I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

Associated Press:

The tally of laid-off workers continuing to claim jobless benefits fell by the largest amount in almost a year, suggesting that more unemployed workers may be finding work.

At the same time, new claims for unemployment insurance dipped slightly for the third straight week.

The Dept of Labor says the total unemployment benefit rolls fell by 255,000 to a seasonally adjusted 4.5 million. It was the lowest total since December 2008. Analysts polled by Thomson Financial expected a much smaller drop

The number of first-time claims fell by 3,000 to a seasonally adjusted 456,000. New claims have been stuck at 450,000 since the beginning of the year.

Add to that, this:

Economic picture rosiest yet, Fed says

All regions improve for first time since 2007

Thursday, June 10, 2010

For the first time since before the onset of the recession in December 2007, economic conditions have improved over the past eight weeks across all 12 regions tracked by the Federal Reserve, according to a report issued Wednesday by the central bank.

Although many of the districts described the pace of growth as "modest," it is nonetheless a promising sign that, although the nation's economic recovery is slow, it is still on track.

The Fed survey known as the Beige Book is based on information collected from the Fed's 12 regional banks on or before May 28 and is largely an anecdotal compilation of economic data from each district.

Nationally, he said, gross domestic product is growing in a moderate or half-speed mode, and he expects that to continue through the remainder of this year.

While testifying Wednesday before the House Budget Committee in Washington, D.C., Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke told Congress that the European debt crisis is likely to have only a modest impact on the recovery as long as Wall Street stabilizes.

"The economy ... appears to be on track to continue to expand through this year and next," Mr. Bernanke said.

While it can't be entirely ruled out that the country could slide back into a "double dip" recession, he predicted the "economy will continue to recover at a moderate pace."

Auto dealers reported a moderate improvement, but retailers in the Fourth District -- which includes Western Pennsylvania, Ohio, the northern panhandle of West Virginia and eastern Kentucky -- saw their rate of sales growth slow.

Although reports indicate a better-than-expected rise in freight transport volume, energy production was mixed.

Demand by businesses and consumers for new loans remains weak, the report said, while some bankers commented that the lending environment is starting to grow more competitive.

There was a broad-based pickup in employment in the manufacturing sector, where businesses are recalling workers and increasing production hours. Staffing firm representatives had mixed reports on the number of new job openings, with opportunities concentrated in the health care field.

But don't expect any credit from the anti-Obama people who will only continue with their gloom & doom.

Edited June 10, 201016 yr by Cleo's Mom

So, are we saying we had NO job growth at all? This month we got the report that we added 400K of census jobs and 41K of private jobs, but what about the previous months of jobs? Those are census jobs as well? So from here on out, the jobs report will be recording census jobs? I am trying to understand the point of making a big deal out of census jobs, when they are jobs? If next month they come out with less than 41k in private jobs then we have something to talk about. As of now, everybody who understand the job report understands that census jobs would be in this report and is not a pattern or trend to a downward spiral. What is needed is another stimulus to get us through another dip.

Because they are only TEMPORARY jobs, that last less than 2 months time. Then all those people will be unemployed again. Also, the big deal is the wage per hour they are paying these people who don't even need an education to partake. $19.50 an hour!!!! That's right! $19.50 an hour!!! PLUS mileage!!! When the government is running the show, it's gotta be extravagant!!!

Associated Press:

The tally of laid-off workers continuing to claim jobless benefits fell by the largest amount in almost a year, suggesting that more unemployed workers may be finding work.

At the same time, new claims for unemployment insurance dipped slightly for the third straight week.

The Dept of Labor says the total unemployment benefit rolls fell by 255,000 to a seasonally adjusted 4.5 million. It was the lowest total since December 2008. Analysts polled by Thomson Financial expected a much smaller drop

The number of first-time claims fell by 3,000 to a seasonally adjusted 456,000. New claims have been stuck at 450,000 since the beginning of the year.

