I've only been here for a couple of weeks but I am stunned by the number of posts where people ask if it's ok to ignore their post surgical dietary instructions because they really want to eat something they know they shouldn't.

Is it really worth the chance of having complications to satisfy a craving? Do you want to be cut open again to deal with a leak, infection or some other complication? Are people really lacking that much basic common sense? It honestly boggles my mind to read so many posts like that.

Maybe its because you have only been here a couple of weeks, but your post ( in my opinion) is insensitive and judgemental... People who need this surgery are not typically good at staying on diets, or are yo yo dieters who sometimes fail when it comes to always doing the right thing. I am a professional dieter, but after my surgeon had me on liquid protein skakes for FIVE weeks, even commercials for McDonalds looked like gourmet cuisine...

I think some come here to vent, some come to be talked out of a temptation because this? ...Is a SUPPORT group...

To say that people are "lacking in common sense" because they may need help to stay on track is just ... mean.

I hope if you have a rough day and are tempted, that you get the support you need and are not belittled.

If you're here, chances are you are well aware that weight issues make for a lifelong battle. First, you should know that doctors' post-surgical programs and advice varies greatly - some people are eating different things sooner than others. So there are always questions. Also, as I'm sure you can imagine, there is a little bit of a food funeral that goes on after surgery - I know all too well because I had my surgery a few days before Thanksgiving and prepared a feast for my family right after while being on liquids. It was hard, and I was drooling most of the time, but I got through it.

And yes, it's very easy to be tempted, especially if you've been eating one type of thing (liquids, mushies) for a very long time. I could go on and on for reasons, but Strangefruit is right - this is a support group and people vent or write when they have questions or are having a hard time. While it is always best to follow your doctor's advice to the letter, life and temptations and such get in the way. Perhaps it takes a little walking in our shoes to understand where people are coming from, you know? And if you are never tempted, or have a question about what to eat, more power to you.

Dont judge, you may be in the same position after surgery yourself!!

Insensitive and judgmental?? Why? Because she expressed her opinion? Those who post their concerns when they know they've mismanaged their recovery should expect honest responses. Those who feel the original posters of such messages were foolish in their choices have an equal right to post their honest thoughts as those who want to post sincere support and words of understanding and empathy. No one opinion is more or less valid than the other. If support for foolish mistakes is what any of you want or need, and you want that with no possibility naysayers can respond, may I suggest you private message the litany of posters on these boards who regularly offer that kind of sympathetic response. There is a time and place for both to coexist peacefully.

Yea I wouldn't go spouting off about common sense until at least you've had your surgery. It's just as hard being on a liquid diet after surgery as it was before surgery.

"No one opinion is more or less valid than the other." I totally agree.

Some people need the pat on the back others need the kick in the pants. Perhaps everyone posting should add a disclaimer as to what type of response they want. Everyone posting for feedback isn't going to like every answer, that's just the way it is on a public forum.

Goodness, people certainly are taking this personally.

Contrary to what someone inferred, I'm not trying to belittle anyone. I'm genuinely flabbergasted by the behavior I've seen and trying to comprehend why it happens so often. It's probably the engineer in me, always trying to solve problems. I understand the temptations people have, I have them myself. I was stuck at a stoplight in front of a KFC today and my mouth was watering because I smelled the Colonel's secret recipe of eleven herbs and spices. I swear, that chicken smelled like the most delicious thing on the planet. My pre-op diet is kicking my ass and I know for sure the post-op diet will be even worse as my surgeon has an extremely conservative post-op regimen.

Cravings themselves are not the issue. I'm not criticizing anyone for having cravings or temptations, that would be incredibly hypocritical. I completely sympathize with folks who start threads looking for help because they're craving something. That's not what this is about. What I'm having difficulty understanding is this; why do people seek approval from what are basically complete strangers to violate their doctor's directives, when they know it's not in their best interest? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Quite frankly, I'm shocked that people are getting out the torches and pitchforks over this. Perhaps instead of lashing out at me because I touched a nerve, we should figure out why this happens so often and see what can be done about it? That would be support, wouldn't it?

