JACKIEO85

Refilling by removing all the Fluid and then replacing it actually causes more swelling than just a normal fill imo. I have had both because of a leak, and removing all the Fluid is much harder on me. I would not prefer to do that if I can help it.
I feel for you, OP. I think it's horrendous that your slip was not picked up as soon as you experienced some symptoms. I felt a quick loss of restriction in Jan 2012, and my surgeon immediately began investigation, though it did take many many months to resolve. I'm horrified to hear that your complication was not picked up until it had done so much damage. I worry sometimes that the band requires SUCH a high level of aftercare that if patient and doctor are not in sync, bad things happen. And that you would have to pay so much to have it removed when it was damaging you, astounds and saddens me. I'm in Australia, where we have universal healthcare. That wouldn't have happened here.
I have been lucky in that aside from the leak and the issues associated with that (repeated operations to resolve) the band has worked incredibly well for me. I'm sorry your band has caused you so much pain and suffering. And I don't blame you for wishing you'd never had it done, given your particular circumstances.

Thank you to those of you who responded out of concern. That means a lot to me. This has been very scary and physically and financially painful for me and my family. I never encountered any "research" (holding a Master of Science degree, I think the term tends to be used rather loosely) on the band that indicated that it could slip downward or that there was a risk to other organs. I was surprised to find the FDA's report on the incidence of complications. I thought that if there was a slip, it would only impact my stomach. I didn't fail at weight loss. I didn't have problems getting stuck or vomiting... I lost a significant amount of weight before I became symptomatic. I believe that the slip was caused by an aggressive fill. A nurse accidentally put in two ccs, and at that point I became symptomatic (I only found out that she'd overfilled me in the emergency room the following day when they extracted all of the liquid from the band and there were 7ccs instead of 6). The bariatric surgeon who did my aftercare suggested that the overfill caused the slip and that it might have resulted in the stitches separating, but I can't be sure.
Sure anything can happen. You can get hit by a car crossing the road.... but this did happen. This is my story, and I will continue to post right here where people can see what can happen. Perhaps its anecdotal, but it's my anecdote, and to try to cover it up or minimize it is not only hurtful, it serves to mislead others who come here hoping to learn about what can and does go wrong sometimes. People need this information before they make the decision to move forward.

I saw this report what scares me is the highlighted area stating the 12% reoperation rate for gastric banding Doesn't seem like good stats. But only time will tell...............

Maestrita I applaud you for posting your concerns and wish you well in your future without the BAND. It never ceases to amaze me that in these " Open Forums" People Feel the need to dispute what is written. If they bother to READ the Research your going to find good and bad. Maybe it's that inevitably , it "MIGHT HAPPEN" scares them? But to argue that one person's experience isn't true is just SAD. Anyone with a Google search can find out that LB has a higher than 1% complications rate and Erosion isn't due to non-noncompliance.
Lady VSG last I read a slip can be caused by vomiting.
Again best of luck

Maestrita I applaud you for posting your concerns and wish you well in your future without the BAND. It never ceases to amaze me that in these " Open Forums" People Feel the need to dispute what is written. If they bother to READ the Research your going to find good and bad. Maybe it's that inevitably , it "MIGHT HAPPEN" scares them? But to argue that one person's experience isn't true is just SAD. Anyone with a Google search can find out that LB has a higher than 1% complications rate and Erosion isn't due to non-noncompliance.
Lady VSG last I read a slip can be caused by vomiting.
Again best of luck

I have no problem with failed bandster's telling their story but I do have a problem with the exaggerated tales of studies they usually pull out. It's only natural for someone who failed with the band or visa versa to seek out reasons why they failed. Unfortunately they cling to the worst study they can find and run with it. Alex recently posted a much newer study with many many patients and I'd like to post it here again.
Sorry Maestrita that you had complications, but it's not nearly as bad you make it out to be. Maybe it was 16 years ago as your study indicates, but much has been learned since the 90s.
DO THE MATH