People who were on unemployment a while back are no longer eligible to recieve payments, therefore, they are still unemployed, just not collecting anything anymore. Those unemployment roles are false. They only report those that are unemployed and recieving benefits, not those who are unemployed and not recieving benefits any longer. My son was getting unemployment and he hasn't found a job yet. Even though the funds are gone as of 6 weeks ago. He had to move back home.

Because they are only TEMPORARY jobs, that last less than 2 months time. Then all those people will be unemployed again. Also, the big deal is the wage per hour they are paying these people who don't even need an education to partake. $19.50 an hour!!!! That's right! $19.50 an hour!!! PLUS mileage!!! When the government is running the show, it's gotta be extravagant!!!

So what that they're temporary? They still pay taxes and use their paychecks to buy things which is good for the economy. That's what moves the economy - when people buy things. And the jobs that weren't census were permanent private sector jobs - again pointing out that even if it's only 1 job in the plus column it is better than a negative loss, and it was more than one job and it was the 4th straight month of positive job growth. For people who understand the economy, that is a good indicator.

So what that they're temporary? :frown: They still pay taxes and use their paychecks to buy things which is good for the economy. That's what moves the economy - when people buy things. And the jobs that weren't census were permanent private sector jobs - again pointing out that even if it's only 1 job in the plus column it is better than a negative loss, and it was more than one job and it was the 4th straight month of positive job growth. For people who understand the economy, that is a good indicator.

Nice try. But, when the jobs end in another month, we'll be right back where we were. You can't count jobs that will only last for 2 months as a gain in jobs that will help the people get out of joblessness. And then take credit for job increases due to the stimulus money spent. NO! The job increases was due to the fact that we hired Temporary census workers, not the stimulus outrageous spending!

What about the fact that the government is paying these people twice as much as is needed? Yopu have not addressed this. But of course, you are probably in favor of it. You will find a reason to say that this extravagance is okay. Your government can do no wrong.

Nice try. But, when the jobs end in another month, we'll be right back where we were. You can't count jobs that will only last for 2 months as a gain in jobs that will help the people get out of joblessness. And then take credit for job increases due to the stimulus money spent. NO! The job increases was due to the fact that we hired Temporary census workers, not the stimulus outrageous spending!

What about the fact that the government is paying these people twice as much as is needed? Yopu have not addressed this. But of course, you are probably in favor of it. You will find a reason to say that this extravagance is okay. Your government can do no wrong.:frown:

Well, while you continue to be Debbie Downer :sad: , I will just continue to post the facts.

The vast majority of May's new jobs (411,000, or 95%) were temporary Census jobs that will disappear over the summer. Adding a mere 41,000 jobs, the private sector saw slower growth than it had in the prior three months, when the average was 146,000 a month. This May's modest gain in the private sector was a huge improvement over the loss of 334,000 private sector jobs in May 2009, but it is nowhere near a level that will put this country's 15 million unemployed workers back to work anytime soon.

41,000 jobs is 41,000 jobs and it's still in the plus column as opposed to all the job losses that occured before Pres. Obama's economic agenda. And I'm pretty sure those 41,000 are happy to have jobs, not to mention those who didn't lose their jobs.

"Our nation's unemployment rate is hovering near 10% not because of record job losses, as Biden suggests, but because of record job non-creation. Private sector employers have gone on strike. Contrary to what the President's economic wizards and New York Times columnists believe, massive government deficit spending does not stimulate job creation. President Obama does not have a secret vault of money he can just throw at the American people. The resources the government spends come from the economy. When the government increases spending, it crowds out the resources that business owners could have invested in their enterprises. Private investment falls sharply when government spending rises." Conn Carroll

"Our nation's unemployment rate is hovering near 10% not because of record job losses, as Biden suggests, but because of record job non-creation. Private sector employers have gone on strike.To save money and increase profits, businesses have laid off workers and increased the workload of remaining employees. This is reflected in the increase in GNP. Contrary to what the President's economic wizards and New York Times columnists believe, massive government deficit spending does not stimulate job creation. President Obama does not have a secret vault of money he can just throw at the American people. The resources the government spends come from the economy. When the government increases spending, it crowds out the resources Exactly what resources are these businesses referring to? I'll tell you what - it's government subsidies. So, they want a direct handout from the government as opposed to the government putting the money into the general economy. that business owners could have invested in their enterprises. Private investment falls sharply when government spending rises." Conn Carroll

So, it's still government spending, but the private businesses want it to go directly to them. They want government involvement when they have their hands out, otherwise, they don't.

