay taxes. Why don't we all do it and nobody pay taxes. Then we can go back to no roads and bridges being built, cleaN water and fresh air in the industrialized towns. Yeah, those triffling poor people, just live like fat cats, with all the vacations they take and 4 star insurance, and buying all the diamonds and Ipods. They have it great.

You have beliefs that say its a sin. I don't. I say there is a choice and never the twain shall met. Thus, you are not wrong and neither am I and because I live here right along with you in this country, I get that choice to do or not to do just as you do or not do.

The point is we haven't been fighting the point that it is or is not a sin. Our point has been all along whether or not I or you or the church or legislator or anyone else has the right to choose what I or any female does with their body. Sure, you Catholics call it a sin, so would I if I belonged to the Catholic church. I argue that this is a country of choice and I have that choice right along with anyone else the things I allow or don't allow into my body. You or no one else, not even the govenment or a church has that right. Only I have that choice over my body. I can choose to have sex or not. I can choose to have a baby or not. My choice. That is the argument.

I'm glad I got that one coming as soon as I do something as outlandish as that.

They run into the corner with no where to go, idiocy is left. No logical argument can be had, no clear plan to execute. Just look at the priest tape. "I am not a legislator". His best answer. His only answer. And yet we should follow the path with no clear conclusion ? Words like abortion is murder are just words if they have no follow through.........What does he mean, put people in jail? Idiocy is left.

Tea douche bagger silence is consent.

Can't have it both ways. Either they knew and ignored it or they were led down the rosy path and now they get no respect outside those circles. That is what the douche baggers founder believes and he felt confident enough to carry that sign among them. They find it acceptable otherwise they would have sepreated themselves much more forcefully than they have done and called out their leader and his racist beliefs. Has anyone heard of him being called out by any of the douche bagger crowd? I am sure the liberal leaning media has but have they, the douche baggers? The stand is believable when you call out your own for wrong behavior. As long as I have not heard that horn from the douche baggers, forgive me if I don't believe this is all about the deficit and not his race.

So PG, Clear as day that dude has a racist sign. This is not a matter of some members being assholes. This is the founder, a founder who no doubt, let his views be known to the other founding fathers before all this got started. So don't try to make this shite fly. No doctoring, no Photoshop, just in his pure form and you have the nerve to sit here and rationalize his cause because he pulled people onto his wagon by talking about big government and deficit? Apparently he aint hiding it, so what part of his agenda didn't all these Fake Noise followers understand? He used the douche bag people who thought they could find a legitimate way to protest Obama without calling him a straight out N, because they had nothing other than he was a black man. The people that followed them now scream in loud and disgusted rhetoric "we are not racist, it has nothing to do with his race, it's all about the deficit" "he is spending too much money" Bullshit and you know it. Either your view agrees with the founders racist ones or not. Or, Or,either your stupid and you truely believe it is about the deficit and big spending in which this movement was founded. There is no in between. These idiots joined a group and had no idea their leader was going around with this kind of crap on a board. I call bullshit!!! That would make all douche bags the lamest ass followers in history and losers or you did it because it was an issue of race and these clowns are trying to make people legitimize calling him a N.

Sorry Michele, That is exactly what you will be doing until the day you die or they come up with some other way to fund the country. Rant against it all you want. It's a fact, will always be a fact in our lifetime.

The only way you are supporting the tea douche movement is if you somehow subscribe to the leaders original racist, agenda. Before someone says, "that is not why I joined" Take a look at your leader. That is why he started it. Racism pure and simple. Which is okay by me. But don't pretend you have a problem with spending, and yet somehow don't understand signs like these. I for one would never be caught supporting such an organization. Since people just jumped on the band wagon of the douche, because they mention amoung other things "take our country back", do they really know what the founders real agenda was?

PG, Again, you don't get it. The point of the interview was, if you saw the video, was the priest had no answer beyond the "abotion is a sin". Same as you. NO one wants to label it murder in practice, and NO ONE EVER WILL. You have to have answers beyond that and what we have said and keep saying is no legislator is going to be ruled completely by their views. That train has passed. We came to that precipise with Roe vs. Wade, NEVER TO TURN BACK. Look at countries that let religious rhetoric rule ever aspect of their living. They have mayhem and murder that is wide spread with no relief in sight. You keep saying "if they only legislated by this religious view or that one". Never going to happen. The priest jumped on TV and made himself look like an ass who was bullying from the pulpit for something he knows nothing about and no answers for. He kept saying "I am not a legislator". Being a priest is his job. Being a legislator is the jobs of the Senate and House. They reflect the whole of society not the Catholic part of society. You want them to legislate by Catholic rules and we are not just a Catholic nation thus no legislator can rule by his or her personal opinion just because he believes something else other than what needs to be decided. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. I have never seen so many people bump their head against a collective wall like the religious. The clock will never turn back. I can't have this argument again. I lose a couple IQ points talking about this rule from the pulpit crap. Priest shows the best example of why not. For you to continue on in this vein is either idiocy, a joke you wish to keep going or you are slow. Either way, you are making me feel sorry again for you. Lord only knows what your decifering skills are because you can't seem to understand the difference between facts and the bible, interpretation and the real world and a whole host of things. Yet again another bump of the head against the wall.........

"Recovery spending? What family houshold do you know that chooses to spend some more to get out of the debt their in up to their ears?! Spending does NOT bring recovery, just MORE debt! I understand that the spending has been getting out of hand for many, many years. Bush did his share as well. But Bush isn't in the office now, and noone can turn back the clock. But Obama is and he can do something about it. But did he? No! he just continued to spend far, far, far more when he got in there. And he's not done yet!" It's not a family. It's a business. Just like any business, the government spends money to promote an investment or product, and that government is spending money to get a better return on its investment. Pleeze get an understanding of this concept.

I think Chris Matthews hit the nail on the head. No answer beyond the religious view. Religion and politics (the law) cannot mix. He showed the complete disconnect that the religious grumblers seem to have.

THere will always be people who don't, can't, or won't be able to save money or make enough money. To make a statement that people these days don't work hard enough is just plain stupid, especially when you should know better. I really sometimes hate conversations like this. Just had this dumb ass convo the other day about "lazy" people. There are "some lazy people" who are tied to the system. A small "some". Like that is a situation that is different today than it was a century ago. Always and forever America has had people who have to take menial jobs and then try to move up. Maybe I am wrong but people on here seem to be saying that all one has to do is work hard and they can get ahead and never have to rely on the system. Great for you. Glad you coud do it. Not al people can. FACT. Not everyone can be a doctor. Somebody has to be the doorman, cashier, gas pumper, Mom and Pop store owner, the shoe maker, etc. That argument is stupid. Yeah, I said it.....stupid.

PG, What exactly do you mean when you say we will become socialized? What exactly is wrong with being socialized? What country is comparable and how has that country faired being socialized? Give a straight answer.....I dare you......

"Here's the issue at hand. In surveys of the American public, when the question "Do you believe abortion takes the life of a human being" (or similar wording) is asked, the results are usually between 70% and 80% that it does. Then, in the follow up question "Do you believe women should have the right to choose abortion?" (or similar wording), the results usually come in around 50%. So where's the disconnect? What's going on with the 20-30% of the public who believe abortion takes a human life AND simultaneously believe it should still be legal? How does a society come to the conclusion that the taking of an innocent human life is acceptable?" Problem is most people really don't think of it as a living human or murder. It's a part of their body just like a liver, tumor, and until it moves, the reality is it's just not real. Thus most don't think" I need to murder this." Thinking in terms of murder, that is. That is why when the anti choice people say "you are murdering a child" there is a disconnect.