Okay, boys and girls....I would like to have as much input here as you can spare.

This is the deal.

As I have mentioned before my MIL lives with me. She will be 87 in the spring. She's in great shape for 87, but she won't live forever, obviously.

My husband has one brother (in another state). Recently we met up with their cousin N (reunion) whose mom was Aunt Louise. Aunt Louise died a couple of years ago. She was about the same age as my MIL. Cousin N is a retired high school principal (CA district) and her pension is 101% of her salary. Her husband just started drawing his SS because he wanted to wait until he could collect full benefits. They have a very nice income, which I do not begrudge them.

Cousin N mentioned to my DH and my BIL that they needed to "get on the stick" and start disposing of their mom's money, meaning pay it out to themselves, have her sign over property, etc. Otherwise, she said, Medicaid would not pay for extended care when the time comes. She said there is a 3 year "look back" period (I think it's 5 in Texas). That means she can't go into long term care at the government's expense until all her money has been gone for 3 years.

Cousin L and her sister had their mom give them all her worldly goods while she still lived in her home. They paid a Mexican woman $50 per day to take care of her, 24 hours a day, 6 days a week for the last year or so. When the look back period was up, they declared her indigent and put her in a nursing home at Medicaid's expense.

My BIL was horrified. He considers this to be unethical, immoral, and fraudulent. I agree with him. My DH is straddling the fence.

My MIL has about $400,000 in assets. Her income is not shabby - about $2000 per month. She has nursing home insurance that will pay $45 per day. My BIL and I think that when the time comes, we should put her in a nice home and use whatever of HER money is necessary to pay the bills. Whatever is left, the boys can split when she dies. It will not be necessary to apply for Medicaid at all.

Cousin N's feelings have been very wounded as a result of my BIL's indictment of her (at least that's what she calls it). Her argument is why should the government get her mom's house/money and leave nothing for her kids. Lots of other people, who never owned property or saved a dime, are living in extended care on Medicaid. She says it's not fair for her to pay and them not to.

My MIL, by the way, is all for this scheme.

My first thought was, why does the cousin care? If the BIL is against it, and your husband is kind of on the fence, they just need to work it out with their mom, right?

I wonder if it's possible for you to arrange tours of some of the Medicare accepting facilities. Then she would have a better idea what she would be going into, if she were receiving gov't care. It would be horrible for her to be all gung ho about this, and then regret it once she's actually in the home.

Personally, I don't think I could do it. I know for a fact that my mom is specifically saving money so that we'll have something when she passes on. It's far more than we'll need for funeral expenses or anything like that, she wants to make sure that we're doing well for a while after that. Whether that was the case or not, I'd plan on getting her the best care I possibly could, and if that means it dips into the money she's saved for us to inherit, then so be it. (btw, I HATE talking about that stuff with my mom. She's started to tell me that I need to nag her to write a will and stuff. eww)

My DH's cousin doesn't "care" so much as her feelings are hurt. She thought she was giving them (DH and his brother) good advice, but my BIL recoiled in horror at her suggestion. So things are kind of strained between them right now.

My BIL will never, ever agree to spend down their mom's assets in order to get her into subsidized nursing care. He finds it morally offensive to even consider such a thing.

They don't like discussing this stuff with my MIL, either. She has a will, fortunately. It's very simple...she has two children and they each get 50% of her estate. My DH doesn't get one dime more because she lives with us and we are okay with that.

My MIL says she hopes she dies before she has to go into a nursing home - any nursing home. I tend to agree with her. Even the best ones are lousy. We will keep her in our home as long as we possibly can. I hope the nursing home thing is never an issue we have to seriously consider.

My own mother suddenly died a year ago this past April. She died two months to the day after my brother, her youngest child, died not soon after he had been diagnosed with bowel cancer. Both deaths had badly damaged our small family. Both deaths were unexpected, too. One thing that my mother had done before she died was keep her Will up to date. This made life much easier on my surviving brother and myself. It was in the nature of a gift from her to us.

It also got me off my butt and into a lawyer's office after a lifetime of procrastination. Yep, thanks to my mum, my mate and I finally got around to drawing up our own Wills. When I say that this is probably one of the best gifts that you can give the next generation, I am speaking from experience. It turned out that I ended up with the executor's job for my mother's estate although it was previewed that my brother and I would share the job. This is a tough job and certainly one that I didn't want. The clarity of her Will and the fact that she had left her estate in good order has made it easier however.

Sue...

I wish you'd stop beating around the bush and just tell us what you think....LOL

YOU KNOW ME, CARLENE, I'D RATHER BITE MY TONGUE THAN OFFEND ANYONE!

