Okay, boys and girls....I would like to have as much input here as you can spare.

This is the deal.

As I have mentioned before my MIL lives with me. She will be 87 in the spring. She's in great shape for 87, but she won't live forever, obviously.

My husband has one brother (in another state). Recently we met up with their cousin N (reunion) whose mom was Aunt Louise. Aunt Louise died a couple of years ago. She was about the same age as my MIL. Cousin N is a retired high school principal (CA district) and her pension is 101% of her salary. Her husband just started drawing his SS because he wanted to wait until he could collect full benefits. They have a very nice income, which I do not begrudge them.

Cousin N mentioned to my DH and my BIL that they needed to "get on the stick" and start disposing of their mom's money, meaning pay it out to themselves, have her sign over property, etc. Otherwise, she said, Medicaid would not pay for extended care when the time comes. She said there is a 3 year "look back" period (I think it's 5 in Texas). That means she can't go into long term care at the government's expense until all her money has been gone for 3 years.

Cousin L and her sister had their mom give them all her worldly goods while she still lived in her home. They paid a Mexican woman $50 per day to take care of her, 24 hours a day, 6 days a week for the last year or so. When the look back period was up, they declared her indigent and put her in a nursing home at Medicaid's expense.

My BIL was horrified. He considers this to be unethical, immoral, and fraudulent. I agree with him. My DH is straddling the fence.

My MIL has about $400,000 in assets. Her income is not shabby - about $2000 per month. She has nursing home insurance that will pay $45 per day. My BIL and I think that when the time comes, we should put her in a nice home and use whatever of HER money is necessary to pay the bills. Whatever is left, the boys can split when she dies. It will not be necessary to apply for Medicaid at all.

Cousin N's feelings have been very wounded as a result of my BIL's indictment of her (at least that's what she calls it). Her argument is why should the government get her mom's house/money and leave nothing for her kids. Lots of other people, who never owned property or saved a dime, are living in extended care on Medicaid. She says it's not fair for her to pay and them not to.

My MIL, by the way, is all for this scheme.

Personally, I dont have a conflict with transfering assets to siblings, but not for personal gain or inheritance. Healthcare costs are huge and that 400K you are referring to in assets could quite easily dissapear if you need a higher level of care in a CCRC or nursing home. A mediocre one in TX costs more than 3000 per month, a good one over 4,000 and an exceptional one between 4 and 5 k in TX.

What other reason could there be? If my MIL has enough money ($800 pension, $1200 SS, $1350 private insurance, plus $1650 from her savings to equal $5000 per month) why shouldn't we use all of those to finance her care, instead of transferring her money to my DH and his brother and getting the government to pick up the slack? Or putting her in a less costly home so that DH and BIL don't have to forfeit any of "their" money (inheritance)?

It's not their money until she dies. Until then, it should be used for her support and care. That's my opinion, and my BIL's (DH hasn't cast his vote yet).

My MIL is a die-hard Republican, yet here she is, wanting to fleece the system. Cracks me up.....

I'm wondering....with an income of $2000 per month, will she still qualify for Medicaid, even after her assets are depleted? That seems like a pretty high income to get assistance, plus she will have $1350 per month from the long term care insurance. Will that ($3350 per month) pay for a decent nursing home? What do the reallynice ones cost?

I just went thru the Medicaid procedure for my Grandmother. I am her power of attorney and I live in Oklahoma. I'm sure every State is different, but here, her income could not be more than $1700.00, she makes $1500 per month, so she qualified for Medicaid. She had a massive stroke and needs 24/7 care so my mom was unable to lift her and take care of her, so we had to put her in a nursing home. The way Medicaid does it, you continue getting the ss checks, and your payment to the nursing home is due, they allow the family to keep $50 per month to cover expenses (diapers, etc). We take the $50 and pay toward a pre-arranged funeral that we are paying for. My Grandmother sold her house 20 years ago and depleted all her money so she did not have any assets.

I do know to get approved on medicaid without going in a nursing home you have to make only like $600 per month, but the qualifications are much different if the person is going into a home.