164 Studies,
161,756 Patients
Over Nearly 10 Years:
What Does This Add Up To?
BARIATRIC AND METABOLIC SURGERY IS EVEN MORE EFFECTIVE THAN PREVIOUSLY REPORTED AND GETTING SAFER!
A new meta-analysis of studies carried out between 2003 and 2012 shows higher remission rates of diabetes and high blood pressure and a lower mortality rate than previously reported. The study, published online in JAMA Surgery, is an update to a meta-analysis of studies conducted between 1990 and 2003 and published in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA, Buchwald et. al.) back in October 2004.

Researchers from Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis reviewed outcomes from nearly 162,000 patients in 164 studies (37 randomized clinical trials and 127 observational studies), over almost 10 years.

They discovered 92 percent of patients in randomized clinical trials experienced diabetes remission after surgery, slightly higher than the 86 percent remission rate found in observational studies, but significantly higher than the 76.8 percent remission rate found in the 2004 JAMA study.

Remission rates for hypertension were about 75 percent in both the randomized clinical trials and observational studies, while the remission rate in 2004 was 61.7 percent. Body Mass Index (BMI) loss five years after surgery ranged from 12 to 17 in the new study. Before surgery, patients had an average BMI of 45.62.

"With the 2004 study, we now have 22 years worth of data from over 180,000 patients and 300 studies," said study co-author J. Esteban Varela, MD, MPH, MBA, Fellow of the ASMBS. "The data continues to prove bariatric surgery is not only safe and effective in providing significant and sustainable weight loss, but is the most effective treatment today for diabetes, hypertension and an array of other diseases and conditions in people with obesity."

In the new study, 30-day mortality rate was 0.08 percent, down from the 0.3 percent reported in 2004. Complication rates ranged from 10 to 17 percent and the reoperation rate was about 7 percent. Complication and reoperation rates were not reported in the previous meta-analysis.

By procedure, gastric bypass and sleeve gastrectomy resulted in the greatest weight loss, but had a higher rate of complications and mortality than adjustable gastric banding. Gastric banding had the highest reoperation rate (12% in randomized trials), while gastric bypass had the lowest at 3 percent, followed by sleeve gastrectomy, which had a reoperation rate of 9 percent. The new meta-analysis included sleeve gastrectomy, which was not available in the 1990s. Of note, sleeve gastrectomy had comparable weight loss to that of gastric bypass at 5 years.

"This is but the latest study to validate the high degree of safety and effectiveness of bariatric surgery," said Ninh T. Nguyen, MD, FACS, President of the American Society for Metabolic and Bariatric Surgery (ASMBS) and Vice-Chair of the Department of Surgery at UC Irvine School of Medicine. "Today we are performing operations that are as safe or safer than gallbladder and hernia repair surgery."

According to the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), more than 78 million adults were obese in 2011–2012.1 The ASMBS estimates about 24 million people have severe or morbid obesity. Individuals with a BMI greater than 30 have a 50 to 100 percent increased risk of premature death compared to healthy weight individuals as well as an increased risk of developing more than 40 obesity-related diseases and conditions including type 2 diabetes, heart disease and cancer.2,3

Thank you for your concern, Rinny. I did have it removed. I came here to share my experience with the best of intentions. I would hate to see anyone go through what I did, and I think it's fair to share that this is something that happens. Often.
Cheryl, I'm not going to respond to you again because I didn't come here to do battle. I think your comments are meant to minimize what happened to me, and I find that extremely cruel given what I've been through. I sincerely wish you the best of luck and health, and I hope that nothing bad happens to your band.
B-52, I did follow the rules. I'm not a binge eater. My BMI barely qualified me for surgery, but because I have spinal arthritis, I did go ahead and have it done.
I knew that some would not like to hear my story, but I won't be silenced on this matter. People need to know what a "complication" looks like. That real people have them. That they are expensive and dangerous. Mostly, I want people to know that the band can slip down below your stomach (my surgeon once removed a band from the intestines). If you start to experience pain just below the xyphoid process and terrible gas and nausea, do not ignore it (I'm sure glad I did not because, as I said, my liver was inflamed). If there are still signs of liver inflammation again in a few months, I will post again to share that, as well.