:heh:

My mom was in a senior community for a dozen years or so before she moved to assisted living. I even found neighbors whose kids (in their 50's and 60's) would come lock the parents (in their late 70's and up) in their apartments at night so they wouldn't wander...but leave them alone. So if the building went up in flames, Mom or Dad was toast. And, given the parents' cognitive situations, they were the most likely people in the building to burn the place down. Sad to say, every one of those apartments was 100% paid for (no mortgages allowed) and could have been sold to help pay for assisted living, at least for a few years. But, no...until I reported them, they were just locking Mom in at night so she wouldn't wander and bother the neighbors...and so that their inheritance would be intact.

How wrong is it to hope that if they DO inherit money under these circumstances, they use it to buy something they choke on or that crashes while they're in it, huh? I have my faults...plenty of them...but not getting my mom appropriate care so that I can profit...that just is NOT one of them.

I even found neighbors whose kids (in their 50's and 60's) would come lock the parents (in their late 70's and up) in their apartments at night so they wouldn't wander...but leave them alone. So if the building went up in flames, Mom or Dad was toast. And, given the parents' cognitive situations, they were the most likely people in the building to burn the place down.

I stopped letting my mom cook (except for the microwave) after she mixed up a meatloaf in a plastic bowl and put it in the oven to bake....in the same plastic bowl. You have never seen such a mess.

In my late stepfather's Alzheimer's support group meeting, we had a lady who TRIED to work...but whose husband kept setting the microwave for 60:00 minutes to make a cup of instant coffee. But your mess sounds WAY bigger.

In my late stepfather's Alzheimer's support group meeting, we had a lady who TRIED to work...but whose husband kept setting the microwave for 60:00 minutes to make a cup of instant coffee. But your mess sounds WAY bigger.

We ended up throwing the oven racks out and didn't replace them until my mom died and we sold the house. We scraped the plastic off the bottom of the oven with a razor blade scraper. But the SMELL was AWFUL and took FOREVER to get rid of!!!!!!!!!

Yesterday morning my MIL decided to "toast" her Cereal in the microwave. I have no clue why she thought boxed cereal needed to be, or could be, toasted in a microwave, but anyway...she set it for one minute (she thought) and burned the cereal. Smelled up my house for the entire day!

I swear, it's like raising kids all over again!

Carlene,

I have been down this road with my mother. Ok, so here's my story in a nutshell. The nursing homes will usually want to assume all of the assets. Step one, we sold the house before she went to the nursing home and her bank account was transferred into my name. When it was time for her to actually go to a nursing home they took her pension and social security checks which both totalled about $1375. Because she had medicare it took care of the rest of the payment. The total bill for the nursing home which was a very nice one was $3600 a month. I live in Maryland. So if you are looking to pass on an inheritance start thinking about what to do with her house if at a minimum have it transferred to someone else's name and have a responsible party take over her bank account. My mom's attitude was that I was her only child and she and my dad wanted to make sure that I was left with what they had worked hard for. I hope this helps.

Carlene,

I have been down this road with my mother. Ok, so here's my story in a nutshell. The nursing homes will usually want to assume all of the assets. Step one, we sold the house before she went to the nursing home and her bank account was transferred into my name. When it was time for her to actually go to a nursing home they took her pension and social security checks which both totalled about $1375. Because she had medicare it took care of the rest of the payment. The total bill for the nursing home which was a very nice one was $3600 a month. I live in Maryland. So if you are looking to pass on an inheritance start thinking about what to do with her house if at a minimum have it transferred to someone else's name and have a responsible party take over her bank account. My mom's attitude was that I was her only child and she and my dad wanted to make sure that I was left with what they had worked hard for. I hope this helps.

Thanks, but my MIL sold her house 3 years ago when she came to live with us. She has savings that total about $400 K but I don't think my DH or his brother would ever consider turning that over to a nursing home. That just sounds crazy. Why would anyone do that?

Anyway, my MIL has income (SS, pension and an annuity) plus long term care insurance that total about $3750 per month. Any additional expenses the "boys" plan to pay out of her assets. My BIL estimates those should not be more than $1000-$1500 per month, so she should have enough money to pay her own way for however long she might live in a nursing facility. She is almost 87 now. Medicare does not pay for long-term nursing home care. Are you sure you didn't mean to say Medicaid?

Carlene, you're right Medicaid did kick in to pay for the rest. My mom was in the nursing home for almost 2 years. When I say they ask for your assets, I did not mean that you would turn over the money to the nursing home but if there was insufficient money to cover expenses like from a pension, ss, etc they would have the right to have a family member pay from those funds. That was just a way to get around a bunch of dumb stuff by having her bank account put in my name. It sounds like your MIL will be ok.

Carlene, I recommend you speak with a tax expert regarding the 400K. As a Canadian I no little about US tax laws but I would find out how to pay as little tax on that 400K as possible. In Canada estate taxes are high and any money or assets willed to individuals are taxed at 50%. This money has alraedy been taxed once so I don't see moving that money so taxes are avoided as morally wrong.

