Susanne

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound condescending, I have just heard many people say that it is such a bother to use a scale and I think it's no different either way. Actually, you don't need to get your measuring cups dirty, so you are actually saving a clean-up. Your stomach doesn't have a fixed size like that. If they say 4 oz, it is just a VERY rough approximation of the amount you should/can eat. Yes, theoretically for your stomach the proper unit would be volume since the surgery restricted the volume of our stomach and not the max. weight capacity but for most things it is impossible to find out the proper volume. Take bread for example. If you cut of a chunk 4 oz. in volume, after chewing and adding saliva, it is probably less than 2 oz. Same for other things, if you want 4 oz. of strawberries in volume, what do you measure? Whole berries? Halved berries? Quarters? Or mashed up? 1 cup of whole berries probably gives you 1/4 cup after blending them even though you haven't removed a single berry. On the other hand, if your doctor says you can eat about 4 oz. of salmon, chicken or steak he is not talking about volume but weight. I personally have a fairly inexpensive digital scale from Aldi. There are a few things I would consider important: 1) Smooth surface that can be cleaned real easy. Since I throw just about everything on there, it is good to know that I can wipe it off easily. Mine is not glass, but that is what I would be looking for for my next purchase. I recommend just a flat surface, no bowls etc. because that's just extra cleanup or obstacles. 2) Easy tare function (this is often also called the "zero" function). Probably should be function number 1 :-) This is how it works for me. The scale is always on the counter top, so now I want to make yogurt with fruit. Pull the scale out, turn it on, place my bowl on it and press Tare. Now the scale says it's 0. Add my desired amount of yogurt. Press Tare again. Add my desired amount of fruit. Press Tare again. Add my desired amount of Cereal, granola, Fiber, Protein or whatever I want to add. This way I don't have to do math, but can just add the individual amounts without thinking. You can laugh, but I do the same when I make a sandwich. Weigh bread, tare. Weigh mayo, tare. Weigh cheese, tare. Weigh ham -- I am probably overly anal with this, but I have noticed so many times how much I was off when eye balling stuff and also how much I was off when using volume like spoons and cups just because the label seems to be off. 3) Digital display should be easy to see when stuff is on the scale. Mine isn't that good with this, and sometimes if I place a bigger bowl onto the scale, I have to peek underneath to see the display. I think the Oxo scale actually has a display that you can pull out.

IMHO, this is exactly what you should NOT do. The 4 oz container is holding 4 fluid ounces - a unit of volume. The salmon is 4 solid ounces - a unit of weight. It's not the same. Use a scale. If you are really interested in accurate measures of food, t really isn't that hard to use a scale.

You probably don't have to take as many vitamins as I do. I would have to take a double dose of everything (and 4x of the Ds) :-(

Just a caveat, those gummies have too many calories for my liking. If you take all those in the recommended nutritional amount for WLS you'll probably add over 100 calories to your diet. As far as I remember, they are between 15 and 25 calories per serving and I believe they are fairly low in Vitamin values, so you need at least two servings each. I am taking in a total of 900 calories on most days, I really don't want to waste 100+ on vitamin supplements. My liquid multi and calcium add up to 45 calories and from what I remember (I compared them side by side at CostCo) they were more complete. The adult multi gummies have only 50% of most vitamin per serving, is that right? Just sayin' - if you use them as your candy allowance for the day, that's great. But make sure to remember it's about 100 calories for those.There is a reason why they taste like candy...they are candy!

I do that too and I think it is great if you like your Protein because it is an easy way to get an extra 8 oz. of Water in!

Yeah, I saw that controversial too, but like I said, he has been weighed and probed and had probably every part of his body measured - arms, legs, chest and I am sure they did the height too. He has been standing in nothing but Speedos and bare feet in a line of other dudes in Speedos. I think if he was lying, it would have been very easy to conclusively call him out and prove him wrong, just by knowing the height of everyone right and left of him. The fact that there is not more bruhaha of calling him a liar, I am pretty sure it's right. I could also see that the constant abuse of his body probably does a number on his spine, so I don't doubt that he is probably not 6'2" anymore - after all, he is 63 years old, so he is probably shrinking. On the other hand, if he was smaller, it would even more prove my point because his BMI would be even higher :-)

What do you base that on? I got those values from Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Schwarzenegger I would assume since he competed professionally with his physique, his height and weight should not be a secret. Here is some more: http://www.celebheights.com/s/Arnold-Schwarzenegger-177.html