I beg your pardon. I meant to say band. This has been a little bit emotional for me, and I have not been communicating well. Not even Allergan reports <1%... http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm283455.htm

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21/obesity-lap-bands-may-cause-more-complications-than-weight-loss.html
and
http://www.dayonehealth.com/resources/blog/231-long-term-complications-after-lap-band-surgery.html
and
http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/14/fda-warns-about-misleading-lap-band-surgery-ads-in-california/
I'm not here to argue. I just think that people should be advised. This last study says 60% need additional surgery. That's not what I was told, and I had relied on that information to make a medical decision.

I just wanted to update people on my status. I had a band placed in 2009, and it had slipped a few years back. I went to a consulting surgeon, and he suggested that he didn't think it had slipped. It turns out it had. It had slipped below my stomach and was causing my liver to become inflamed and creating medically significant amounts of scar tissue (2 hours to remove the tissue to get the band to remove it). At the same time that I became symptomatic here in October of 2013, I came back to this site for support and ideas about how it could be remedied. I learned that having it removed where I live would cost 12,000. (I paid under 10,000 to have it put in). If I were willing to be treated poorly, I could use the clinic that took over when my original surgeon retired. I could have it removed for 4,500.00 there. I also learned that the FDA recently reported that the number of complications is not what Allergan has reported. The FDA suggests that, based on their research, close to 50% of Lap Bands result in complications. I just wish I'd had that information before I began. 50%. I never would have signed up for surgery that was about as successful as flipping a coin. I'm telling you in case you're about to do this. I sincerely wish I had not. Before it was through, I wasted 16,000.00 (not including the revision to a new WLS). I know some of you have good experiences with the band, and I hope that you continue to do so. I'm not interested in challenging your experience, and I'm only interested in sharing what happened to me in case there are folks who have been mislead to think that this is safer than it is. I hope you find this information helpful. Amy

Hi
I'm completely sympathetic about your situation and more than a little angry with the responses you've gotten from your doctor. With just the info you provided, I would move in the direction of having the band removed.
I have considerably low tolerance for doctors who say certain symptoms one brings to their attention have nothing at all to do with the band. In your case, you didn't have these symptoms before being banded, so how can the doctor say that so unequivocally? GRRR. (my surgeon did the same thing...so that's where my anger comes from)
You've seen specialists to rule out other things, but I don't hear anything that rules out the band as the cause.
The doctor also says he will not take out a properly functioning lap band. What tests has he done to ensure the band is properly functioning? Reading what you wrote, it sounds to me like it is not functioning properly for your particular body. I can't imagine he really thinks someone losing 30 pounds in 3 years has a band that is functioning correctly.
The band can be such a life saver for many people, but it can also not be the right solution for some of us.
I'm glad you are taking a probiotic.
My new surgeon suggested taking Metagenics Acute Care. There is a particular ingredient in it that really impacts some people (in a positive way). I think the ingredient is spelled S. Boulardii.
I would suggest you try that particular probiotic. It worked absolute wonders for me. If you don't see a huge difference in a week, then it's not the miracle it was for me. My surgeon says you'll know real soon; some people feel the difference immediately.
I, too, saw several specialists when my lap band surgeon said my symptoms had nothing to do with the band. In the end (after 2 years of specialists and misery), I saw a different surgeon who was open-minded about complications. He saw immediately what the problem was and said the band needed to be removed. After 3 years of being banded, the band came out and the symptoms are gone.
So, hang in there. Get your medical records together (test results, etc) and see if you can consult with a different surgeon about your concerns. Try the Metagenics Acute Care probiotic. You might want to add a Prebiotic as well.
You've lost 30 pounds in 3 years, which is low. So the lap band is NOT functioning as a weight loss tool.
It seems worth it to me to take it out and see what happens. You won't have a lap band, but you don't really have one now, either.
Im really sorry to hear what you've been through. I don't think this is something to wait on; get an appointment as soon as you can arrange one.
I'll be interested in hearing the outcome!
~hiddn

Hi All...
I thought I'd do a short update on my successful band removal yesterday. Everything went well and I was able to come home late in the afternoon. I'm feeling so much better now that the band is gone. Here is something to keep an eye on. The surgeon who removed it found that it had been causing scar tissue to build up on my liver. This would not have been caught had I not made the wise decision to have it removed. Apparently, the band had been rubbing against my liver, thus causing the scar tissue. I have no idea how much damage was done but will certainly be following up on this with my doctor. So...after 1.5 years of PBing and vomiting, I now have liver damage. Boy, I am so glad to be free of this thing. If I could share one bit of advice, it would be to encourage those of you, whether successful or unsuccessful with the band, to please have yourself checked out for possible complications that you may not even be aware of, which could be doing significant physical damage. As in my previous reply, I plan to remain on my organic, whole foods regime, continue to increase my exercise at a reasonable rate, and enjoy the steady weight loss I am experiencing without the nasty side effects of the band. I wish you all health and success. God bless.

This reply will probably not be very popular, even on this thread. I was banded about 1.5 years ago. I lost about 15 pounds before the surgery and another 30+ shortly thereafter...much due to limited eating (protein shakes and soft foods) as well as a great deal of exercise. During this time, I was regularly PB'ing as well as just plain vomiting. Numerous attempts were made to find the ostensible "sweet spot" but either there was no restriction or I was vomiting. When I first mentioned to my surgeon some months ago that perhaps the band was not for me, he said that he had never had to remove one...thus cowed, I agreed to give it another shot. After yet another adjustment and several more months of vomiting due to as little as a sip of liquid or a small, well-chewed bite of egg, I flat out told him I wanted it removed. I never knew when the vomiting would happen....sometimes in my waste basket at work, other times I managed to make it to the nearest sink or toilet,several times in a napkin at a restaurant...definitely no way to live. By the way, I should tell you that during all this intermittent vomiting, I also managed to re-gain all the weight I had lost except for my pre-band loss, as when I wasn't vomiting, I had no restriction. About a month ago, I quit all the low/no fat junk as well as processed foods and went to "real foods", ie, organic raw milk (yes, real, creamy full-fledged milk), meat, butter, eggs, cheese, vegetables. I am now easily sated and have lost 11 pounds. In addition, I feel terrific...my blood pressure is down considerably (108/70) and my energy level has exponentially increased. The only problem that remains is the intermittent vomiting due to the band, which will, thankfully be removed in early November. My regular physician said that the surgery to remove it is less risky than having this piece of plastic in my gut which could, at any time erode. What was I thinking? We fat folk are so desperate to try anything that we will, in fact, try anything. For me, I'll be grateful to be done with it and simply go on eating real food which, unlike the no/low fat nutrition-void, chemical filled junk we pump into our systems, actually satisfies and assists in weight loss. Check out your local organic farms...buy local, know your food source...try sites like the Weston A. Price Foundation and learn to love real food again. You may want to read a book called "An Unburdened Life" which can be ordered from this site. I wish you all the best.