Also, they did go back 3 years on my grandmothers finances.

The cost of nursing homes vary, depending on how much care is needed/ also if they want private room, they can go all the way up to 10,000 per month. My grandmothers runs about $4,000 per month, although we only pay $1450.00.

One other thing, instead of a nursing home, if her finances allow, I would opt for a private nurse.

Also, one of the places you can gather information from is a case worker at your local hospital. They really helped me out in making decisions for my grandmother, they new all about the medicaid approval procedure and if she would or would not qualify. You can just call the local hospital, any hospital your MIL has been in and ask for the case worker on duty and she should be able to answer all your questions.

If everyone should get free elder care, regardless of how much money he/she has in the bank, why shouldn't families (especially low-income families) get free medical care? How about free child care? Does the government owe old, rich people more than it owes poor children?

I'm very curious about what I perceive as a double standard.

I'm not of the opinion that everyone should get free elder care. You had a lot of people telling you "if she has the money she should pay". I don't think that planning for retirement makes you less deserving of "free money" than those who didn't plan for retirement. This doesn't mean "free elder care for everyone". Maybe it means "no free care for anyone". Is there a double standard in that? Or did you mean "double standard" in the general sense, and not specific to what I had said?

YOu know over in CHina the government there takes care of thier seniors unlike us over here. My nephew travels there and so does my bnl and the cost of health care is so cheap but yet, One thing my nephew also said and by the way he was in Bancock Hospital for 17days, he got a copy of his bill everyday, also if he had a credit card from one of the local banks there he got a 20% discount on his bill. He said he had the best care over there than he had ever gotten here. Now, he sets his doctor appts according to his travel schedule for work, when he see's his doctor it a visit with the doctor himself for at least 1hr no less he says and gets his medicine there, which the doct visit is only 10.00 and med. 30.00 for 4 different types, Here is 1hr wait for doct, 10min with doct.(cause he is so busy and dont have time to listen) and the medicine we check and here with ins coverage would have costed him 450.00..Now you tell me our governments give a damn about us or our elderly parents,..and again our parents raised us and gave up time and sleep and money once they reach a certain age its our turn to help them out wether or not the stupid gov helps or not. I dont have time for some idiot behind a desk to tell me they cant take care of my mother or father....:angry Sorry, it just sickens me:tired

I'm not of the opinion that everyone should get free elder care. You had a lot of people telling you "if she has the money she should pay". I don't think that planning for retirement makes you less deserving of "free money" than those who didn't plan for retirement. This doesn't mean "free elder care for everyone". Maybe it means "no free care for anyone". Is there a double standard in that? Or did you mean "double standard" in the general sense, and not specific to what I had said?

No, I think the double standard is the way people view Medicaid for elder care as opposed to children's Medicaid programs.

Why is it acceptable for someone's mom to give away her money, then live out her life at the state's expense, but the single mom who looks to the same state for similar assistance is often vilified.

Hardly anyone rants and raves against old people draining the taxpayers via their excessive Medicaid expenses. Poor people, however, get that all the time.

No, I think the double standard is the way people view Medicaid for elder care as opposed to children's Medicaid programs.

Why is it acceptable for someone's mom to give away her money, then live out her life at the state's expense, but the single mom who looks to the same state for similar assistance is often vilified.

Hardly anyone rants and raves against old people draining the taxpayers via their excessive Medicaid expenses. Poor people, however, get that all the time.

There is a vilification of poverty and of the poor and from what I have been reading this attitude originated with an off-shoot of Protestantism - Calvinism. According to Alain de Botton in his book, Status Anxiety, many 19th century Christian thinkers came to think that wealth in this world was a mark of God's favour and thus " the Poor are Sinful and Corrupt and Owe their Poverty to their Stupidity." The writer notes that this feeling was particularly prevalent in America.

Add to this the fact that it is not easy to like poor people. They seem to live muddled and chaotic lives and usually have bad taste. And the middle class, the backbone of any stable society, is under attack or, at least, feels itself to be under attack. It is understandable that there will be tensions and resentment.