How much did you adjust it by? You are now 9 pounds away, how much was it before? BMI is very bad for athletic people. Let's take the extreme, Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is about 6'2" tall and weighs 250 pounds - guess what, at his prime Arnold Schwarzenegger was OBESE with a BMI of 32.1 \ö/ This may not be the body type you are aiming for, but it shows that more athletic people who have built up muscle mass are off much worse than slim people without muscles. On a different note, say you adjusted your goal by 10 pounds or so. What relevance did 10 pounds have for you before surgery. Did losing 10 pounds really make a dent? For me, starting at 260 pounds, it didn't make much of a difference. Yeah, I'd hated to gain 10 pounds and would have been happy to lose 10 -- but overall, I don't think anyone would have been able to really see either much. And last but not least, I think once you have made peace with the new weight goal, your mind set may actually power through it. I remember in school, I always waited until the last minute and tried to furiously cram knowledge into my head, I was able to remember it for the exam but forgot all about it soon after. Most things I remember well are the things I just learned by doing, when I didn't have the pressure behind it, when I didn't feel so cornered know it's do or die. So for now, just relax. I would even go further - set your goal weight to what you are at now. Consider your travel done. Now you are there. If this was vacation, then this would be where you enjoy yourself, enjoy the place you are at, try new things -- play around with the new you. Join the roller derby team, find a running group, start playing soccer -- test your new you and be amazed at what you can do with yourself.

I hate them too - chewables and "swallowables" alike :-) I am using a liquid Vitamin, http://revivanutrition.com/product.html I don't mind that flavor, it's just like concentrated fruit juice and it is a little thicker so it's good to wash down some other pills. Usually, the thicker the liquid, the easier the pills go down. This is a shot glass in the morning and that's it! I am getting mine at costco

Somehow, that I don't understand. Your test came back with 980 calories for the BMR. That means, if you lay in bed 24/7, you'll burn 980 calories just to stay alive and keep your organs working. Now, if you say you are fairly active, that should amount to another range of calories - even if you are a slow burner, that should give you another 200 to 300 calories at least (VERY low estimate for "fairly" active). Why do you have to stay at 850-980 calories afterwards to maintain which is below or at BMR???

Rootman, of course there are extremes. I am sure Ghandi would have gained at 500 calories, I don't think anyone was talking about this. Also, no one was asking about where the calories are from. Sugary stuff doesn't have more calories, that is like saying lead is heavier than feathers. If you want to get technical, sugary stuff has the same amount of calories as Protein stuff and less than fat stuff on a per gram base: Fats: 1 gram = 9 calories Proteins: 1 gram = 4 calories Carbs: 1 gram = 4 calories How satisfying these items are or what they do for your health was not really the question. Fact is, that a lot of places say 1000 - 1200 calories and even if I eat 1000 calories all protein and healthy grains, it should not be considered enough for weight maintenance for a healthy person post VSG. This is honestly not what I got surgery for - even if my small stomach enables me to live on 900 to 1000 calories, I do not think it should be the goal for the majority of people on maintenance post VSG. I have heard it too, 1000 is considered a maintenance caloric intake and I found it too little. I think Crosswind has it right, that most of us have messed up their metabolisms over years and years of yoyo'ing and fad dieting. I also think that for people "like us" they often say a lower value like 1000 calories and will be happy if we stay within 1200 calories. Just like you try to put a child to bed at 7pm because you know it will drag out for about an hour and then they are in bed at 8pm. If you would plan for 8pm, they would be in bed at 9pm which would be too late. I also think the majority - me included - is not tracking EVERYTHING. I am tracking pretty much daily and just about everything, but I believe that I am leaving off a coffee creamer here, a bite of my husbands croissant there, licking off a spoon when cooking etc. which probably averages around 100 - 150 calories a day that I don't log.

Yeah, a lot of people wonder about that. There is a long topic about people discussing this here: http://www.verticalsleevetalk.com/topic/12289-how-is-1200-calories-enough/ I believe I will be able to maintain at a higher level, but I am also trying to get a lot more active. From what I read here, a lot of people are taking in very low calories in the losing phase - very low for me is 700 calories or so. I was told by my nutritionist to stay around 900 during losing. I believe staying at a slightly higher calorie rate during losing helps keep the metabolism active. I do lose slower than a lot of other people here, but I lose and that's what matters and I hope in the long run it helps me maintain at 1400 or 1500 calories. Now, that's just what I think and I am not a doc or nut. I don't believe you'd go into full starvation if you take in less than that but it does make sense to me that the body gets accustomed to a lower calorie amount and gains when you go higher than. I am sure you can coax your body to burn more even if you stayed around 700 calories during the losing years, but for me this is perfect. I am living life. I am eating what I want in small amounts. I am staying around 900 calories, more if I worked out hard.

I had signed up for a 5k practice group from a local running store, if you like I can post their training plan.

