I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

I'm a Republican, and I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a shirt that says "Yup..I'm a racist". I'm not a racist anyway, but still. Even if it's "sarcasm", that's not funny. Racism is not something to joke about.

I agree with you and thank you for your sensibility.

And BTW, your first spelling of sarcasm was wrong. I'm sure it was a typo as was the word scholar in the article. But since you brought it up, I felt compelled to also.

I believe I'm allowed to have a spelling error, for I don't claim to be a 'scholar' and then spell it wrong.

I'm a Republican, and I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a shirt that says "Yup..I'm a racist". I'm not a racist anyway, but still. Even if it's "sarcasm", that's not funny. Racism is not something to joke about.

I wouldn't wear it either, but her reason for posting about it was to prove her unrealistic point that Tea partiers are 'racist'. Which is not so. She will spare no lie to thwart the truth about them. It is her goal, as it is every liberals goal, to discredit the good of the party. Nice try Cleo's. But you failed at that one!

Jewish World Review Week of July 6, 2010

And BTW, your first spelling of sarcasm was wrong. I'm sure it was a typo as was the word scholar in the article. But since you brought it up, I felt compelled to also.

I believe I'm allowed to have a spelling error, for I don't claim to be a 'scholar' and then spell it wrong.

The misspelling of scholar wasn't done by the scholars themselves but by the author of the article. :thumbup:

I wouldn't wear it either, but her reason for posting about it was to prove her unrealistic point that Tea partiers are 'racist'. Which is not so. She will spare no lie to thwart the truth about them. It is her goal, as it is every liberals goal, to discredit the good of the party. Nice try Cleo's. But you failed at that one!

Failed? Hardly. Everything I print is the truth. You are in denial and have blinders on and I have proven that over and over again. Even your fellow republican doesn't agree with you.

The tea partiers are nothing more than the same 20% ultra right wing extremists that we've always had in this country but since a progressive, black democratic president now resides in the white house, they are accepting corporate donations and becoming vocal to serve as the mouthpiece (read: w***es) of corporate america and the extremist right wing agenda which is opposed to the successful agenda of Pres. Obama.

Republican Logic - 6 July 2010

This is the elitist, country club republican attitude that the rich have for the working class people. I have warned those on these boards that that is the ultimate goal of the right wing - to make the rich richer, the poor poorer and eliminate the middle class until there is a two class system - and we know which class they'll be in:

The Rich: "Lazy" Unemployed Should Get A Job And Cut My TAXES Now!

With views reminescent of Dickensian England, the Rich are back with a vengenance! You can't keep good billionaires and their intellectual lackeys down:

At the Atlantic Magazine's "Aspen Ideas Festival," the idle rich go to a ski resort town and pay the Atlantic Media Co. a great deal of money to listen to rich people with intellectual credentials of some kind talk at each other for a while. It may surprise you to learn that

these wealthy elites think the biggest problem facing America today is that the wealthy elite have to pay taxes, while the poor and unemployed sit around collecting "Social Security" and "food stamps" and "unemployment benefits

."

Salon, Rich people have solution to economic crisis: Make lazy poor get jobs

[Niall] Ferguson called for what he called "radical" measures. "

I can’t emphasize strongly enough the need for radical fiscal reform to restore the incentives for work and remove the incentives for idleness

."

• Jonathan Chait, The New Republic, Scenes From The Ideas Festival
  

Those damn incentives for idleness. We should ignore that there are 6 unemployed for every job opening. Let them eat cake if they have no bread.

Jewish World Review Week of July 6, 2010

I am glad the government has "forced" certain things, like mandating vaccinations for children for polio and smallpox or we'd still have children dying of these horrible diseases. But I guess those who call themselves pro-life and oppose government "interventions" and "mandates" would prefer the children's deaths to these government "intrusions".

The government mandating a vaccination is a FAR cry from the government mandating whether or not a company like McDonald's can use a clown as a form of advertising, or whether a certain city can sell coke.

I belive that even you are intelligent enough to understand that there are limits to what the government should be allowed to do or not. If you permit one thing, you will be permitting many things and the government has crossed that line lately. It's time to get those who want to remove our freedoms and liberties out of there. There will be a great sweeping in November, I believe. The people do not want the kind of government that you desire, Cleo'smom. That kind of government is for the fearful, who like dependency.

In 1794, when the congress gave $15,000. to assist some french refugees, James Madison, the father of our constitution, stood on the floor of the house to object, saying,"I can not undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituients." He then added "the government is confined to specific objects . It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the Legislative duty." 2 Hundred years later, at least 2/3 of the fed. budget is spent on "objects of benevolence.

This is not what the founding fathers had in mind for America. Our Government is corrupt and greedy.

