anonemouse

The thing is, though, it doesn't have to become emotional. For example, Gadgetlady and I have had multiple non-emotional debates over evolution. We debated our beliefs and evidence, etc. Now, lol, other people intruding on those debates tended to become over-emotional and tried to pick fights, but we didn't. I think some people just get too attached to their point of view, even if they aren't the ones engaging in a debate, only observing. To them, any challenge to that belief is automatically a bash. The debate, to me and a lot of other people on both sides of the aisle, is emotionally and intellectually stimulating. It broadens your horizens. I mean, I may not give any creedence to their position at all, but that doesn't mean it isn't stimulating to talk about it and hear their position from their lips (or keyboards, in this case). Now, onlookers may think the debates are emotional, but that doesn't mean that they are. I think a lot of people see those debates, don't bother participating in them, and think stuff is going on that actually isn't. Does that make sense? I mean, they may interpret the debate as an Atheist bashing a Christian because they have sympathizing beliefs, but they don't realize that the Christian is a full and willing participant in the debate. In the case of myself and Gadgetlady, we have a lot of fun in our debates. We both find them interesting, even though many onlookers may think that the debates are very heated and argumentative. Hell, I even sent her a card at Christmas, and I'll likely try to meet her in person when she gets back over to Kentucky/Tennessee. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that what people see happening or their interpretation of what happens isn't always reality.

My responses are in blue.

Ditto. BTW, can Alex do anything about the board not letting you post a reply unless it's a certain length? :wink2:

I have an aunt that has done WW for years. Seriously, I don't remember a time when she wasn't on WW. And she's morbidly obese. She always talks about how "WW is a great tool for living, really teaches you how to live instead of diet." And I always want to say to her, "Well, why aren't you a healthy weight by now, then?" I know it's mean, and maybe it does keep her from gaining tons of weight back (I think she's lost the same 50 pounds several times), but it obviously isn't working that well.

Borns are awesome! They really are the most comfortable shoes I've worn in a long time.

Ditto. What people should understand is that in the vast majority of "religious debates" on the board (not all, but most), it is not the Atheists/non-believer that brought religion into the discussion. In most cases, what happens is this: A believer and a non-believer get into a debate over something. The believer brings their religous beliefs into the debate as support and justification of their position. The non-believer then challenges the logicality of the support/justification. That's how debates work. Now, IMO, if someone doesn't want their beliefs questioned, they shouldn't bring them up in a debate. Because otherwise, they wouldn't be fair game. Like Green said, we don't go around hunting Christians on the board. In fact, we generally actively avoid the Christian threads. But yes, if people decide to enter a debate and use their religious beliefs as their support/justification, those religious beliefs do become valid debating material. That's not bashing, it's debate. And on the idea that a non-believer can't know anything about Christianity, or as much about it as the average Christian.... Well, you don't have to be from Germany to be completely fluent in German and know the history and customs of the country. An Atheist may not understand the spiritual/feeling side of the religion, but they can know the historical/ritual side.

I sometimes wonder about doing that, but then I chicken out. Mainly because I have double vision, and the only reason it doesn't bother me to any extent is because one eye is significantly weaker than the other. In other words, I'm worried that instead of having a clear picture with a fuzzy double, I'll have two clear pictures.

Ditto. I don't mind wearing heeled shoes that have a wide, chunky heel, but I can't wear thin heels at all. I apparently tend to walk on the outer edges of my feet, which obviously would not work well with thin heels. I'd break my ankle, guaranteed. :wink2: Maybe I'll be able to change the way I walk once I get thin, but I doubt it.

Yeah, that's one thing I noticed about Dr. Reath's site, too, that there was only one patient that even looked like she really needed the surgery. Hers turned out really well, though. So far, Reath and Wagstrom are my favorites. I really like the idea of having a female surgeon. What throws me about the Haws/Gingrass pictures is that they don't identify which surgeon did the surgery.

I'm wanting to lose a lot more weight before I go to a consult, so I'm thinking late spring or early summer for that and then surgery in December (to give me enough time to find and get established in either a job or a PhD position). Or sooner, if I get too impatient! :biggrin: This is terribly exciting. It wasn't too long ago that it was just hitting me that the band was actually working. Now it's starting to hit me that it's working so well that I'll probably need plastic surgery. I'm thrilled, though. So far, I really like Dr. Reath's pictures the most, but he comes across as smarmy-looking in his own pictures on the website. I'm really hoping that's not the case, though.

Voondahbah, I'd suggest that you print off these posts as proof of harassment, so that if anything DOES happen at your workplace, you've got something to show to your human resources department. Edited to add: BTW, if those posts get deleted before you can do that, I've taken screenshots that I can email to you if you need them.

Why are you only eating 300 calories a day? That's WAY lower than any other surgeon's requirement that I've seen. :biggrin:

Where in Tennessee are you from? I'm originally from Crossville, but I'm in Kentucky now, working on a grad degree.

Wow. Stalkerish, much?