I, of course, have to wonder how many of the people in the "failed" catagory have endrcrine problems, such as Cushing's....
It doesn't matter how much I eat, or don't eat for that matter. Calories have nothing to do with those of us with Cushing's, they seem to be irrelevent. The Band will never help us unless and until we get our endocine issues resolved.
I would so love it if an endocrine screaning was part of the pre-band work-up. I think it would save not only heart ache over not being able to lose weight with the band, but save lives too.
Strength and Courage

The technique you're referring to, pars flaccida, was in common use in 2001. So... at least a good portion of the patients in the first study would have had that technique used on them.
The second study specifically states that all of the patients had the pars flaccidea technique.
Remember guys, even though the Band was approved in the US in June 2001, it was in use in Europe and Australia for 7 or 8 years before then. (Yes, both the Lap-Band and the Swedish Bands... both were adjusted via ports using saline or contrast solution.)
As for post-op plans in 2003... I can tell you that post-op instructions were the same in 2001 as they are now. We knew to avoid aggressive fills due to slippage. We knew how to manage PBs, etc. Post-op diet instructions were the same. Nothing has changed in that regard.

I don't regret self-paying for my Band. It was $10,000... and I've spent maybe $4000 so far in fill costs. That sounds a lot, I know... but realistically, I've spent just as much on spas, diet doctors, infomerical wonder diets, exercise equipment, and personal trainers... and never achieved the success I did with my Band, even with all of its faults. Yeah, my Band crapped out on me after my first pregnancy (18 or so months after Banding)... but I had never lost 95 pounds before. It's been four years and three pregnancies since the mega unfill (I'm not counting fills since that I haven't been able to keep for more than a day)... and I'm keeping off 50 of the 95 pounds. Prior to the Band, the most I lost was 20 or so pounds by living at a vegan health spa for a month. Needless to say, I regained it all plus some within two weeks of entering the real world. :eek:
I definitely think people discount/tune out info they don't want to hear.
I also think that what risks one is willing to take... be they operative risks, long-term risks, or even financial risks... change over time. I'm glad that the Band was my first WLS experience. It is the easiest surgery to revise. Everythign is still in tact. Had I gone with a VBG (although most surgeons had stopped doing them at the time) or even an RNY... and was facing a revision, there would be a lot more risk and expense involved.

I'd get flamed beyond belief if I posted that in the general forums. :eek: But having said that, you may have completely different results...and I hope you do. I think that the Band works as promised for maybe 1/3 of patients. It works OK, but maybe not great for another 1/3. (These people lose some weight, but may still be MO or obese... or they lose weight but have to live with an amazingly bad quality of life in terms of food intolerances, reflux, etc. And for the final 1/3, it sucks. But that's just my opinion.
I'm in the middle category, BTW.

OK, as somebody who has been banded 6+ years, I have to say that at least 60% of the people I know who were Banded around the time I was Banded or soon after no longer have their Bands. I know that if I post something like this in the General forums... I get a lot of hands over eyes and mouth saying "no no no ... that can't be true..." because most newly Banded people do not want to hear this. I can't find any concrete statistics from Inamed/Allergan.. nor do I think they keep them (or want to keep them)... but I did find this study:
A 10-year experience with laparoscopic gastric ban...[Obes Surg. 2006] - PubMed Result
I guess I'm feeling bad because I one person I tried to convince to try the Band has just had to have her Band completely unfilled due to severe reflux... and she is barely one year out. She's loss maybe 40% of what she needed to, but is now, regaining. I think that so many of us try to paint the Band as positive that we don't talk about the negative... and that we don't accept/realize that this surgery really isn't successful for a lot of people... this study shows a nearly 43% failure rate at 5 years.
Laparoscopic adjustable gastric banding versus Rou...[surg Obes Relat Dis. 2007 Mar-Apr] - PubMed Result
This study shows a failure rate of 35% at 5 years for the Band.
I wonder what the real figures are. I'd love to know.

I had a fluoro done a week or so ago and have a slip. THis is due to my own over-eating and getting stuck. My doc says "you tried it, now we need to move forward with a better method" - he submitting to insurance for sleeve conversion. The insurance rep at his office seems to think it will take less than the 6month supervised dieting, etc. b/c I have complications. I'm excited to get the sleeve. I'm ready for permanent weight loss without fills and getting stuck. Keep us posted on your developments and best of luck to you. I'm completely unfilled due to slip and can't imagine waiting 6 months for the sleeve. I'll weigh more than when I started in 08.