The government mandating a vaccination is a FAR cry from the government mandating whether or not a company like McDonald's can use a clown as a form of advertising, or whether a certain city can sell coke.

I belive that even you are intelligent enough to understand that there are limits to what the government should be allowed to do or not. If you permit one thing, you will be permitting many things and the government has crossed that line lately. It's time to get those who want to remove our freedoms and liberties out of there. There will be a great sweeping in November, I believe. The people do not want the kind of government that you desire, Cleo'smom. That kind of government is for the fearful, who like dependency.

In 1794, when the congress gave $15,000. to assist some french refugees, James Madison, the father of our constitution, stood on the floor of the house to object, saying,"I can not undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituients." He then added "the government is confined to specific objects . It is not like the state governments, whose powers are more general. Charity is no part of the Legislative duty." 2 Hundred years later, at least 2/3 of the fed. budget is spent on "objects of benevolence.

This is not what the founding fathers had in mind for America. Our Government is corrupt and greedy.

When you refer to the government crossing the line, you are referring to government regulations on private corporations, which I support. Private businesses have shown that they cannot and will not self-regulate. We are currently living with the disasterous de-regulation of Wall Street and how those lack of regulations led to an almost complete collapse of our economy. Thankfully, Obama's economic plan has helped turn that around.

We see how the lack of regulations has affected the lives killed in Massey Mines and with the BP oil spill. We need more, not fewer, regulations. Regulate, baby, regulate.

I want my workplace, car, drinking water, food and air safe. And if it takes more government regulation, then so be it.

It is you who wants to infringe on our freedom to marry who we want or control our bodies. You want the government dictating that and infringing on those freedoms.

Most of the people in this country were dependent on the government long before Obama became president. It only became an issue when he did, however, again reflecting on the never ending hypocrisy. Dependent with social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment, public schools, public roads, clean air, water and safe foods, workers comp., police, fire, etc.. Pres. Obama has not made us more dependent.

The only reason for increases in government aid is the rise in unemployment which doubled under bush from 4% to 8.1%. More people are hurting and in need of aid.

So, when you speak of the increased dependency, what are you referring to? And when you speak of freedoms being taken away, what are you referring to?

Because I haven't had one freedom taken away since Obama was elected. As a matter of fact, the gun-huggers can now run around with their guns strapped on thanks to the right-wing, activist supreme court.

The government mandating a vaccination is a FAR cry from the government mandating whether or not a company like McDonald's can use a clown as a form of advertising,

Trust a neocon to make up lies and sell them as truth (remember death panels?)

A consumer advocacy group, Corporate Accountability International, wants Ronald McDonald to retire. According to a CNN report, Corporate Accountability International plans to host a retirement party for Ronald McDonald as it releases a report Wednesday that calls for McDonald’s to stop using the clown. “For nearly 50 years, Ronald McDonald has hooked kids on unhealthy foods spurring a deadly epidemic of diet-related diseases,” said Deborah Lapidus, the senior organizer at Corporate Accountability International. “Ultimately the report makes the case that it’s time that McDonald’s stop directing fast food to kids. Really, Ronald deserves a break and so do we.”

That's right, Pattygreen, a CONSUMER ADVOCACY GROUP, not the government, wants the clown to retire.

But typical neocon reaction: blame the government. Geez.

The government mandating a vaccination is a FAR cry from the government mandating whether or not a company like McDonald's can use a clown as a form of advertising, or whether a certain city can sell coke.

I belive that even you are intelligent enough to understand that there are limits to what the government should be allowed to do or not. If you permit one thing, you will be permitting many things and the government has crossed that line lately. It's time to get those who want to remove our freedoms and liberties out of there. There will be a great sweeping in November, I believe. The people do not want the kind of government that you desire, Cleo'smom. That kind of government is for the fearful, who like dependency.

It has already been established that republicans will pick up seats in November. Historically, it happens at EVERY mid-term election for EVERY president of BOTH parties. It won't mean anything other than people think that voting for republicans will bring about some positive change in their lives. It won't. They'll just continue to vote no on everything. How many different way can you vote no??

Here's one elected republican who seems to get it. Unfortunately not too many like him around:

From republican (and conservative) Bob Inglis (SC):

*"Too many Republican leaders are acquiescing to a poisonous 'demagoguery' that threatens the party's long-term credibility."

*"[T]ea party favorites such as former vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin and right-wing talk show hosts like Glenn Beck are the culprits."

*Talking about crazy stuff like mythical "death panels" is "the lowest form of political leadership."

*The current Republican "leadership" is not leading, but is "following those (television and talk radio) personalities."