Just an update - this is going absolutely amazing! I have been at every Monday/Wednesday training and we have worked our way up to [running 8/walking 2] x 4. We started at [3/2] x 3 and increased the speed week over week. I have found a few running buddies and we met Saturday morning and did a 5k running 6/walking 2 and it took us 36 minutes. It was so awesome, that we actually met Sunday morning and did it again! That's 2 5k! And guess what we hadn't considered? That's right, we had practice today so we did 3.5 miles which is 5.6k. OMG, I did 3 5ks in 3 days! I am now really worried that I am going to be so sore tomorrow. I was already a little stiff throughout the day, but I am worried how I will feel getting up tomorrow! I would highly recommend a 5k running workshop/clinic/camp to anyone who is trying to run. They are accommodating all speeds, we have 4 coaches every practice. There are people of all shapes, sizes and ages - and you'll surely find someone who is a running mate for you! I found the info for the practice group on the site of the event, you can check on local events here: http://www.runningintheusa.com/Race/Default.aspx

Nice, this looks like it is pretty much the same as PB2 - just a lot cheaper!

There are so many different "phase 2"s out there, can you tell us what your Doc said what you can eat during phase 2?

Congratulations - I am not sure what I am hoping for, considering I am still at a 34.8 BMI but I am hoping closer to 30 than to 40. I just need someone to hitch my waggon to, and hope they'll pull me through!

Well, from what I understand from an earlier topic, Cool Headed was informed by her/his doctor that it wasn't covered. It's still weird, since Medicare is a federal program as someone mentioned. Is this something you can go with? I mean, if they approve it for some, they should pay for you too. BCBS of Michigan covers it, but BCBS is a regional thing. You said you have BCBS as a secondary insurance, did you ever check with them?

GNC Amplified Wheybolic Extreme Chocolate! (http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3509954) I got approval for this from my nutritionist - very high quality Protein isolates (much better apparently than protein concentrate). 60g of protein for 280 calories, though I usually take half of it, so 30g of protein for 140 calories. The container then has 34 servings, and I usually get it on sale for $40. If you make it in a "Magic bullet" style blender, it gets thick and creamy, if you just shake it in a bottle, it has the consistency of chocolate milk. I like both, depending on what I am in the mood for. I usually add some Benefiber, to get that taken care off...you'll see :-) Give it a try, you can return open containers at GNC for a full refund, so you really have nothing to lose!

Weird, I was told at my intro seminar that Medicare definitely covers it, that's why I ask. I am wondering if that is also a state matter like for BCBS

What she said ^^^

I believe you need to increase your limit a little bit. The problem is, that you can barely find anything that is approved for this kind of weight in the $1000 category. I have a Sole, available at Dick's Sporting Goods and now I saw also at Sears. I love my Sole and we actually just got a second one. I wanted something different with more electronic frills but man was I sorry immediately. The Livestrong treadmill (which was actually more expensive) was such a disappointment - clearly they spent more on frills and less on sturdy built and smooth operation. Switching between speeds almost came to a halt for a second, speeding up was nice and fast but slowing down almost made me stumble every time. In addition - and I didn't know that was important - the Livestrong does not have the bottom of the belt covered. Well, you may think you don't need it but if you are using it in a carpeted area even on a rubber underground, it will pick up static...and ours picked up so much, that when I touched a metal part while running, it would reset within a fraction of a second and reset all my running and what not. Livestrong -- totally NOT recommended. Now, here is what I can say about the Sole: 325-pound capacity 245-pound machine weight -- I believe the much higher weight of the treadmill itself is responsible for "see below" Very solid built, made me feel very secure at 270 pounds. Just because they are approved for your weight doesn't mean it feels good to walk on it. No squeaking, let me repeat that. No. squeaking. I never liked treadmills that were too flimsy because with every step I took on them I heard them call me FAT. COW. FAT. COW. It was so depressing. The Sole is totally "sound free" and tells me "Come on, walk a little on me!!!" Oh, and that is even true when I was running at 4mph with 260 pounds. And I can tell you, a 260 pound woman running is quite the stress test for a treadmill. Walking is one thing, running...oh my! Comes with a heart rate strap and integrated heart rate monitor (but I have my own and don't use it) Treadmills are always on "super sale", pretty much always half off, I don't know why. Dumb marketing... http://www.dicksspor...oductId=4307837 http://www.sears.com...=2&blockType=L2 You may want to check Craigslist for your area, or eBay maybe you can get a deal.

italianmama41, yes - I would be careful with ordering too much, but good to get started early!

You are probably sleeved longer than I am and know this better. I believe it is a good procedure to know that a patient can follow some basic instructions before (and then after) a surgery. Again, it is NOT just about a few carbs! Who cares about ketosis. It's about a patient being able and willing to take instructions seriously and to follow instructions for just a few weeks. And if those are not followed after surgery, the results can be FATAL. Don't you remember how it was for you shortly after surgery? Not being able to resist the temptation can be very serious. I have a problem sticking with a diet for life but I sure can restrain myself for a couple of weeks if my life depends on it. So, I believe the surgeon made the right decision in this situation, and you don't think so. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree - which closes the case for me and I'll stop watching the topic.

And remember, we are sleevers, it's not like you can NEVER have it again - unless you are talking about coconut shavings or if you are in the habit of eating straw and hair :-)