This is a decision that should be based on research, not how much you like or don't like your doctor. And not, IMHO, on anecdotal evidence ("it worked for me" or "it didn't work for me").
Here's a 2011 Consumer Reports article that says 25% of lap-bands (at that time) were removed.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/think-twice-about-lap-band-surgery-for-weight-loss/index.htm
Excerpted from that article:
The firm’s own website reports a study that followed 299 people for three years after the surgery. Twenty-five percent of them had a second operation to remove the band.
That’s a lot of dissatisfied customers. Imagine if 25 percent of people who owned Toyotas were so dissatisfied that they called up their dealers and asked them to come and take their cars out of their driveways.
That’s not all. Nine percent needed a second operation to fix problems with the band. Nine percent needed an additional procedure to fix a leaking or twisted access port, a design issue that the manufacturer says has been improved. Four people had the band erode into their stomachs.
Less serious side effects are also common. Half the people who had the procedure reported nausea and vomiting. Thirty-four percent suffered from gastroesophageal reflux, 24 percent of people experienced band slippage (which might stem from excessive vomiting), and 14 percent developed stomach blockages.

So glad you are finding success with your band!
FYI, stomachs don't absorb calories, intestines do, stomachs break down food, and add acid, and some other chemicals to it (including the hunger hormone) to prep it for absorption in the intestines. The WLS's that shorten the intestinal transit by bypass are the ones that prevent some of the absorption of nutrition (RNY,DS- Not the Sleeve). that is all, carry on.

I haven't noticed any lap band haters on the sleeve forum.

I had my band to sleeve revision at the same time. Thats how my dr does all of his revisions. In fact, the day before surgery I asked him what my chances were of waking up without a sleeve. He said "nil". If there's some damage, they take out 85% of ur stomach anyway. If ur stomach is damaged more than 85%, u wouldn't be doing a revision anyway.
If u have any ?'s, feel free to pm me!
Good luck!

You haven't read these studies. I'm not sure you understand how to interpret results of intervention and outcomes. Quite simply: given regression to the mean, overwhelmingly the majority of folks who are banded are not successful.
The only thing I'm stipulating is that the goal of the band is to be a tool in a patient reaching weight loss goals. It is not assisting more than 20% or so of people in doing that. If you read any of these studies you'll see that for many (40-50% average) have to have the band removed due to complications.
It's pretty remarkable you all would attack someone on these boards who is struggling. Good health and good luck to everyone. God knows we all need positive support in our lives. And I mean EVERYONE. Good tidings.

The study is complete, did you read either of these studies? You are talking about sampling bias not completion. I'm glad it worked for you - but people should have full information before committing themselves to something.
The study you cite states that 1:20 had to have the band removed. They didn't include these people in their statistics...that is what we call sampling bias. According to the original report only 22% people (714/3227) succeeded long-term (success being 50% of EWL).
DeMaria, E. J., Sugerman, H. J., Meador, J. G., Doty, J. M., Kellum, J. M., Wolfe, L., ... & Turner, M. A. (2001). High failure rate after laparoscopic adjustable silicone gastric banding for treatment of morbid obesity. Annals of surgery, 233(6), 809.
V Giusti MD, P. D. (2006). A 10-year experience with laparoscopic gastric banding for morbid obesity: high long-term complication and failure rates.Obesity surgery, 16(7), 829-835.
Goitein, D., Feigin, A., Segal-Lieberman, G., Goitein, O., Papa, M. Z., & Zippel, D. (2011). Laparoscopic sleeve gastrectomy as a revisional option after gastric band failure. Surgical endoscopy, 25(8), 2626-2630.