*And finally, check this out:

Inglis said he was too far away during the jeering incident to hear whether the protesters shouted racial epithets, as Lewis and other black lawmakers have claimed. But Inglis said

the behavior was threatening and abusive

.

"I caught him at the door and said, 'John, I guess you've been here before,'" Inglis said.

Inglis, 50, who calls himself a Jack Kemp disciple because he has emphasized outreach to minorities as the late Republican congressman did, thinks

racism is a part of the vitriol directed at President Barack Obama.

"I love the South. I'm a Southerner. But I can feel it,"

he said.

By the way, for anyone who would question Bob Inglis' conservative credentials, you might first want to peruse Project Vote Smart, where you'll see his 0 rating from NARAL, his NRA "A" rating, his 100% Family Research Council score, and his lifetime 93% conservative rating from the American Conservative Union. Inglis also has voted 93.7% of the time with his Republican colleagues during the current Congress. So yeah, he's a Republican. An honest one. What a concept!

dailykos

The Tea Party: A phony grassroots movement headed for political oblivion?

By DOUG THOMPSON

The week’s primaries were supposed to be a celebration for the so-called Tea Party, a phony grassroots movement that is really a front for the extreme right-wing.

Instead, several of the party’s annointed candidates lost to establishment opponents and some who won — like fringe candidate Sharron Angle in the Nevada GOP Senate primary — highlight the con job the Tea Party is trying to pull on American voters.

Notes The Washington Post:

The national “tea party” movement’s recent winning streak broke with Tuesday’s primary results, providing fresh evidence of the decentralized conservative network’s struggle to convert activist anger and energy into electoral results.

That struggle is likely to continue as Republicans head into general elections without knowing whether conservative activists will throw their support behind more moderate GOP nominees. Even the tea party favorites who prevailed on Tuesday face the new challenge of fighting perceptions of extremism among moderate and independent voters.

From California to Virginia (with some notable exceptions), establishment-favored candidates won Tuesday in Republican primary battles for governor, House and Senate. In California, candidates who claimed the conservative mantle were outgunned by well-known and well-funded opponents. And in two congressional races in Virginia, where the tea party movement is popular and abundant, activists were unable to coalesce around a single candidate — illustrating the organizational challenges facing the movement’s grass roots.

A new Washington Post-ABC News polls show half of the American electorate now disapprove of the Tea Party and think of it as too extreme — an 11 point jump in the group’s negative rating.

Angle’s win in Nevada may well be the beginning of the end of the Tea Party. (People are starting to wake up and see them for what they are - phonies).

Writes Brent Budowsky in The Hill:

Will voters favor a candidate who supports saunas and massages for criminals, opposes Social Security and Medicare for seniors and fights against jobless benefits and jobs programs for workers? Don’t bet on it, in Nevada or any other state. Mark the Nevada Senate campaign as leaning blue. The fad of the polyester populists of the right, who will vote like bank lobbyists in Congress, will soon come to an end.

The great Nevada campaign will prove the point I have been making all year.

The Tea Party movement may control the Republican Party at the cost of losing many general elections. It is the oldest and truest timeless rule of politics. Voters oppose the status quo, but oppose extremism even more.

David Corn, writing for Politics Daily, says the more people find out about the Tea Party and the fringe candidates it backs the more the party loses support.

Says Corn:

At first, the TP movement could be seen as a patriotic uprising with a time-tested and honorable moniker. And its original target was President Obama’s health care overhaul — a controversial move that many voters, independents especially, were wary of.

But in recent weeks, the — shall we say — excesses of the Tea Party have been on display.

When

Rand Paul

won Kentucky’s Republican Senate primary, he proudly declared, “I have a message from the Tea Party: we’ve come to take our government back.” Paul, now the closest thing to a national spokesman for Tea Partyism, in the next few days proceeded to round out the usual Tea Party message by noting he did not support all of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and by saying that he believed Obama’s pressure on BP, the despoiler of the Gulf of Mexico, was “un-American.” Paul was simply sharing his true desire for small-government. But his remarks revealed the not-so-pretty libertarian underbelly of the leave-us-alone Tea Party movement and

exposed its fundamental bias against using government to combat such wrongs as corporate pollution or racism. He looked like a John Bircher of the 1950s

— yet he was reflecting the current sentiments of his people.

The backlash is inevitable. The Tea Party is not — and never has been — the “grassroots” movement that is claims. It was born out of a sham grassroots organization created in the office of a Republican consultant for a millionaire GOP client and then nurtured into existance by former Republican Congressman Dick Armey of Texas.

It’s a phony organization, espousing fake idealism, playing on the gullibility of those who flock to so-called “populist movements.” It will make a lot of noise but — in the end — will accomplish nothing.

AMEN!!!

Edited July 11, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom