Nanook

I personally don't take Perez Hilton as personally as you seem to do. To me he's just some guy who has a blog spewing out National Enquirer type info. I don't read it myself or watch it unless he's in the news. I take issue with you using terms like fag and flame. Is your hatred of him because he's gay it seems that way when you use hateful speech like "fag and flame"?

I'll just put in my 2 cents for what they're worth. I chose the lap band after I was scheduled for RNY. I was afraid of the final commitment as well as the obvious invasiveness of RNY. So I had the lap band in 8/07, had it removed 10/08 and am now going through pre-op once again for the RNY I should have gotten in the first place. I think the real trick is figuring out which proceedure is the best one for you and I mean with your weightloss. Some people do well with the band and just the mere restriction works wonders and also some don't have complications. Those are some you can control and some you can't! It's really your job to figure this out as I've learned. Picking the lap band because you can always revise to another is not a good reason for picking it. Do you really want to go through two surgeries+? I have no problem with the lap band just it wasn't right for me. So research as much as you can and I've started going to support groups for RNY and it's really helpful too. Good luck Nancy.:thumbsup:

Beth, I think your true colors are showing for the times you're using the terms "fag" and "flame" etc...sounds like a homophobe to me!

Thanks Grandmalisa, I suppose I was just hoping since there was a rather large gang of sleevers here there might be some revisions to RNY too. I already belong to the other forums and that one you mentioned is very helpful. I went there a lot when my daughter had the RNY and had issues too like strictures etc... I hope things are better for your now with your ulcers etc.... How do you know you have an ulcer, just curious not a side effect we've dealt with in our household and hopefully won't. Take care, Nancy.:thumbup:

You did a grear job BJean, thanks, I can't type much today because my daughter's parrot bit through my index finger:eek: I think I'm done on this subject for now...

I wouldn't worry about grasping it you either do or don't. It wasn't meant to be a "joke". I just wanted to mention that I saw Oprah today and she did an interesting show on children being bullied today. They focused on what they called sexual harrassment bullying with children in grade school and middle school. They specifically had three parents on there whose young boys had committed suicide by hanging themselves after being bullied this way for a while. One child was buried just yesterday. Younger children are being bullied and boys called "fag" and girls "whore or lesbian". These kids don't even grasp what it is to be gay etc... at this age but are sexualized at earlier ages due to movies and TV etc... Anyway I bring it up because it was an important show, I think and you could go to Oprah.com and read about it and get other links from it. One thing that they mentioned is that we've told kids in the past and were ourselved told to "just ignore the bully" and this is the wrong approach. Kids need skills in which to deal with bullying and others who are standbyers need to be taught not to go along with the bullying and what the consquences could be. I'm sure some of this bullying could be passed down from parent to child so it does concern me when we use God to make it acceptable to condemn homosexuality what affect this could have, so think about it, Nancy.

I believe she was born that way but identifying it as most of us are raised to be straight in our culture came later.

Thanks Joan I can see so clearly now!