You aren't kidding. The plus size section absolutely sucks. But I personally hate Lane Bryant, too. When you're fat and short (and I'm barely under average height), clothes shopping is the pits. At Lane Bryant, they apparently think that as women get wider, they also get taller. I can't even wear their petite stuff; it's 4 inches too long. Their shirts don't fit right either; the arms are too long, the neckline's too wide, etc. Seriously, I got the most flack about having the surgery from women that were much heavier than I was and who had already had surgery. They apparently couldn't see that while I wasn't as fat as they were, I was still fat and qualified for insurance coverage.

Back with a review of the tropical flavor: Not horrendous, but not what I'd like to drink every day, honestly. Now, take into account that I'm pretty darn sensitive to the taste of artificial sweeteners. This stuff is SWEET. Way, way too sweet for me. The fruity flavor otherwise isn't terrible. It's not got as strong an "artificial sweetener" flavor to it as it could have, since it's sweetened with aspartame instead of Splenda, but still very much oversweetened. I might be able to drink it if I dilute it, maybe put 1/2 packet in instead of 1 packet per bottle. But then it would only be worth 3 grams of Protein per 32 ounces, so I'm not sure that's worth the price of a box of 7 packets. BUT, if you can't drink regular, unflavored Water and you like drinks like Crystal Lite, you'd probably love this stuff. Personally, I've drunk about 1/4 bottle of it, and I'm about to pour the rest out and get some plain water.

Dude, I think ANYONE willing to take on the office of President (even if it's a write-in) is scary and probably crooked as hell. :biggrin: I think we're down to voting for the least scary, unfortunately.

That's what I can't wait for. One more size, maybe 1/2 size! I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

I caught a LOT of flack before I had surgery, and even while I was in the hospital AFTER surgery (from the nurses). I was told repeatedly when I went to the support group meetings that my original surgeon required that "you're not big enough," "why are you doing this, you're skinny?", etc. And that was from other fat people! I really think people that are very large just don't have an accurate sense of how large other people really are, unless they are larger than them. To those people, I was a "skinny mini." To people that were a normal, healthy weight, I was FAT. But yeah, I got comments and looks from my family, too. My mom wanted me to "just pretend like you had surgery." Literally, that's what she told me. My dad was the king of critical looks and slightly snide comments. I took the higher road, no matter how angry and hurt it made me, and I'm glad I did now. I've proven them wrong. I'm successful and I'm determined to reach my goal weight. Hell, my dad even told me how proud he was of me! THAT blew me away.

Ladies, I waited too long to go shopping in my closet. I realized that my 18WPs were getting way too baggy (I try to wear them as long as possible), and I had four pairs of 16WPs in my closet from my last unsuccessful diet that I hadn't even taken the tags off of. Went to try them on. Some of them are okay, slightly baggier than I prefer, but wearable. A couple of the others are just barely wearable. I mean, we're talking saggy-ass, pull them up to my breasts, BIG. I don't think I can wear them. Awesome, but irritating, since they've NEVER BEEN WORN. I'm really going to have to start up with Ebay, I think. I've got the two pairs of 16WPs (soon to be more, hopefully), a pair of 18WPs that are barely worn, a pair of 20WPs that are barely worn, etc. After these get too big (I LOVE saying that, btw), I'll HAVE to go shopping, since I haven't been smaller than a 16W for years. Hell, I need to go get some Spanx. Maybe I can go down another size!

I don't doubt he'll get some (the more intelligent ones, perhaps), but I think a lot of them won't vote for him when it gets right down to it. There's so many people in this country that consider the Christian religion to be the most important thing in their lives, PERIOD, that I really doubt they'll vote someone into the Presidency when they'd be pretty unlikely to hire them for a job, if they applied. They might give lipservice to voting for him now, but I think that'll go out the window when they go to the ballots on voting day and have to choose between someone that they, deep-down, think is in a non-Christian cult, and someone that they do consider to be Christian. Either way, it's going to be interesting. I don't know whether to hope I'm wrong or hope that I'm right. If I'm wrong, the Democrats will have a lot harder fight. If I'm right, the fight'll be much easier, but it means that a whole bunch of Americans are ignorant asses.

You and I know that it's stupid, but I wouldn't be the least surprised if it happens. Just judging from reactions of many ultra-conservative Christians in my area and that I've talked to online, whenever LDS/Mormonism is introduced in the conversation,they start talking about cults, and "not Christian," and things of that nature. I doubt they'll vote for someone that they think is part of a cult. And heck, we're talking about Americans here. We're not exactly known as the most informed voters.

Bite your tongue! :puke:

Oh, yeah, as a Democrat, I kind of DO want Huckabee as the Republican nominee, even though he DOES scare me. He's scary to Democrats, but a lot of Republicans think he's scary, too. Romney would be harder to beat than Huckabee, but I still think a lot of ultra-conservatives won't vote for him. He'll probably get the moderate and liberal Republicans, but I seriously doubt he'll get much backing from ultra-conservative Christian Republicans. If he's the Republican nominee, I predict a boost for Democrats from the ultra-conservative sector. I doubt they'll consider anyone who they don't think is Christian.

I would not be surprised in the least. Hey, if that happens, I'll be related by marriage to the possible future VP! *shudders in horror* (My SIL's cousin is married to Thompson's son.)