I guess when I read your post Stef, I felt well, kind of attacked. That might not have been the intent but given the voracity of some of the responses, I am guessing I am not the only one. I think that there is a valid point here about taking unnecessary risks but it seemed to get lost in the language. I agree everyone has a right to their opinion but I just wonder if sometimes, some things are best left unsaid? Much like my post, I imagine

Goodness' date=' people certainly are taking this personally.

Contrary to what someone inferred, I'm not trying to belittle anyone. I'm genuinely flabbergasted by the behavior I've seen and trying to comprehend why it happens so often. It's probably the engineer in me, always trying to solve problems. I understand the temptations people have, I have them myself. I was stuck at a stoplight in front of a KFC today and my mouth was watering because I smelled the Colonel's secret recipe of eleven herbs and spices. I swear, that chicken smelled like the most delicious thing on the planet. My pre-op diet is kicking my ass and I know for sure the post-op diet will be even worse as my surgeon has an extremely conservative post-op regimen.

Cravings themselves are not the issue. I'm not criticizing anyone for having cravings or temptations, that would be incredibly hypocritical. I completely sympathize with folks who start threads looking for help because they're craving something. That's not what this is about. What I'm having difficulty understanding is this; why do people seek approval from what are basically complete strangers to violate their doctor's directives, when they know it's not in their best interest? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Quite frankly, I'm shocked that people are getting out the torches and pitchforks over this. Perhaps instead of lashing out at me because I touched a nerve, we should figure out why this happens so often and see what can be done about it? That would be support, wouldn't it?[/quote']

I agree Steph. I'm one of those people who looks for validation wherever I can- I've started a journal and am keeping honest with feelings cravings etc.

I wish I understood why if my doc or any other more experienced expert on something gives me clear advice I still feel a need to challenge it!!! WTHeck- I'm not dumb, just stubborn and invite with food!

The "food funeral" comment was a good one- that's how I feel right now. I'm on pre-op and snuck crackers today - from who?? DUH- I'm only hurting myself so why do I do it???? I put some quotes from this thread on post it notes in my journal- mainly that I DO have common sense a d just because I have spent 20 yrs hating myself doesn't mean I can't love myself enough now to do what I know is best!

I thank you ALL for this thread!!

Sent from my iPhone using VST

Perhaps it was your last two sentences that didn't sit right with people. An addict of any kind knows what they are doing is harmful but they do it anyway. Maybe take that into consideration before you question someone's intelligence.

"I completely sympathize with folks who start threads looking for help because they're craving something. That's not what this is about. What I'm having difficulty understanding is this; why do people seek approval from what are basically complete strangers to violate their doctor's directives, when they know it's not in their best interest? It just doesn't make sense to me."

Most of us are here because we have had - or are having vertical sleeves... but if you read the posts, you will know that doctors directives about these sleeves are as varied as the sands in the ocean.

Some will say they have strict two week pre op all liquid diets... some are allowed Protein based foods during the liquid phase...some don't have ANY kind of pre op diet!

Some are on liquids after surgery...some are on "mushies" (I wasn't)...some are allowed to eat any soft food as early as two weeks after surgery... some - like me - are not allowed ANY carbs - mashed potatoes, rice, Beans - even after 11 weeks after surgery...

Yet, most of the people *are* losing weight... I think we (at least *I*) come here to compare ideas - to see what plan others are following...and whether or not it works... Yes, it's hard to know that I can't have ANY carbs... but then, when I fell and had a Wendy's Chili - I knew it wasn't the end of the world because I also knew that so many other folks had successfully - with their doctors blessing - had a few black beans and it didn't "kill" them or disrupt their weight loss...

Doctors are different and have different plans...Some have shared their caloric intake, which I found helpful, because my doctor will not give me caloric guidelines (and the OCD in me NEEDS guidelines)...all he will say is have x amount of protein and no more than y amount of carbs - ... so it's not that we (I) and taking the advice of total strangers over my doctor, but it is nice to have someone with whom I can ask questions and get advice and take an average... my doc does NOT answer questions... I have posted earlier that he is very much like Dr. Gregory House - a brilliant surgeon, but a bit of a d**k. Some have docs who are overseas and not accessible...