My MIL lives with me and hopefully will until she dies, she is 77 years old so that should be for a long time. She drives me crazy but she is my wifes mother and my kids grandmother and becuase of that she is given a free pass to drive me crazy.

I believe that the social safety net is there for those in need and those who are not in need should not be manipulating the system. I have worked hard so I can live a nice life and I am not only proud of that I am also proud that I am able to hlep support those who have less. Taxes, in many ways redistribute wealth, and this creates a kinder society for all of us. My wife and I will continue to pay for my MIL because we can and that is the good news.

I like the way you, your hubby and your BIL think on this, your other relative may be upset with your BIL because she is feeling a tinge of guilt

The first $2 million is exempt from estate tax, beginning in 2006, and will increase steadily to $3.5 million in 2009. It will supposedly be repealed altogether in 2010.

The first $2 million is exempt from estate tax, beginning in 2006, and will increase steadily to $3.5 million in 2009. It will supposedly be repealed altogether in 2010.

Very nice.

I have to agree with Sue that the idea of people doing things for inheritance gain before their parents die is a pretty horrible thing. Organizing is one thing, to make sure that your parents get the best care you can give them, without the nursing home (or whatever) diving into the funds as much as they can, but still...

Carlene, I recommend you speak with a tax expert regarding the 400K. As a Canadian I no little about US tax laws but I would find out how to pay as little tax on that 400K as possible. In Canada estate taxes are high and any money or assets willed to individuals are taxed at 50%. This money has alraedy been taxed once so I don't see moving that money so taxes are avoided as morally wrong.

My MIL lives with me and hopefully will until she dies, she is 77 years old so that should be for a long time. She drives me crazy but she is my wifes mother and my kids grandmother and becuase of that she is given a free pass to drive me crazy.

I believe that the social safety net is there for those in need and those who are not in need should not be manipulating the system. I have worked hard so I can live a nice life and I am not only proud of that I am also proud that I am able to hlep support those who have less. Taxes, in many ways redistribute wealth, and this creates a kinder society for all of us. My wife and I will continue to pay for my MIL because we can and that is the good news.

I like the way you, your hubby and your BIL think on this, your other relative may be upset with your BIL because she is feeling a tinge of guilt

Actually, although my personal experience as another lucky Canucki has been quite different from that of Tommy O, my advice is the same. You must consult an accountant.

My Mum died a year and a half ago. She left a considerable estate and the bulk of this will go to my brother and myself. I also own property but I have been off work and have been receiving a small disability benefit at this time. I am now in the weird position of being worth - on paper - a hefty chunk of money indeed and yet I am receiving government rebates because my income is such that I "look" poor.

To add to the irony of the situation, my company has just offered my a nice chunk of change and an enriched pension in order to accept early retirement. I went for it and will be officially retired as of the first of December.

Certainly none of this was done deliberately and none of my rebate cheques amount to big bucks. Indeed I was able to survive on my measly long term disability pension cash because I had been able to put away money for a rainy day and because I have a wonderful husband who is working, and because my mortgage is paid off, I have no children, and I have rental income. Lucky me.

Let us now look at my colleagues, younger families, ones with mortgages, kids, and a couple of vehicles. I had a good job. My monthly take home disability pension pay is what I would have taken home, had I worked a bit of overtime, in one week.

And then, in a gruesome way, I guess you could say that I got lucky; I lost my Mum but fell into a state of financial "freedom." This is my story and doesn't apply to all those other hard working folks with their families who are out there. Green is very aware that she is a lucky girl in many ways. It is important to pay attention to our fellow families. It is important to understand how strong the safeguards that pin them up are. This is a community issue, I think.

Carlene,

I have been down this road with my mother. Ok, so here's my story in a nutshell. The nursing homes will usually want to assume all of the assets. Step one, we sold the house before she went to the nursing home and her bank account was transferred into my name. When it was time for her to actually go to a nursing home they took her pension and social security checks which both totalled about $1375. Because she had medicare it took care of the rest of the payment. The total bill for the nursing home which was a very nice one was $3600 a month. I live in Maryland. So if you are looking to pass on an inheritance start thinking about what to do with her house if at a minimum have it transferred to someone else's name and have a responsible party take over her bank account. My mom's attitude was that I was her only child and she and my dad wanted to make sure that I was left with what they had worked hard for. I hope this helps.

So...you had the taxpayers (that is, the rest of us) pay the $2000 a month difference, so that you could pocket "your inheritance?" You feel okay about that?

The nursing homes will usually want to assume all of the assets.

Really? Tthat just doesn't sound right. It doesn't make much sense, either. Why would anyone sign control of their, or a family member's, assets over to the nursing home? I could see - maybe - monthly cash amounts that went toward the cost of the care... but do you mean assest in terms of houses, cars, investments, etc?