Nevertheless, most of you are Christian, and Jesus's take on the poor was very different. His instruction on this issue is much more challenging.

This is not to say that we should not care for our ageing folk. These are not only people who created us, their own blood children, but who created our society through working hard, paying their taxes, engaging in the community and by voting. We owe them a lot, both singly as their children and collectively as a society.

the quality of care an individual will receive on medicaid does not compare to the quality of care someone will receive individually paying. don't they want their mom to have the best? why save money for your elderly years if you are just going to get on medicaid and let the government pay for you in the end. and again, what they have to offer is certainly not the greatest.

We will keep my MIL with us as long as we can. My brother-in-law does not want any of his mom's money while she is alive. He wants to pay her way with her income and nursing home insurance, plus whatever it takes from her principle. He estimates $1000-$1500 per month from her assets to keep her in a nice place. There would still be money left for "her boys" after she died - just not as much.

My MIL tells them ("the boys") to spend the money. She doesn't care on what, as long as the government doesn't get it. My BIL pretty much discounts her input. He thinks she's less than competent.

I'm wondering....with an income of $2000 per month, will she still qualify for Medicaid, even after her assets are depleted? That seems like a pretty high income to get assistance, plus she will have $1350 per month from the long term care insurance. Will that ($3350 per month) pay for a decent nursing home? What do the reallynice ones cost?

Carlene -- Mother is currently in the skilled nursing section of the nursing home, but medicare will only pay for 20 days so she'll be coming home soon. She has recovered from her illness pretty well, but she's on the verge of Alzheimer's. The nursing home told me that if I put her in there it will cost about $3000 per month for the room and board and $124 a DAY for her medications. That is more than I make. Mother put all of her investments in all of our names in 2001 so we hope to get some of that, but when the money runs out, patients are automatically put on Medicaid in our state. So nearly all nursing home patients are on Medicaid as well as Medicare. Mother has a long term care insurance policy (we must all get that) plus her pension checks and social security. We could just about swing the $3000 room and board, but there is no way we can manage the medicine tab. I don't know what to do except keep her with me as long as possible. When she gets to the stage that she is a danger to herself and others, I'll just have to put her in the nursing home. I'm not looking forward to it. My aunt had Alzheimer's for about 10 years and was in the nursing home for about 6 of those years. She had no assets so she was on Medicaid from day 1. The thing is that mother was just not supposed to live to be 86, but she did and so we're faced with a big problem. Personally I hope she lives to be 90, but I don't know how we'll pay for that. Taking care of the elderly can be a big problem.

I just went thru the Medicaid procedure for my Grandmother. I am her power of attorney and I live in Oklahoma. I'm sure every State is different, but here, her income could not be more than $1700.00, she makes $1500 per month, so she qualified for Medicaid. She had a massive stroke and needs 24/7 care so my mom was unable to lift her and take care of her, so we had to put her in a nursing home. The way Medicaid does it, you continue getting the ss checks, and your payment to the nursing home is due, they allow the family to keep $50 per month to cover expenses (diapers, etc). We take the $50 and pay toward a pre-arranged funeral that we are paying for. My Grandmother sold her house 20 years ago and depleted all her money so she did not have any assets.

I do know to get approved on medicaid without going in a nursing home you have to make only like $600 per month, but the qualifications are much different if the person is going into a home.

Also, they did go back 3 years on my grandmothers finances.

The cost of nursing homes vary, depending on how much care is needed/ also if they want private room, they can go all the way up to 10,000 per month. My grandmothers runs about $4,000 per month, although we only pay $1450.00.

Sunshine -- I too live in Oklahoma and my mother makes about $2200 a month with her pension and social security funds. Does that make her uanble to get any state aid? That would be a disaster.

The nursing home told me that if I put her in there it will cost about $3000 per month for the room and board and $124 a DAY for her medications.

That's a HUGE amount for meds. Are you paying that much while she lives with you? I would talk to her doctor about generics. Also, is that after her Medicare Part D pays, or before?