Plain I found this on line written by a Kathy Labriola and after reading this I doubt you'll have any more questions. WHAT IS BISEXUALITY? Many people are 100% gay or lesbian, and are drawn sexually and emotionally only to partners of the same sex. Others are completely heterosexual, bonding in sexual and intimate relationships only with people of another sex. But what about everybody else? A significant percentage of people do not fit neatly into either of these categories, because they experience sexual and emotional attractions and feelings for people of different genders at some point during their lives. For lack of a better term, they are called bisexuals, although many people prefer to call themselves "pansexual," "non-preferential," "sexually Fluid," "ambisexual," or "omni-sexual." The Kinsey scale of zero to six was developed by sex researchers to describe sexual orientation as a continuum. Heterosexual people are at zero on the scale, gay and Lesbian people are at six at the other end of the scale, and everyone in between, from one to five, is bisexual. People who fall at one or two on the scale have primarily heterosexual sexual and affectional relationships and desires, but have some attraction and experiences with same -sex partners as well. People at three on the scale are approximately equally attracted to both men and women. People at four and five on the Kinsey scale choose primarily same-sex partners, but are not completely gay or lesbian and have some heterosexual tendencies and relationships as well. WHO IS BISEXUAL? As you can see, there is no simple definition of bisexuality, and bisexual people are a very diverse group. There are several theories about different models of bisexual behavior. J. R. Little identifies at least 13 types of bisexuality, as defined by sexual desires and experiences. They are: Alternating bisexuals: may have a relationship with a man, and then after that relationship ends, may choose a female partner for a subsequent relationship, and many go back to a male partner next. Circumstantial bisexuals: primarily heterosexual, but will choose same sex partners only in situations where they have no access to other-sex partners, such as when in jail, in the military, or in a gender-segregated school. Concurrent relationship bisexuals: have primary relationship with one gender only but have other casual or secondary relationships with people of another gender at the same time. Conditional bisexuals: either straight or gay/lesbian, but will switch to a relationship with another gender for financial or career gain or for a specific purpose, such as young straight males who become gay prostitutes or lesbians who get married to men in order to gain acceptance from family members or to have children. Emotional bisexuals: have intimate emotional relationships with both men and women, but only have sexual relationships with one gender. Integrated bisexuals: have more than one primary relationship at the same time, one with a man and one with a woman. Exploratory bisexuals: either straight or gay/lesbian, but have sex with another gender just to satisfy curiosity or "see what it's like." Hedonistic bisexuals: primarily straight or gay/lesbian but will sometimes have sex with another gender primarily for fun or purely sexual satisfaction. Recreational bisexuals: primarily heterosexual but engage in gay or lesbian sex only when under the influence of drugs and/or alcohol. Isolated bisexuals: 100% straight or gay/lesbian now but has had at one or more sexual experience with another gender in the past. Latent bisexuals: completely straight or gay lesbian in behavior but have strong desire for sex with another gender, but have never acted on it. Motivational bisexuals: straight women who have sex with other women only because a male partner insists on it to titillate him. Transitional bisexuals: temporarily identify as bisexual while in the process of moving from being straight to being gay or lesbian, or going from being gay or lesbian to being heterosexual. Many of these people might not call themselves bisexual, but because they are attracted to and have relationships with both men and women, they are in fact bisexual. While literally millions of people are bisexual, most keep their sexual orientation secret, so bisexual people as a group are nearly invisible in society. Gay men and lesbian women have long recognized the need to join together, create community, and to organize politically. Long years of hard work have led to significant gains in political and human rights, as well as a visible and thriving gay and lesbian community. Bisexual people have been much slower to come out of the closet, create community, and form political and social networks to gain visibility and political clout. Many bisexual people have spent decades working in gay and lesbian organizations, and in recent years, bisexuals have become more accepted as part of the Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgender community. However, the rigid dichotomy between gay and straight has caused many bisexuals to feel alienated and rejected by gay men and lesbian women, and in recent years many independent bisexual political and social groups have sprung up. Many bisexual people complain that they feel like outsiders in both the straight and gay/lesbian worlds, and that they can't fit in anywhere, feeling isolated and confused. Studies have shown that bisexual people suffer from social isolation even more than gay men or lesbians because they lack any community where they can find acceptance and role models. Many gay men feel that bisexual men are really gay, that they are just in denial about being Gay, and that they should "just get over it." Many straight men are homophobic and hate and fear both bisexual and gay men, often victimizing them with harassment and physical violence. Many straight women reject bisexual men out of misguided fears that they have AIDS, and admonish them to "stop sitting on the fence and make up their minds." Bisexual women are often distrusted by lesbians for "sleeping with the enemy," hanging onto heterosexual privileges through relationships with men, and betraying their allegiance to women and feminism. Straight women often reject bisexual women out of fear they will make sexual overtures and try to "convert" them to being bisexual. Both the straight and gay/lesbian communities seem to have only two possible models of bisexuality, neither of which represents bisexual people accurately. The first is the "transitional model" of bisexuality, believing that all bisexuals are actually gay or lesbian but are just on the way to eventually coming out as gay. The other is the "pathological model", that bisexuals are neurotic or mentally unstable because they are in conflict trying to decide whether they are straight or gay/lesbian, and that they just can't make a decision. Both models see bisexuality as a temporary experience or a "phase" born out of confusion rather than an authentic sexual orientation equally as valid as heterosexuality or homosexuality. Some people see bisexuality as inherently subversive because it blurs the boundaries, confronting both heterosexuals and gay men and lesbian women with sexual ambiguity. As a result, bisexuality challenges concepts of sexuality, traditional relationship and family structures, monogamy, gender, and identity. Bisexuals cannot conform to the ethics of either the gay or straight world or they would not be bisexual. Instead they must re-invent personal ethics and values for themselves, and create responsible lifestyles and relationships that serve their needs even though they don't fit anyone else's rules. Some researchers have note that being bisexual is in some ways similar to being bi-racial. Mixed-race persons generally don't feel comfortable or accepted by people of either ethnic group, feeling that they don't belong or fit in anywhere, as their existence challenges the very concept of race. Like bisexual people, they spend most of their lives moving between two communities that don't really understand or accept them. Like biracial people, bisexual people must struggle to invent their own identities to correspond to their own experience. Forming a bisexual identity helps bisexual people to structure, to make sense of , and to give meaning and definition to their reality.

