I am probably going to open a whole new can worms here. I might regret opening later, but some of the topics being discussed really got me thinking about things. One of the things said that really kind of got me going on this was:

Pattygreen: Christians (usually conservative republicans) for the most part try to live moral, virtuous, nonsinful lives.

I am not a Christian and I live a moral, virtuous, and for the most part nonsinful life. I know several people who live the same, and are not Christian, and have conservative beliefs.

Cleo's Mom: First of all, "conservative republican" is redundant, because they are all conservative. I don't think there are any moderate republicans left particularly among those elected to office.

However, I just wonder if it is MORAL to mislead or outright lie, because listen to what these conservative republicans have said:

Dana Perino said on Fox: We did not have a domestic attack during bush's administration.

A month later Mary Matalin said: bush inherited 9/11 from Clinton.

Yesterday, Rudy Giuliani said that we never had a domestic attack under bush but we had one under Obama.

Now, I ask you - do these people think the American public is really that stupid? Apparently. Those on the right just make things up and keep repeating it. And when they repeat it often enough eventually some people begin to believe it.

They reduce things to some emotional, hate filled sound bite: death panels, obamacare, socialism, hitler, nazi.

This is because they are unable to engage in meaningful, intelligent, fact-based discussions. Maybe they don't want to do that because they don't have the facts on their side.

First I am a moderate Republican. I do tend to lean a little more to the right, but on some issues I lean to the left. Some things I can lean pretty right, and others I lean pretty far left. It really depends on the issue. I'd like to think that would make me moderate. I know many people who are moderate Republicans also. So we are still out there. There are some politicians who are still moderate also.

Second just because you are a Republican does not mean that you can not have a intelligent, meaningful, fact-based conversation. That is like saying liberals have their heads in clouds and live in fantasy nerf world filled with rainbows and butterflies.

Both sides sling mud back and forth. Both sides have their hate filled idiots. Both sides have their good and bad points. Both sides LIE, LIE, and LIE some more.

I get so sick and tired of hearing about how the Republicans have screwed everything up...I mean really they did it all alone.....no help from the left at all???

I personally feel that if you lean too far left or right you can't have a very grip on reality, and when our politicans lean too far left or right it's not good for our country either way. I hope someday too see more moderate politicans in office.

Somehow, I can see you at Walmart.

PG,

There you go bashing the government for governments sake. You would rather the government do nothing. There is your argument, good going. Fake argument, fake outrage ,fake, fake, fake.

When people show you who they are, believe them. I believe you PG.

The extent that you will go to to defend wall street, big business, the insurance industry and big corporations astounds me! Government contracts are complex things. They don't have some government guy who goes to Walmart to buy things. What an incredibly stupid thing to say. The government has a project with specs and contracts bid on this. There are sets of rules for how the contracts are awarded. It usually is the lowest bidder but not always.

And I will blame the person who charges that much, because they only do it to the government who they figure just uses taxpayer money. No big deal. Cheney awarded the Iraq contract to his buddies at Halliburton and I'm still waiting for an accounting of the $18 billion unaccounted for. A tad more than a $68 screw.

YES!!! You DO blame the person who buys the product!!!!!! If you go to Stop and shop and purchase a gallon of milk for $4.39 and you pay more than going to Aldi's where you can get it for $2.29, then YOU are the idiot! Not the store who sold it to you. Yes, they have their nerve to charge you twice as much as the next store, so they are not being very noble, but YOU would be the idiot who bought it, so only YOU can be blamed for your stupidity.

Now, if the government refused to go into contract with anyone who would charge such outrageous prices, then they could get someone who would be fair in their prices. If there are "rules" set about how contracts are stated, then the government needs to change them. The government just doesn't give a crap, cause it's not their money they are dishing out. The private company doesn't give a crap either about charging sooo much to the government because it's not the governments money. This is true, but we can't control what other people do, we can (or should be able to) only control what WE do with our funds. This is why the government should not be in business. Only people who are invested in their business look out for their end profit or product. The government doesn't care about how the money is spent cause it's not coming out of their pocket. This is carried out on a grand scale with all of the government programs, and when put all together add up to enormous waste. The government is TOO big. It must be scaled down, or we will drown soon.

Patty says.. Only people who are invested in their business look out for their end profit or product.

Like the people at Enron? People in business look out for thier own self interests, not what is best for the business. This is why we need regulation.

Patty says.. Only people who are invested in their business look out for their end profit or product.

Like the people at Enron? People in business look out for thier own self interests, not what is best for the business. This is why we need regulation.

Yes, ANY business. When you make laws that affect Businesses like Enron, they also effect smaller business and that could mean going OUT of business for them.

Regulate, baby, regulate. We are living the disasterous results of an unregulated wall street, where "greed is good"- where the profits are private (theirs) and the loses are public (taxpayers).

Regulate, baby, regulate. We are living the disasterous results of an unregulated wall street, where "greed is good"- where the profits are private (theirs) and the loses are public (taxpayers).

What part of the constitution or bill of rights or any other document our founders put together for us says it's the governments duty to regulate anything?

What part of the constitution or bill of rights or any other document our founders put together for us says it's the governments duty to regulate anything?

The government has the right to regulate commerce. Plus these corporations have their hands out (lobbyists) for all kinds of corporate welfare. So if our tax money is used in any way to help them, then that gives us taxpayers the right to regulate.

The government has the right to regulate commerce. Plus these corporations have their hands out (lobbyists) for all kinds of corporate welfare. So if our tax money is used in any way to help them, then that gives us taxpayers the right to regulate.

What part of the constitution or bill of rights or any other document our founders put together for us says it's the governments duty to regulate anything?

What part of the constitution or bill of rights or any other document our founders put together for us says it's the governments duty to regulate anything?

The same part that says that corporations can receive government handouts (corporate welfare, tax breaks and bailouts).

I'll post this again, maybe you can come up with an answer:

What part of the constitution or bill of rights or any other document our founders put together for us says it's the governments duty to regulate anything?

I'll post this again, maybe you can come up with an answer:

What part of the constitution or bill of rights or any other document our founders put together for us says it's the governments duty to regulate anything?

Section 8

The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

I have an idea. Why don't people who don't want regulation go live where there is no regulation. That would solve a lot of problems. People who get mad at the government to the point where they want to kill police and overthrow their government should have that choice to not have clean water and built roads and little recourse in the courts.

patty: "The extent you will go to defend your government astounds me!"

The extent you will go to defend greed and corruption astounds me!

Section 8

The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

general welfare=regulation?