If she qualifies for Medicaid they will pick up her entire drug bill but it has to be on their formulary, or pre-approved. They won't pay for just any prescription the doctor writes.

My DH has a friend who just put his wife in one of the nicest nursing homes in our area. It is $5000 per month and she has to have total care as she recently fell and broke her pelvis. Medicare is paying for the first 90 days 100%. She has only been there a few days and is already going downhill. She has suddenly become incontinent (according to the home) and now they have her in diapers. They also have her totally drugged up. Her husband thinks this is the "beginning of the end" (he hasn't visited her yet, at the home's suggestion) but I think it's just typical of nursing home care - drug them and diaper them so they are less trouble. She's only 74.

I haven't read all the responses (so I don't know whose toes I'm stepping on), but I think people who play that game to inherit the money are greedy and that their parents did a piss poor job of raising ethical people...so I guess they--in some karmic way--may deserve those Medicaid facilities. But I wouldn't put MY mom in one to make a buck.

Mom has a monthly income of about $1700 and is currently a resident of an assisted living facility the bill for which is $3425 per month and will be going up because she is going to need MORE ongoing care. She has a Long Term Care Policy that will--for a short time--pay a little over half the cost, leaving Mom a couple of hundred a month for medication and Depends and haircuts. For as long as Mother is a candidate for a nice assisted living facility that doesn't even have a place for those with advanced cognitive problems or bad medical problems...my sister and I and our husbands will do our damnedest to keep her OUT of a Medicaid-accepting nursing home. We eventually had to place her husband in one of those and they are just nasty...even the best ones are nasty.

Now, I WILL confess to the following...when Mom's husband was diagnosed with Alzheimer's--over twenty years ago and there were no programs for spouses in that situation--I found an attorney and a court and arranged a legal separation between Mom and her husband. That meant he had court ordered spousal support AND that her house--which he had never paid for--was definitely HER HOUSE. When he eventully needed a nasty old nursing home...we finally found him a very small place ( < 25 beds) out in the woods. His income was figured at his gross, less any court-ordered payments (which we kept at about 50% of the income), and his $25/month allowance. In those days, had we not done that, HER house would have been sold to pay for HIS nursing home care and SHE would have been indigent for all this time. And, now, she'd be on the dole.

So, based on my experience, when a spouse "sets aside" enough money for his or her own basic needs, that's one thing. But when kids deprive their parents of nice, upscale assisted living facilities such as the one my mom is in , or even one of the really, really nice expensive ones...so that they can have a larger inheritance...well, they are pigs and I hope that what goes around comes around. They are abusing taxpayers AND their parents to make a buck...how despicable.

Sunshine -- I too live in Oklahoma and my mother makes about $2200 a month with her pension and social security funds. Does that make her uanble to get any state aid? That would be a disaster.

From what I was told, yes, It would make her unable to get any state aid, partially. She probably would qualify for partial aid but not full. They told me $1700 was cut off, if she was going in nursing home. I have to go for approval every year too. Tons of paperwork I fill out every April to keep my grandmother on state care.

PS - what part of Oklahoma do you live in? I live in Tulsa.

Sue...

I wish you'd stop beating around the bush and just tell us what you think....LOL

My first thought was, why does the cousin care? If the BIL is against it, and your husband is kind of on the fence, they just need to work it out with their mom, right?

I wonder if it's possible for you to arrange tours of some of the Medicare accepting facilities. Then she would have a better idea what she would be going into, if she were receiving gov't care. It would be horrible for her to be all gung ho about this, and then regret it once she's actually in the home.

Personally, I don't think I could do it. I know for a fact that my mom is specifically saving money so that we'll have something when she passes on. It's far more than we'll need for funeral expenses or anything like that, she wants to make sure that we're doing well for a while after that. Whether that was the case or not, I'd plan on getting her the best care I possibly could, and if that means it dips into the money she's saved for us to inherit, then so be it. (btw, I HATE talking about that stuff with my mom. She's started to tell me that I need to nag her to write a will and stuff. eww)