BJean, That's the way we should be about people and most of us have a hard time. I too admit I struggle with things like Plain mentioned earlier "the nuances". I had issues when my daughter first announced that she considered herself pansexual I had a hard time grasping it. I just wanted her to pick a sex so I could deal with it in my head. Now I've learned that there are so many different types of people out there and as you said their sex life really is none of our business. It's best to just live and let live. Sorry if I rambled too much, lol Nancy.

Patty it seems to me you have many relatives who are gay. Some people don't like to be labeled so it's really not up to us it's up to them and we may not necessarily completely understand where they are coming from. Just like your sister I saw in the news recently that the actress Kelly McGillis has come out of the closet as gay. She is in her 50s and has been married twice, to men, and has had children. She had a lot of trauma in her life and her feeling was that God was punishing her for being gay, that's how she came to terms with it. She has now reconsiled the situation and feels free to come out and be at peace with it. The trauma did not cause her to be gay she was gay since she was old enough to know. Anyway I would suggest, if you have not already done so seeing a film called "Prayers For Bobby". The film stars Signourney Weaver and it is about a very devout Christian woman whose son is gay and commits suicide. You might gain some insight from this but bring your tissues, take care Nancy.

Hope this borrowed from Wiki helps with the defs Pansexuality From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search Sexuality portal LGBT portal Sexual orientation in human sexuality OrientationsAsexual · Bisexual · Heterosexual · Homosexual · PansexualGender-based alternative conceptsNon-westernized concepts of male sexuality · Third sex · Two-spiritResearchBiology · Demographics · Environment · Kinsey scale · Klein Grid · Non-heterosexual · Queer studies · SexologyListList (category) of sexual orientationsLGBT Portal · Sexuality PortalThis box: view • talk • edit Pansexuality, or omnisexuality[1] is a sexual orientation characterized by the potential for aesthetic attraction, romantic love, or sexual desire for people, regardless of their gender identity or biological sex. Some pansexuals suggest that they are gender-blind; that gender and sex are insignificant or irrelevant in determining whether they will be sexually attracted to others.[2] The word pansexual is derived from the Greek prefix pan-, meaning "all". In its simplest form, pansexuality denotes the potential of sexual attraction to all genders and beings. It is intended to negate the idea of two genders (as expressed by bi-) The adjective pansexual may also be applied to organizations or events. In this context, the term usually indicates an openness to the involvement of people of all genders and sexual orientations in said organization/event, as well as the pansexual sexual identity. [edit] Pansexuality compared to bisexuality Bisexuality is a sexual orientation characterized by attraction to both the same gender and the opposite gender, or genders (cf. Homosexuality is attraction to just the same, and Heterosexuality just the opposite - neither of these two mention men or women or how many genders there are).[3] Those pioneering the term pansexuality often attack bisexuality as being "about two genders" and say that it does not specifically include people who supposedly fall outside the gender binary. Pansexuality has been described as a "means to skip the binaries and essentialism of 'bi'."[4] However, many people who identify as bisexual are actually attracted to people who fall outside the gender dichotomy. These people, who could be described as pansexual, have a variety of reasons for identifying as bisexual, including preference for a better definition of bisexuality that doesn't include the number of genders ("attraction to people from more than one gender"), widespread unfamiliarity with the term "pansexual" as well as its negative connotations for some people. Another proposed difference is that while bisexuals are attracted to both genders, or even to people who fall outside traditional gender boundaries, pansexuals don't even take gender into account as far as attraction is concerned. This could leave the attraction to be based on personality, or simply general physical attractiveness. This also applies to many bisexuals too, however.

I understand it's hard to relate to if you are not one yourself. It was difficult for me to understand at first too but I kind of do and the parts I don't understand I just take at face value.