Originally Posted by pattygreen

"Our nation's unemployment rate is hovering near 10% not because of record job losses, as Biden suggests, but because of record job non-creation. Private sector employers have gone on strike.To save money and increase profits, businesses have laid off workers and increased the workload of remaining employees. This is reflected in the increase in GNP. Contrary to what the President's economic wizards and New York Times columnists believe, massive government deficit spending does not stimulate job creation. President Obama does not have a secret vault of money he can just throw at the American people. The resources MONEY the government spends come from the economy. When the government increases spending, it crowds out the resources Exactly what resources are these businesses referring to? I'll tell you what - it's government subsidies. So, they want a direct handout from the government as opposed to the government putting the money into the general economy.

No. The resources they are refering to are things like new employees that they could have hired, or they could have spent their money on anything at all that they felt would have grown their business, like advertising, or a new product to sell, etc. But because the government was spending soooooo much of the peoples money dishing it out frivilously to "stimulte" things, they couldn't do that.

The money Obama spent "stimulating" the economy came from somewhere. Oh, yeah, the businessmans pocket.

that business owners could have invested in their enterprises. Private investment falls sharply when government spending rises." Conn Carroll

Originally Posted by pattygreen

"Our nation's unemployment rate is hovering near 10% not because of record job losses, as Biden suggests, but because of record job non-creation. Private sector employers have gone on strike.To save money and increase profits, businesses have laid off workers and increased the workload of remaining employees. This is reflected in the increase in GNP. Contrary to what the President's economic wizards and New York Times columnists believe, massive government deficit spending does not stimulate job creation. President Obama does not have a secret vault of money he can just throw at the American people. The resources MONEY the government spends come from the economy. When the government increases spending, it crowds out the resources Exactly what resources are these businesses referring to? I'll tell you what - it's government subsidies. So, they want a direct handout from the government as opposed to the government putting the money into the general economy.

No. The resources they are refering to are things like new employees that they could have hired,How does the stimulus prevent them from hiring? Do they want the government to pay directly for their new employees? or they could have spent their money on anything at all that they felt would have grown their business, like advertising, or a new product to sell, etc. But because the government was spending soooooo much of the peoples money the government wasn't spending the people's money - it was borrowed money. dishing it out frivilously to "stimulte" things, they couldn't do that.

The money Obama spent "stimulating" the economy came from somewhere. Oh, yeah, the businessmans pocket.

that business owners could have invested in their enterprises. Private investment falls sharply when government spending rises." Conn Carroll

You'll have to be very specific in explaining how the money that the government spent on the stimulus came from the businesses pockets, unless they mean that it was less direct GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES for them. That's what they really want - they don't mind government spending as long as it goes directly to them. :frown:

They aren't hiring because there is less demand for their products or services and that is because of the unemployment rate and because the middle class has less buying power due to net wage loss.

When you think about ways to tame the nation's long-term deficit, what's the first thing that comes to mind? Slashing benefits for the old and sick? :frown: Or taking a few whacks at the spectacularly bloated defense budget?

The former option has, somehow, become the default position for Washington's ruling class, including President Obama's deficit commission.

But in April, a bipartisan group of iconoclasts in Congress led by Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.) formed their own task force to examine the latter possibility. The group of defense experts released their report on Friday, identifying nearly $1 trillion in defense budget cuts over the next 10 years that could contribute to deficit reduction "while not compromising the essential security of the United States."