So, it is nice that - yes - total strangers - will share what worked for THEM to give help into making all the pieces fit.

If I meet someone who had surgery on the same date as me, and they have lost 20lbs more than I have, I appreciate reading what worked for them...it may not work for me, but it *might*...

I've only been here for a couple of weeks but I am stunned by the number of posts where people ask if it's ok to ignore their post surgical dietary instructions because they really want to eat something they know they shouldn't.

Is it really worth the chance of having complications to satisfy a craving? Do you want to be cut open again to deal with a leak, infection or some other complication? Are people really lacking that much basic common sense? It honestly boggles my mind to read so many posts like that.

I'm new here too, I've wondered the same thing...I assumed it's a combination of not having been in the pre-op/post-op diet shoes and the fact that people's personalities, addictions and perseverance is way different. I did a 30 day Water fast before, voluntarily as well as several 2-4 week "shake" fasts...for me, I'm not real concerned about surviving pre or post op diet restrictions. I also don't view this surgery as another diet that I can cheat on. Cheating on this life change could be fatal. I'm not going to cheat my 5 kids out of having a mom over a handful of popcorn. What I do is not comment at all on the cheater threads...maybe their journey/addiction is harder and hopefully they'll work it out. I can't offer advice as I haven't had the operation yet. Adding another "why would you do that?!" to their thread probably isn't helpful to them since they are likely asking themselves that...in the mean time, I would just block the pitchfork/attack people - those kinds are on every forum no matter the topic.

Stef I like you LOL And your comments are SPOT ON! It's not cheating when it's post op. It's Russian roulette. Those bites can cause you unbelievable pain and lead to death if you're not lucky.

I am post op. I had a leak, not caused by stupidity, or at least my own LOL (I'm not giving the doc a pass on that he heh). As Tra?? mentioned, I have babies to return home to and for me, I was taken away from my baby because of the severity of my complication. That was hard. More than I can explain, but I can't imagine how that would have felt if I had caused the issue!

Yes people have addictions, but if they can't get them under control prior to the surgery than they shouldn't have the surgery. It's too risky!

So I respond to those posts and often get beat up. I'm hated by half the posters and I think liked by others, but I don't care. What I care about is seeing that no one suffers what I did due to a stupid choice on their part.

I have a feeling you and Traj? (last poster LOL) won't be in that group. Keep that sanity, and even healthy fear of breaking the doc's rules with you alive and well and you'll do fine. I wish you both the best!

Thanks for the well wishes iggy, it's Trajo (short for Tracy Jo) LOL

Goodness' date=' people certainly are taking this personally.

Contrary to what someone inferred, I'm not trying to belittle anyone. I'm genuinely flabbergasted by the behavior I've seen and trying to comprehend why it happens so often. It's probably the engineer in me, always trying to solve problems. I understand the temptations people have, I have them myself. I was stuck at a stoplight in front of a KFC today and my mouth was watering because I smelled the Colonel's secret recipe of eleven herbs and spices. I swear, that chicken smelled like the most delicious thing on the planet. My pre-op diet is kicking my ass and I know for sure the post-op diet will be even worse as my surgeon has an extremely conservative post-op regimen.

Cravings themselves are not the issue. I'm not criticizing anyone for having cravings or temptations, that would be incredibly hypocritical. I completely sympathize with folks who start threads looking for help because they're craving something. That's not what this is about. What I'm having difficulty understanding is this; why do people seek approval from what are basically complete strangers to violate their doctor's directives, when they know it's not in their best interest? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Quite frankly, I'm shocked that people are getting out the torches and pitchforks over this. Perhaps instead of lashing out at me because I touched a nerve, we should figure out why this happens so often and see what can be done about it? That would be support, wouldn't it?[/quote']

This is more than cravings people..your body is shocked and starving!..we are fighting our bodies instinct to survive. Especially early out..it is starvation..its not easy to do the opposite of what your body is fighting to do...that is now whacko., you body doesn't know the surgeons rules..so this isn't a person failing at a diet..it giving in to their bodies needs