I'm not an expert but from what I've gathered from a real live pansexual and not the robotic type is that they fall in love with the person not the specific sex of the person. Maybe if we didn't have bodies but were spirits you would fall in love that way but there has to be some form of body contact but I don't want to get to graphic. It's still sexual but the sex of the person is not as important as the person. It is different than bisexuality. Did anything I say make sense? lol. I believe there are degrees of everything. Maybe there's a bisexual out there who could explain bisexualtity better than I ever could.

Plain, Pansexuals and bisexuals may freak you out but they are real people. "The Bird is the Word" Peter Griffin

Well said BJean, maybe now this thread will end as it was only started to spread hate and fear, once again!

PG's religion is the Church of PG! If being born a homosexual is a sin then I suppose that means love is a sin.

Don't take her too seriously she does do this quite often on threads you sound like good people to me too take care and ignore!!!!

Well I think we inherently know what it is to be a good human being. We all come from different backgrounds and the more you learn about other cultures, religions, histories and just basically gain knowledge of others the more likely you will find things you have in common and not try to change or judge them. I find beauty in other people's differences and love to learn about them. I think fear drives a lot of people in their lives and keeps them from getting to know other people and understanding them. What a boring world it would be if we were all the same right?

Yes it is Inuit for Polar bear and the nickname I received as a child from my eldest brother! As my real name is Nancy I think he was just trying to be clever or something and it's stuck all these years. I just think some people tend to pick and choose what they want to follow verbatim from the Bible. I truly believe that heterosexuals and homosexuals are born that way. I don't believe God would make someone a homosexual but then expect them not to be able to express their love with another adult human being, of course I have to add that as people tend to compare it with having sex with children and/or animals:cursing:

PG, so if you believe the bible is the word of God and everything is an instruction that if you do not follow you are commiting a sin, do you agree with the following? Leviticus 15 2. (25-30) Unusual or abnormal bodily discharge. 'If a woman has a discharge of blood for many days, other than at the time of her customary impurity, or if it runs beyond her usual time of impurity, all the days of her unclean discharge shall be as the days of her customary impurity. She shall be unclean. Every bed on which she lies all the days of her discharge shall be to her as the bed of her impurity; and whatever she sits on shall be unclean, as the uncleanness of her impurity. Whoever touches those things shall be unclean; he shall wash his clothes and bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. But if she is cleansed of her discharge, then she shall count for herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean. And on the eighth day she shall take for herself two turtledoves or two young pigeons, and bring them to the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of meeting. Then the priest shall offer the one as a sin offering and the other as a burnt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for her before the Lord for the discharge of her uncleanness.' Does this mean we all need to keep pigeons or turtledoves on hand?

I think there's a big difference between a young girl trying to get the attention of men by making out with another girl in front of them and the act of coming out as a gay person and I'm not sure where it the two have anything to do with each other.

Maybe there are kids that play around with it but for the people that I know who are gay are not like that. There are people that don't want to be labeled as one thing or another either so it can get a bit confusing. I'm not an expert and I understand what you are saying what that therapist told you I just know that my attraction towards the opposite sex is just as real and as strong as someone who feels that way towards the same sex or both sexes or neither sex. I suppose everyone experiments with sex in their own way though. I'm no Dr. Ruth!

I believe people do not pretend to be gay or do it for funsies! Why would they? I am straight and there is no way I would be attracted to another woman it's not part of my being. I know of many men and women who are homosexual, bisexual even pansexual and it took a while for them to come out of the closet for many reasons. It's not that they just woke up one day and said "hey I think I'll be gay today because it's so much fun! In our world it takes a lot of courage to come out because of the hatred and discrimination they face. To use the bible for instruction on how one should view homosexuality seems silly to me as there are so many wacky things that people are instructed to do. If we followed everything the bible said if we were on our period we shouldn't attend church and should live that week in a menstral hut! I think in some areas of the country (world) being homosexual is not as frowned upon as it is possibly in the "bible belt". So in an area that is more open and understanding of homosexuality younger people can come out to others earlier and feel good about themselves. They also have found support in groups at the schools whether they are social or support groups. Being that it's "prom season" many of these kids have to fight with their school just to bring their same sex partner as their prom date. Some schools don't allow it while more open minded schools do and then there are some schools who have separate proms. Anyway just putting in my two cents:smile:

BJean, exactly what I thought when I heard her answer too, pretty sad!