Among the possible reductions cited in the report:

• Over $113 billion in savings by reducing the U.S. nuclear arsenal to 1,050 total warheads deployed on 450 land-based missiles and seven Ohio-class submarines; • Over $200 billion in savings by reducing U.S. routine military presence in Europe and Asia to 100,000 while reducing total uniformed military personnel to 1.3 million;

• Over $138 billion in savings by replacing costly and unworkable weapons systems with more practical, affordable alternatives. Suggested cuts would include the F-35 combat aircraft, the MV-22 Osprey, and the Expeditionary Fighting Vehicle.

• Over $60 billion in savings by reforming military health care; and

• Over $100 billion in savings by cutting unnecessary command, support and infrastructure funding.

Deficit hawkery appears to be overwhelming official Washington, despite the fact that the lackluster economy is sending clear signals even to the likes of non-radical Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke that the last thing the nation needs right now is government spending cuts.

Even so, the defense budget seems off limits. Despite some lip service from the deficit commission, there is no serious indication that the requisite 14 of the group's 18 members will agree on anything that would involve defense cuts.

Now, these are budget cuts that I can support, but of course it's a lot easier to pick on the least among us who don't have a voice (lobbyists) while the defense contractors have thousands of lobbyists making sure they continue to get those government contracts.

Stimulus projects and census jobs put people to work. Those people spend their paychecks on goods and services so the money goes directly to businesses. Businesses make more money and start hiring again. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Deficit spenders: In February, President Obama created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform to develop a plan to stabilize the $13 trillion national debt and reduce federal borrowing. The committee's real purpose, of course, is to give him political cover for the gigantic tax increases coming after this year's elections so Democrats can continue to preserve unionized government jobs at all levels and grow the government as they take America further down the road to socialism. Now comes word that the commission is running a deficit, and is demanding the president vastly expand its staff (hire more unionized government workers) and increase its budget from $500,000 to something on the order of $8 million so it can do a proper job of putting the screws to taxpayers. For its profligacy and fecklessness, the commission won the Someone Left the Irony On Award from the HotAir.com blog.

Hot Air

This is so typical of liberals. It seems they actually LOOK for a stupid reason to cry "racists!" I listened to the cards full content and heard black holes, not black hores. The card is all about the solar systems and being able to conquer the universe as a graduate.

Deficit spenders: In February, President Obama created the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform to develop a plan to stabilize the $13 trillion national debt and reduce federal borrowing. The committee's real purpose, of course, is to give him political cover for the gigantic tax increases coming after this year's elections so Democrats can continue to preserve unionized government jobs at all levels and grow the government as they take America further down the road to socialism.Yeah, it's all part of Pres. Obama's sinister plot. I heard he was secretly meeting with unemployed ACORN workers, Fidel Castro, all his chicago friends, etc.. all to turn the country into a big socialist, monarchy, muslim country. Now comes word that the commission is running a deficit, and is demanding the president vastly expand its staff (hire more unionized government workers) and increase its budget from $500,000 to something on the order of $8 million so it can do a proper job of putting the screws to taxpayers. For its profligacy and fecklessness, the commission won the Someone Left the Irony On Award from the HotAir.com blog.

The National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, which the president created through an executive order in February, is charged with developing a plan by December 1 that would stabilize the budget deficit by 2015 and reduce the federal debt over the long term. The group is widely expected to consider a combination of tax reforms and spending cuts.

But despite the weighty demands, the panel has only a fraction of the staff and budget of standing congressional committees. The panel’s own cochairs and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., have criticized the meager resources and called for more support. …

According to fiscal commission staffers, there are 10 to 15 people who work for the commission, including two full-time employees, interns, employees “borrowed”from other agencies such as the Office of Management and Budget and the Treasury Department, and special government employees, who are expected to work no more than 130 days in a calendar year. The number of workers will likely grow to around 20 by midsummer.

The White House has set aside the resources to provide the equivalent of four full-time salaries and $500,000 in operating costs for the commission, fiscal commission Executive Director Bruce Reed told Tax Analysts.